What about Bus Trips?

[cruisemom42]

I think the OP was just using a conversational gambit as a way of protesting the negative attention that has been showered on cruises versus other types of travel.

 

Hopefully the answers have given them some food for thought...

 

[slidergirl]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I'm also in NY state. Somehow liquor stores are on the list as "essential".

Same as in, of all places, Utah.  But, since Utah owns the stores, they make money for the state off of them.  The day before our Stay At Home went into place, the line was around the store, like you've been seeing at Costco!!!  I lucked out - I still have lots of booze that I received as gratuities this winter - I think my owners and guests really like Tito's, prosecco, and various rums.  I have one gratuity of a nice red wine sitting on the counter because I don't want to just pop it open and drain a nice bottle.  

[Cruizer Bill]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:46 PM, cruisemom42 said:

I think the OP was just using a conversational gambit as a way of protesting the negative attention that has been showered on cruises versus other types of travel.

 

Hopefully the answers have given them some food for thought...

 

That is exactly what I am doing.  Thank you cruisemom42!  It just seems to me that cruises are being singled out and other activities are not being addressed by the media, the’ s all I-am saying.

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, Cruizer Bill said:

That is exactly what I am doing.  Thank you cruisemom42!  It just seems to me that cruises are being singled out and other activities are not being addressed by the media, the’ s all I-am saying.

And they seem to be especially singled out by the CDC!

[cruisetheworld67]

Cruises have been singled out for a very good reason. Scientists have compared cruises, where you have thousands of people packed together with no chance to social distance, to petri dishes for any virus or bacteria. Look at the issues with Noro virus. 

 

Plus, if you are on a bus and come down with Covid 19; you have the opportunity to receive good medical care immediately.

On a cruise ship? Good luck. No ventilators on board. The MD will give you some Tylenol and a little Oxygen. 

 

Who wants to be on a ship in the middle of the ocean under those conditions? 

 

People do not want to accept it but future cruising will look very different in many ways. 

 

I find it comical that some people on this board have cruises booked this year and are hopeful they can still cruise. Really? Why would anyone even WANT to cruise before a safe and effective vaccine is available?  And even if you do cruise and another Covid outbreak occurs on the ship and the cruise line drops you off  in a foreign country half way around the world. Or you wait offshore to dock somewhere, anywhere  but no port wants you and  you are confined to your stateroom with room service delivering sandwiches twice a day. SOunds  like so much fun!

[MJSailors]

cruisetheworld67

    Totally agree with your post !

[Mary229]

Bus versus cruise.  I can get off of a bus and my last bus tour I did just that.  I got tired of it and went independent, I just told the driver/host, next town let me off.  And I did.  

[MISTER 67]

On 4/15/2020 at 3:10 PM, Cruizer Bill said:

With all the talk about how dangerous cruise ships are, what about bus trips?  The escorted tours that use buses have people sitting very closely together in confined spaces.  Plus, they eat close together in different dining venues and walk close together to hear the tour guide.  Aren't they just as dangerous as a cruise?

And people in major cities are still riding in crowded subway and El trains and of course city buses. I'm pretty nervous making a once a week grocery trip and can't imagine hopping on a city bus or subway train.

Edited April 18, 2020 by MISTER 67

[npcl]

53 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said:

And people in major cities are still riding in crowded subway and El trains and of course city buses. I'm pretty nervous making a once a week grocery trip and can't imagine hopping on a city bus or subway train.

Since your post seems to be from Sebring Florida, how many big cities and mass transit system have you been on lately?

 

 

[MISTER 67]

25 minutes ago, npcl said:

Since your post seems to be from Sebring Florida, how many big cities and mass transit system have you been on lately?

 

 

None lately but I grew up in Chicago and lived there 48 years before moving to Florida and can't tell you how many times I rode on packed Subway trains, trolley cars and buses.

What is the point of your question?  Like maybe you think I dont know what I'm talking about.

Edited April 18, 2020 by MISTER 67

[npcl]

10 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said:

None lately but I grew up in Chicago and lived there 48 years before moving to Florida and can't tell you how many times I rode on packed Subway trains, trolley cars and buses.

What is the point of your question?  Like maybe you think I dont know what I'm talking about.

