P&O are still aiming for May cruises to go ahead ???

[bee-ess]

I have read on other CV related threads that P&O are not refunding pre-booked items such as excursions and speciality restaurants - I thought that terms were that these items were refundable if cancelled before 2/3 days before the event. Now they are giving OBC - what use is that if you are taking a refund,

 

Do they have no clue how to treat their customers ?

[grapau27]

6 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

I have read on other CV related threads that P&O are not refunding pre-booked items such as excursions and speciality restaurants - I thought that terms were that these items were refundable if cancelled before 2/3 days before the event. Now they are giving OBC - what use is that if you are taking a refund,

 

Do they have no clue how to treat their customers ?

Now is the time for P&O to show leadership and a commitment to their passengers.

[Eglesbrech]

38 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

As and when P&O cancels any cruises that I am booked on , I expect a full refund within 14 days. I am not prepared to take a high risk stake in P&O’s future by way of FCC or a 2 year delay on a refund. Others may be happy to do that. I am not. The fact that P&O isn’t honouring their own terms and conditions or current law does not encourage me to lend them my support, either verbally or financially. 

I agree. The law has not changed (as yet) so yes I also expect and will pursue my full refund within 14 days of cancellation, as per the contract with P&O.

 

Unless they change how they are handling things, as per some of the good suggestions made further back, then I will  not be paying the balance on my next cruise and while I will lose my deposit I’m happy with that in preference to having thousands tied up in a FCC that I may not be able to use.

 

The additional 10% / 25% boost to the FCC also seems worthless as the prices are going up by much more than that.

 

 

 

 

[Pine Man]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

The additional 10% / 25% boost to the FCC also seems worthless as the prices are going up by much more than that.

 

But......on the basis that you are intending to go on a future cruise, and P&O survive, you are better off, financially, with FCC rather than a refund. Just an observation😉

[Selbourne]

23 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

I have read on other CV related threads that P&O are not refunding pre-booked items such as excursions and speciality restaurants - I thought that terms were that these items were refundable if cancelled before 2/3 days before the event. Now they are giving OBC - what use is that if you are taking a refund,

 

Do they have no clue how to treat their customers ?

I have been attempting to get a refund for the Select Dining reservations that we made for the Iona Maiden cruise. Technically, this cruise is still going ahead, although we all know that it won’t, hence my desire to get my money back. P&O’s T’s and C’s allow you to cancel such bookings up to 2 days in advance of the booking and receive a refund. There is nothing on my cruise personaliser saying that they have changed the rules and it now has to be OBC. The message states;

 

We are currently experiencing a technical difficulty with order cancellations, so you will not be able to cancel at this time. Please do not call the Contact Centre as they are currently unable to assist with this. We are fixing this as quickly as possible and apologise for any inconvenience caused.

 

This message has now been there for at least 2 weeks and is yet another example of P&O’s current lies and deceit. Anything is possible! 

[wowzz]

Totally agree with all the above comments regarding the inept way that P&O are handling the current situation. It is as if they are deliberately trying to antagonise existing customers,  whereby a more sympathetic,  flexible attitude would cost them very little from a cash point of view, and indeed might even encourage people to make new bookings. 

Given P&O's current attitude, I think that anyone booking a cruise with them departing in the next 12 months need their heads examining !

It's interesting to compare how P&O are dealing with this situation compared to hotel chains such as Hilton. They are saying that if you have a room booked, regardless of the t&c's of the booking (non changeable,  non refundable etc) you can get a full refund.  That is how you build customers loyalty for the future. 

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, Pine Man said:

 

But......on the basis that you are intending to go on a future cruise, and P&O survive, you are better off, financially, with FCC rather than a refund. Just an observation😉

But you are tied into P&O by taking the FCC. I'd rather have the cash and make my own decision as to which cruise line to use.

[Eglesbrech]

10 minutes ago, Pine Man said:

 

But......on the basis that you are intending to go on a future cruise, and P&O survive, you are better off, financially, with FCC rather than a refund. Just an observation😉

But I’m not sure if I will (or can insurance dependant). Cash is acceptable for any type of holiday. 
 

Everyone needs to do what best suits their future needs. 

[AndyMichelle]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Without wishing to fall out with members who I have enjoyed productive conversations with over many years, I really don’t agree with the sentiments that because other people have it far worse then we should be grateful for whatever scraps P&O throw our way. I just don’t follow that logic at all as the issues are completely unrelated IMO. Yes, cruises are the ultimate discretionary spend, and were not booked using money that we needed to live on when originally booked, but times are completely different now. Some things to consider;

 

1) Many people have either lost jobs, lost a proportion of their income, had overtime cut or removed altogether, lost money that they were relying on to fund retirement etc etc. Money that was ‘discretionary’ a matter of months ago might be essential just to live on now, so P&O holding on to it is causing these people enormous anxiety and worry. 
 

