P&O are still aiming for May cruises to go ahead ???

[AndyMichelle]

11 minutes ago, Broadside said:

 

 

 

Where these payments for services already supplied or refunding payments where you have not supplied any service to the customer and they had already paid you in full? 

Various, but the big one was £35,000 for 3 months rent in advance. 

It didn't matter, he was still telling me to hold off all payments until we received the Governments grant/help... 

Completely different to P&O, but my point was I'm sure they are being advised to protect themselves... 

Again, not saying its right, just saying... 

Andy 

[Eglesbrech]

50 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

ABTA only undertake to cover failures of members, I doubt you would have a successful claim against them, or the govt, for a company not complying with legislation, and we have not had a force majeure discussion yet.

Good luck getting customers or indeed suppliers in the future if they go down that particular road.

 

[terrierjohn]

42 minutes ago, Broadside said:

 

The point is that that ABTA are  right now failing to bail out failure despite their guarentees.

 

 

The future will sort itself out maybe with a pandemic exclusion on cash refunds who knows. 

Which failed company are ABTA failing to compensate its customers? 

I don't think the ABTA guarantee covers the current situation where P&O are only providing FCCs and not refunds. But I could be wrong.

[Broadside]

Just now, terrierjohn said:

Which failed company are ABTA failing to compensate its customers? 

I don't think the ABTA guarantee covers the current situation where P&O are only providing FCCs and not refunds. But I could be wrong.

 

I meant ABTA are currently failing to ensure its currently solvent members are processing refunds. ABTA seem happy for their members to quote ABTA guidance as the justification to not refund.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Broadside

[Scriv]

21 hours ago, TheOrient said:

Our cruises and insurance have been booked well in advance of this current situation so we are still covered for coronavirus related claims, as quoted from our insurance -  "If you booked a trip before the 18 March, cover is available for coronavirus related claims for trips in the UK or abroad. This is because you could not have known of the risks when you booked."

We have that cover, but our situation is complicated as OH has to buy the 70's upgrade this summer,  two months before the sailing date  - but one month after balance is due. The policy states they won't cover on any upgrades bought after the 18 March date.. and as over 70s are not supposed to cruise, they will probably say they won't cover it.

 

[grapau27]

3 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

When this started, the first thing my accountant told me was to cancel the next day's payment run.. 

I refused, saying we could afford the payments. 

He explained that nobody knows how this will affect any of us and I should prepare for no income indefinitely.. 

I paid to keep the trust I have taken years to build, he called me foolish... 

I guess P&O have been having similar conversations but have taken the advice to 'stuff' their customers... 

I hope they are the fools and not me... 

Andy 

Well said Andy.

I have spent my 40 years sales life looking after customers and the vast majority have stuck with me with various companies.

[mercury7289]

16 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Well said Andy.

I have spent my 40 years sales life looking after customers and the vast majority have stuck with me with various companies.

I spent my life supporting people like you, who valued our business, and worked with us, to both our betterment.

 

Did not like snake oil salesmen, gave them short shift.

 

Only deal with nice people was my adage.

 

P&O are failing in so many ways, IMHO poor management

[grapau27]

10 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

I spent my life supporting people like you, who valued our business, and worked with us, to both our betterment.

 

Did not like snake oil salesmen, gave them short shift.

 

Only deal with nice people was my adage.

 

P&O are failing in so many ways, IMHO poor management

Thank you.

Customers knew they could trust me as I always put my customers first.

Edited March 27, 2020 by grapau27

[sidekick180]

11 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Without wishing to fall out with members who I have enjoyed productive conversations with over many years, I really don’t agree with the sentiments that because other people have it far worse then we should be grateful for whatever scraps P&O throw our way. I just don’t follow that logic at all as the issues are completely unrelated IMO. Yes, cruises are the ultimate discretionary spend, and were not booked using money that we needed to live on when originally booked, but times are completely different now. Some things to consider;

 

1) Many people have either lost jobs, lost a proportion of their income, had overtime cut or removed altogether, lost money that they were relying on to fund retirement etc etc. Money that was ‘discretionary’ a matter of months ago might be essential just to live on now, so P&O holding on to it is causing these people enormous anxiety and worry. 
 

2) Whether due to future difficulty getting insurance because of age / underlying health conditions, or P&O’s poor handling of this situation (putting customers last, in spite of Paul Ludlow's assurances to the contrary), many people will not be able, or even want, to go on a future P&O cruise, so FCC is completely worthless to them. It is completely unreasonable to expect these customers to wait 2 years to get their money back.
 