Just making the point that prior to the COVID-19 the subways. the L in Chicago, and other mass transit was crowded.  These days not so much. 

 

Yet you made the comment " are still riding in crowded".  Yes some are still riding, but the systems are not very crowded.

 

But yes in those cities, quite a few don't have much of a choice if they want to get anywhere including the hospital, grocery store, work.  Maybe their chauffeurs are talking the time off.

 

As matter of fact your home City states this:

 

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/04/02/with-ridership-down-82-during-coronavirus-pandemic-why-is-cta-running-on-normal-schedule/

With Ridership Down 82% During Coronavirus Pandemic ...

 

So maybe on second thought it did appear from your post that you did not know what you were talking about.

[Cruizer Bill]

9 hours ago, cruisetheworld67 said:

Cruises have been singled out for a very good reason. Scientists have compared cruises, where you have thousands of people packed together with no chance to social distance, to petri dishes for any virus or bacteria. Look at the issues with Noro virus. 

 

Plus, if you are on a bus and come down with Covid 19; you have the opportunity to receive good medical care immediately.

On a cruise ship? Good luck. No ventilators on board. The MD will give you some Tylenol and a little Oxygen. 

 

Who wants to be on a ship in the middle of the ocean under those conditions? 

 

People do not want to accept it but future cruising will look very different in many ways. 

 

I find it comical that some people on this board have cruises booked this year and are hopeful they can still cruise. Really? Why would anyone even WANT to cruise before a safe and effective vaccine is available?  And even if you do cruise and another Covid outbreak occurs on the ship and the cruise line drops you off  in a foreign country half way around the world. Or you wait offshore to dock somewhere, anywhere  but no port wants you and  you are confined to your stateroom with room service delivering sandwiches twice a day. SOunds  like so much fun!

This is an excellent post and does a perfect job of cautioning us about cruising right now.  I want to wait for this virus to die way down or disappear.  Then I can't wait to get back on the seas and visit fun ports.  It's in my blood! 

BTW, the wife and I both became sick with this virus 5 to 7 weeks ago.  I am hoping we have pretty good resistance to the virus now but do not want to take extra chances. 

[MISTER 67]

10 hours ago, cruisetheworld67 said:

Cruises have been singled out for a very good reason. Scientists have compared cruises, where you have thousands of people packed together with no chance to social distance, to petri dishes for any virus or bacteria. Look at the issues with Noro virus. 

 

Plus, if you are on a bus and come down with Covid 19; you have the opportunity to receive good medical care immediately.

On a cruise ship? Good luck. No ventilators on board. The MD will give you some Tylenol and a little Oxygen. 

 

Who wants to be on a ship in the middle of the ocean under those conditions? 

 

People do not want to accept it but future cruising will look very different in many ways. 

 

I find it comical that some people on this board have cruises booked this year and are hopeful they can still cruise. Really? Why would anyone even WANT to cruise before a safe and effective vaccine is available?  And even if you do cruise and another Covid outbreak occurs on the ship and the cruise line drops you off  in a foreign country half way around the world. Or you wait offshore to dock somewhere, anywhere  but no port wants you and  you are confined to your stateroom with room service delivering sandwiches twice a day. SOunds  like so much fun!

Excellent post. We love cruising as much as anyone with 62 cruises but will wait until there is some kind of vaccine.

[slidergirl]

18 hours ago, Cruizer Bill said:

This is an excellent post and does a perfect job of cautioning us about cruising right now.  I want to wait for this virus to die way down or disappear.  Then I can't wait to get back on the seas and visit fun ports.  It's in my blood! 

BTW, the wife and I both became sick with this virus 5 to 7 weeks ago.  I am hoping we have pretty good resistance to the virus now but do not want to take extra chances. 