2) Whether due to future difficulty getting insurance because of age / underlying health conditions, or P&O’s poor handling of this situation (putting customers last, in spite of Paul Ludlow's assurances to the contrary), many people will not be able, or even want, to go on a future P&O cruise, so FCC is completely worthless to them. It is completely unreasonable to expect these customers to wait 2 years to get their money back.
 

3) For the same reason as above, allowing FCC to be used against future (already booked) cruises will only work for some people (a greater proportion on here than the general population, I would suggest).

 

4) Owners and shareholders, by definition, bear the financial risk of a company and have chosen to do so by investing. Customers, on the other hand, entered into a contract for a product or service. They did not do so with a caveat that if the company ran into difficulty then their money could be held ransom to prop the company’s cash flow up. The fact that other cruise companies and wider travel companies are doing the same is interesting but doesn’t in any way justify it. ABTA has made a recommendation that is not yet enshrined in law, yet travel companies (inc P&O) are taking it as if it is now the law. It isn’t. 
 

5) P&O’s decision to arbitrarily change their terms and conditions at will adds to the uncertainty that people might not get their money back. FCC is worthless if the company goes under. Customers go to the back of the queue in these scenarios and will get nothing. 
 

6) Those accepting of the current position and expressing support, either through taking the perceived moral high ground or because they can afford to, are making it far more difficult for those who don’t accept that argument, or can’t afford to, to get their hard earned money back. 

As and when P&O cancels any cruises that I am booked on , I expect a full refund within 14 days. I am not prepared to take a high risk stake in P&O’s future by way of FCC or a 2 year delay on a refund. Others may be happy to do that. I am not. The fact that P&O isn’t honouring their own terms and conditions or current law does not encourage me to lend them my support, either verbally or financially. 

 

Sorry, didn't mean to upset anyone, was just trying to see the other perspective... 

Andy 

[Broadside]

4 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

There is a big difference between 'want' and 'need'... 

ABTA are effectively telling the government that they can't afford to bail out all these travel companies, so obviously are advising them to hold on to as much money as possible.. 

Horrible for all of us on the end of it, but this was not planned or bad management... 

As I keep saying, everybody will suffer, it ain't gonna be pretty... 

Andy 

 

ABTA are not allowed to break contract Law because they "need" Money

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, Broadside said:

 

ABTA are not allowed to break contract Law because they "need" Money

That is probably true, but if ABTA are now skint after bailing out Thomas Cook, then I imagine they will have to withdraw their promise to bail out any future failure, and where does that leave travel companies and their customers?

[Selbourne]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

That is probably true, but if ABTA are now skint after bailing out Thomas Cook, then I imagine they will have to withdraw their promise to bail out any future failure, and where does that leave travel companies and their customers?

I believe that I read in the press that if ABTA fails then the government has to fulfil their obligations. Obviously that means us, as tax payers, but at least it will be an even spread (as per all the other measures) rather than big hits for individuals. 

[terrierjohn]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

That is probably true, but if ABTA are now skint after bailing out Thomas Cook, then I imagine they will have to withdraw their promise to bail out any future failure, and where does that leave travel companies and their customers?

One further point that I dont believe I have seen discussed in detail yet, what about force majeure?  I suspect that travel companies could use this to avoid the package travel legislation since they have had to cancel cruises because of govt instructions, rather because of their own problems.

As Andy and I have kept stressing, we are all in this together and continually thinking only about our own issues is never going to result in a satisfactory outcome; and I would include P&O management in that criticism.

[terrierjohn]

7 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I believe that I read in the press that if ABTA fails then the government has to fulfil their obligations. Obviously that means us, as tax payers, but at least it will be an even spread (as per all the other measures) rather than big hits for individuals. 

ABTA only undertake to cover failures of members, I doubt you would have a successful claim against them, or the govt, for a company not complying with legislation, and we have not had a force majeure discussion yet.

[wowzz]

44 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Sorry, didn't mean to upset anyone, was just trying to see the other perspective... 

Andy 

Andy

Not sure that anyone should feel upset by your thoughts, which I thought were fair and considered.