3) For the same reason as above, allowing FCC to be used against future (already booked) cruises will only work for some people (a greater proportion on here than the general population, I would suggest).

 

4) Owners and shareholders, by definition, bear the financial risk of a company and have chosen to do so by investing. Customers, on the other hand, entered into a contract for a product or service. They did not do so with a caveat that if the company ran into difficulty then their money could be held ransom to prop the company’s cash flow up. The fact that other cruise companies and wider travel companies are doing the same is interesting but doesn’t in any way justify it. ABTA has made a recommendation that is not yet enshrined in law, yet travel companies (inc P&O) are taking it as if it is now the law. It isn’t. 
 

5) P&O’s decision to arbitrarily change their terms and conditions at will adds to the uncertainty that people might not get their money back. FCC is worthless if the company goes under. Customers go to the back of the queue in these scenarios and will get nothing. 
 

6) Those accepting of the current position and expressing support, either through taking the perceived moral high ground or because they can afford to, are making it far more difficult for those who don’t accept that argument, or can’t afford to, to get their hard earned money back. 

As and when P&O cancels any cruises that I am booked on , I expect a full refund within 14 days. I am not prepared to take a high risk stake in P&O’s future by way of FCC or a 2 year delay on a refund. Others may be happy to do that. I am not. The fact that P&O isn’t honouring their own terms and conditions or current law does not encourage me to lend them my support, either verbally or financially. 

 

I agree totally with all of your points. If my cruise is cancelled, (which I have already fully paid for), they will have broken the contract. Therefore, I would expect a full refund, and within a reasonable time. I am more than happy for them to offer me the OPTION of a FCC, but if I choose to have my money back, then so be it.

[Twogreynomads]

Come back Andy, we need your humour and commonsense especially at this time

[terrierjohn]

18 hours ago, Broadside said:

 

I meant ABTA are currently failing to ensure its currently solvent members are processing refunds. ABTA seem happy for their members to quote ABTA guidance as the justification to not refund.

It is not what customers want to hear but the current situation is leaving most travel companies with major liquidity problems, and ABTA are looking to provide a way to prevent that happening whilst still giving customers some sort of guarantee that they will receive recompense, eventually.

Its a bit like social distancing, we don't like it but it is essential to prevent the spread engulfing the NHS's ability to cope and come out the other side with the least number of deaths. ABTA's plan is similar, in trying to avoid as many failures as possible, so the travel industry is capable of surviving as well.

I would definitely prefer it wasn't happening, but these are not normal times.

[Eddie99]

Simon Calder was interesting on R5 this morning 6.30 - 7.00

find it on BBC Sounds

[Britboys]

38 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

Simon Calder was interesting on R5 this morning 6.30 - 7.00

find it on BBC Sounds

Yes, I caught the end of it.  I'm certainly not defending P&O to any huge degree but thought it interesting that P&O don't sound much out of step with the approach taken by UK Package Holiday Companies.  It seems they have only cancelled up to 16th April so far and that for later holidays they are only offering credit notes.  Also interesting was his general comment about getting refunds for cancelled holidays - that you are legally entitled to them but don't expect it to be quick or easy...

[wowzz]

54 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Yes, I caught the end of it.  I'm certainly not defending P&O to any huge degree but thought it interesting that P&O don't sound much out of step with the approach taken by UK Package Holiday Companies.  It seems they have only cancelled up to 16th April so far and that for later holidays they are only offering credit notes.  Also interesting was his general comment about getting refunds for cancelled holidays - that you are legally entitled to them but don't expect it to be quick or easy...

P&O gave only cancelled up to April 11th so far. We are meant to be going on April 12th, so are somewhat invested in the policy regarding cancellation.  

[jeanlyon]

This is on this site - stumbled on it while searching

 

"Carnival will deny boarding to all guests 70 years of age or older unless they have a letter from their physician confirming they are fit to sail. Additionally, all guests will be asked if they have been hospitalized in the past two months for or if they have a history of chronic or severe medical conditions. The CDC defines chronic conditions as an illness persisting for a long time or constantly recurring, such as diabetes, heart, kidney or lung disease. Additional severe medical conditions include: suppressed immunity (active cancer, taking steroids) or if the person requires oxygen for any reason. Guests with chronic or severe medical conditions will not be allowed to sail.

Edited March 28, 2020 by jeanlyon

[terrierjohn]

19 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

This is on this site - stumbled on it while searching

 

"Carnival will deny boarding to all guests 70 years of age or older unless they have a letter from their physician confirming they are fit to sail. Additionally, all guests will be asked if they have been hospitalized in the past two months for or if they have a history of chronic or severe medical conditions. The CDC defines chronic conditions as an illness persisting for a long time or constantly recurring, such as diabetes, heart, kidney or lung disease. Additional severe medical conditions include: suppressed immunity (active cancer, taking steroids) or if the person requires oxygen for any reason. Guests with chronic or severe medical conditions will not be allowed to sail.

Probably out of date now Jean, since they are not cruising, I assume it will be reviewed on they restart.

[Windsurfboy]

On 3/27/2020 at 11:09 AM, Selbourne said:

Without wishing to fall out with members who I have enjoyed productive conversations with over many years, I really don’t agree with the sentiments that because other people have it far worse then we should be grateful for whatever scraps P&O throw our way. I just don’t follow that logic at all as the issues are completely unrelated IMO. Yes, cruises are the ultimate discretionary spend, and were not booked using money that we needed to live on when originally booked, but times are completely different now. Some things to consider;

 

1) Many people have either lost jobs, lost a proportion of their income, had overtime cut or removed altogether, lost money that they were relying on to fund retirement etc etc. Money that was ‘discretionary’ a matter of months ago might be essential just to live on now, so P&O holding on to it is causing these people enormous anxiety and worry. 
 

2) Whether due to future difficulty getting insurance because of age / underlying health conditions, or P&O’s poor handling of this situation (putting customers last, in spite of Paul Ludlow's assurances to the contrary), many people will not be able, or even want, to go on a future P&O cruise, so FCC is completely worthless to them. It is completely unreasonable to expect these customers to wait 2 years to get their money back.
 

3) For the same reason as above, allowing FCC to be used against future (already booked) cruises will only work for some people (a greater proportion on here than the general population, I would suggest).

 

4) Owners and shareholders, by definition, bear the financial risk of a company and have chosen to do so by investing. Customers, on the other hand, entered into a contract for a product or service. They did not do so with a caveat that if the company ran into difficulty then their money could be held ransom to prop the company’s cash flow up. The fact that other cruise companies and wider travel companies are doing the same is interesting but doesn’t in any way justify it. ABTA has made a recommendation that is not yet enshrined in law, yet travel companies (inc P&O) are taking it as if it is now the law. It isn’t. 
 

5) P&O’s decision to arbitrarily change their terms and conditions at will adds to the uncertainty that people might not get their money back. FCC is worthless if the company goes under. Customers go to the back of the queue in these scenarios and will get nothing. 
 

6) Those accepting of the current position and expressing support, either through taking the perceived moral high ground or because they can afford to, are making it far more difficult for those who don’t accept that argument, or can’t afford to, to get their hard earned money back. 

As and when P&O cancels any cruises that I am booked on , I expect a full refund within 14 days. I am not prepared to take a high risk stake in P&O’s future by way of FCC or a 2 year delay on a refund. Others may be happy to do that. I am not. The fact that P&O isn’t honouring their own terms and conditions or current law does not encourage me to lend them my support, either verbally or financially. 

 

 

100% agree with Selbourne,  but even if we get a full refund doubt if it will be in 14days. I have yet to have my P&O cruise cancelled but my April 1st Cunard cruise said it would take 45 days for the refund.  Hope P&O have the money when the time comes to cancel my June cruise

[jeanlyon]

Yes, but I am sure it will stay after cruising starts again.  I am awaiting my refund, it's 13 days, but I don't expect it for another 30.

Edited March 28, 2020 by jeanlyon

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

P&O gave only cancelled up to April 11th so far. We are meant to be going on April 12th, so are somewhat invested in the policy regarding cancellation.  

Yes, and I do realise how terribly frustrating that is for you.  I guess I was just trying to make a point that (with that only being 5 days different to what everyone else is doing), they are in general not much different to any other travel company providing packages.  It just feels that reading a couple of threads on here at the moment, it would be easy to imagine that P&O are treating their customers in a much more shoddy manner than any other travel package company, when maybe they are perhaps no worse and no better than many others... 