One thought strikes me - is the travel industry the only business that demands full payment in advance ?  I know many businesses will want some form of payment in advance, but to demand 100% payment 12 or so weeks in advance with no possibility of a refund in the event of a cancellation, does strike me as a very one sided contract. I know it can be argued that a holiday cannot be re-sold, but you can also argue that a fitted kitchen, for example, is of no use to anyone else, but you do not pay 100% of the price in advance for it. 

[Josy1953]

P&O are going to have to change the way that they treat their customers whether in the current situation or when dealing with problems wherever they happen otherwise they will have none. 

[Josy1953]

Just now, wowzz said:

Andy

Not sure that anyone should feel upset by your thoughts, which I thought were fair and considered.

One thought strikes me - is the travel industry the only business that demands full payment in advance ?  I know many businesses will want some form of payment in advance, but to demand 100% payment 12 or so weeks in advance with no possibility of a refund in the event of a cancellation, does strike me as a very one sided contract. I know it can be argued that a holiday cannot be re-sold, but you can also argue that a fitted kitchen, for example, is of no use to anyone else, but you do not pay 100% of the price in advance for it. 

A holiday can and often is resold if the original person cancels.  We used to live next door to a TA and she said that many of the late bargains come about because of cancellations.

[AJ28]

I am still waiting to hear that P&O has cancelled my cruise on 12 April, in 16 days.  I regret having to cancel but for me there is no other option at this time. I am now extremely reluctant to book future cruises (or other holidays) in advance in future (maybe with a month's notice).

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, AJ28 said:

I am still waiting to hear that P&O has cancelled my cruise on 12 April, in 16 days.  I regret having to cancel but for me there is no other option at this time. I am now extremely reluctant to book future cruises (or other holidays) in advance in future (maybe with a month's notice).

I hope you yourself are not going to cancel. If you do so, you will lose everything. Wait for P&O to cancel which they will do so shortly [I am booked on the same cruise] - we should then get a full refund - unless P&O weasel out of their legal obligations. 

[AndyMichelle]

When this started, the first thing my accountant told me was to cancel the next day's payment run.. 

I refused, saying we could afford the payments. 

He explained that nobody knows how this will affect any of us and I should prepare for no income indefinitely.. 

I paid to keep the trust I have taken years to build, he called me foolish... 

I guess P&O have been having similar conversations but have taken the advice to 'stuff' their customers... 

I hope they are the fools and not me... 

Andy 

[Broadside]

Just now, terrierjohn said:

That is probably true, but if ABTA are now skint after bailing out Thomas Cook, then I imagine they will have to withdraw their promise to bail out any future failure, and where does that leave travel companies and their customers?

 

The point is that that ABTA are  right now failing to bail out failure despite their guarentees.

 

 

The future will sort itself out maybe with a pandemic exclusion on cash refunds who knows. 

[AJ28]

Just now, wowzz said:

I hope you yourself are not going to cancel. If you do so, you will lose everything. Wait for P&O to cancel which they will do so shortly [I am booked on the same cruise] - we should then get a full refund - unless P&O weasel out of their legal obligations. 

No intention to cancel, holding fire for the inevitable.  They are leaving it really late...panicking a bit. Did look at cruises for next year but I am so restricted as when I can travel it won't work, sadly.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

When this started, the first thing my accountant told me was to cancel the next day's payment run.. 

I refused, saying we could afford the payments. 

He explained that nobody knows how this will affect any of us and I should prepare for no income indefinitely.. 

I paid to keep the trust I have taken years to build, he called me foolish... 

I guess P&O have been having similar conversations but have taken the advice to 'stuff' their customers... 

I hope they are the fools and not me... 

Andy 

Andy, your customers, suppliers and employees will respect you for years to come because of the way you deal with them. Totally the reverse is true of P&O.

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, AJ28 said:

No intention to cancel, holding fire for the inevitable.  They are leaving it really late...panicking a bit. Did look at cruises for next year but I am so restricted as when I can travel it won't work, sadly.

No need to panic - there is nothing you can do for the moment - wait until P&O cancel, then get cracking to make sure you get your refund [but not until I've got mine!!]

[Broadside]

Just now, AndyMichelle said:

When this started, the first thing my accountant told me was to cancel the next day's payment run.. 

I refused, saying we could afford the payments. 

He explained that nobody knows how this will affect any of us and I should prepare for no income indefinitely.. 

I paid to keep the trust I have taken years to build, he called me foolish... 

I guess P&O have been having similar conversations but have taken the advice to 'stuff' their customers... 

I hope they are the fools and not me... 

Andy 

 

 

 

Where these payments for services already supplied or refunding payments where you have not supplied any service to the customer and they had already paid you in full?