[Selbourne]

37 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

100% agree with Selbourne,  but even if we get a full refund doubt if it will be in 14days. I have yet to have my P&O cruise cancelled but my April 1st Cunard cruise said it would take 45 days for the refund.  Hope P&O have the money when the time comes to cancel my June cruise

Thanks. Although the refund should be within 14 days, as they are dealing with an unprecedented level of refunds, I can live with it being a bit longer, as long as I have received written confirmation that I will get it! Our next cruise is the Iona Maiden on 14th May, but  I am fully expecting P&O to announce on Monday that the next batch of cruises to be cancelled will be those up to 13th May, as they won’t want the press coverage on their new flagship (which they are still promoting in adverts) until they absolutely have to! Hope that I am wrong and they announce cancellations beyond that date, but I fear that they aren't coping even with 4 week batches of cancellations at present. 

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Yes, and I do realise how terribly frustrating that is for you.  I guess I was just trying to make a point that (with that only being 5 days different to what everyone else is doing), they are in general not much different to any other travel company providing packages.  It just feels that reading a couple of threads on here at the moment, it would be easy to imagine that P&O are treating their customers in a much more shoddy manner than any other travel package company, when maybe they are perhaps no worse and no better than many others... 

I appreciate that P&O (and all other holiday businesses) are in a difficult position at the moment. My concern is that P&O seem to have gone out of their way to be inflexible and uncooperative,  which has led to a lot of customer disatisisfaction (to put it mildly).  

By adopting a more caring approach, they would have kept the trust of their existing clients, who are essential for the prosperity of the business going forward.

[Clodia]

Also meant to be going on April 12th and was really fed up when the end date for cancellation was announced as the 11th. It's getting very close now and I feel it's about time I was contacted. I am, however, holding my nerve and waiting for P and O to cancel it.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, Clodia said:

Also meant to be going on April 12th and was really fed up when the end date for cancellation was announced as the 11th. It's getting very close now and I feel it's about time I was contacted. I am, however, holding my nerve and waiting for P and O to cancel it.

I don't think you need to hold your nerve, because in essence there is nothing you can do at this stage.

[Selbourne]

9 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Yes, and I do realise how terribly frustrating that is for you.  I guess I was just trying to make a point that (with that only being 5 days different to what everyone else is doing), they are in general not much different to any other travel company providing packages.  It just feels that reading a couple of threads on here at the moment, it would be easy to imagine that P&O are treating their customers in a much more shoddy manner than any other travel package company, when maybe they are perhaps no worse and no better than many others... 

 

You are, of course, quite right Andrew that this is not a ‘unique to P&O’ issue. I am having the same issue with a holiday cottage company and several theatre tickets, all paid in full and now cancelled with no mention of refunds and emails to them being ignored.

 

Two of my particular beefs with P&O are that I received an email from P&O saying that, due to my wife’s medical condition, we could cancel and get a full refund, but no need to rush. Then, a few days later, another email saying that the offer was withdrawn. I also have an email (sent between the two emails) from my lovely contact at P&O confirming that we could get a refund on our cabin and our daughters cabin (I made, and paid for, both bookings), but I’m not going to use that for fear of getting them into trouble as they weren’t meant to email customers. The other issue is the refusal to allow refunds on pre paid Select Dining and excursions, even though the booking conditions state that you can do so up to 48 hours before and get a full refund. They are claiming it’s an IT issue but I’m afraid that I just don’t believe them. These things, added to everything else, leave a very bad taste in the mouth - and I say that as someone who has been a loyal customer for almost 25 years. 

[DamianG]

28 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Yes, and I do realise how terribly frustrating that is for you.  I guess I was just trying to make a point that (with that only being 5 days different to what everyone else is doing), they are in general not much different to any other travel company providing packages.  It just feels that reading a couple of threads on here at the moment, it would be easy to imagine that P&O are treating their customers in a much more shoddy manner than any other travel package company, when maybe they are perhaps no worse and no better than many others... 

Not defending P&O but you're right, currently trending on a certain social media website is a hashtag indicating people's frustrations at trying to get refunds from a well known airline based in Luton. Online refund (click button) options have mysteriously disappeared, online chat available 8am-5pm daily but currently "closed", emails not responded to and people can't get through on the telephone.

Unprecedented times, yes, but it's no wonder we all get frustrated when companies are choosing this "batten down the hatches" approach in a day and age of a huge number of means of communication. Loyalty works both ways and a little honesty from P&O would be appreciated.

Edited March 28, 2020 by DamianG