As soon as an antibody test is offered in your area - GET IT!  It will help in research and data collection to see if immunity is actually going to be there - I think it's up in the air now, with some places seeing anecdotal cases of re-infection.    I got the swab shoved up my nose yesterday - a new little hotspot cropped up within a 2 mile radius.  Authorities asked for people within the radius to come and get tested.  The hotspot is centered on an apartment complex which houses many of our local "essential" - the low-paid grocery workers, stockers, seasonal workers waiting for summer jobs...  So, there was good chance that some of us have had contact when we went to the grocery store.  I don't live in a big metropolitan area, either, but a small resort and rural county,

[npcl]

10 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

As soon as an antibody test is offered in your area - GET IT!  It will help in research and data collection to see if immunity is actually going to be there - I think it's up in the air now, with some places seeing anecdotal cases of re-infection.    I got the swab shoved up my nose yesterday - a new little hotspot cropped up within a 2 mile radius.  Authorities asked for people within the radius to come and get tested.  The hotspot is centered on an apartment complex which houses many of our local "essential" - the low-paid grocery workers, stockers, seasonal workers waiting for summer jobs...  So, there was good chance that some of us have had contact when we went to the grocery store.  I don't live in a big metropolitan area, either, but a small resort and rural county,

One of the problems today is while there are antibody tests being released and used, there seems to be numerous problems with both false positives and negatives with them.  The UK, for example have purchased millions of dollars worth, of a number of different types, only to, in the end reject them all, due to lack of reliability.

 

So by all means try them, but do not rely on the results.  Use it more for information, not to relax behavior, until proven to be reliable.

Edited April 19, 2020 by npcl

[slidergirl]

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

One of the problems today is while there are antibody tests being released and used, there seems to be numerous problems with both false positives and negatives with them.  The UK, for example have purchased millions of dollars worth, of a number of different types, only to, in the end reject them all, due to lack of reliability.

 

So by all means try them, but do not rely on the results.  Use it more for information, not to relax behavior, until proven to be reliable.

I was not advocating using them to relax behavior.   I think it has good use for data gathering of those who were asymptomatic or thought or were told they had bronchitis or it was just a flu (without testing) as far back as November.   Since there is no proof that having antibodies equals being immune to another go-around, I just want to do what I could do to help.  If you have the antibodies, you may be able to donate plasma to the experimental usage of the plasma to help treat (not cure) infected folks, 

[MISTER 67]

23 hours ago, npcl said:

Just making the point that prior to the COVID-19 the subways. the L in Chicago, and other mass transit was crowded.  These days not so much. 

 

Yet you made the comment " are still riding in crowded".  Yes some are still riding, but the systems are not very crowded.

 

But yes in those cities, quite a few don't have much of a choice if they want to get anywhere including the hospital, grocery store, work.  Maybe their chauffeurs are talking the time off.

 

As matter of fact your home City states this:

 

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/04/02/with-ridership-down-82-during-coronavirus-pandemic-why-is-cta-running-on-normal-schedule/

With Ridership Down 82% During Coronavirus Pandemic ...

 

So maybe on second thought it did appear from your post that you did not know what you were talking about.

MIT study was released the other day about the big problem with mass transit in NYC, many deaths from riding on mass transit including 65 transit workers.

I would have added a link but I'm on an iPad and have a problem with links.

If you're interested just Google MIT study on subways and buses in NYC.

Maybe I did know what I was talking about.

Edited April 19, 2020 by MISTER 67

[npcl]

1 hour ago, MISTER 67 said:

MIT study was released the other day about the big problem with mass transit in NYC, many deaths from riding on mass transit including 65 transit workers.

I would have added a link but I'm on an iPad and have a problem with links.

If you're interested just Google MIT study on subways and buses in NYC.

Maybe I did know what I was talking about.

When did that event occur. Since you are talking about deaths.  One would expect using time to development of symptoms, then to time of death.  then investigated into a study.  So you are talking about event at the start of the outbreak.

 

So Again I return to the phrase STILL RIDING CROWDED which you posted yesterday. You did not say that it was a cause a month ago when they might have been crowded. So present some proof that the mass transit systems are still crowded at the time you posted yesterday, not something from early March.  People are still riding but they are not currently crowded and have not been for a couple of weeks.  

 

The Chicago train system is down 87%.  Other mass transit systems are down a similar degree.  The paper you referenced showed trips on the NY subway down 75% by March 15.  So it certainly does not look that they were still crowded on 4/15

when you posted

 

"And people in major cities are still riding in crowded subway and El trains and of course city buses"

 

Nope no support for your comment because the article, even if true, was due to behavior prior to 3/15, not 4/15 when you posted.

[Mary229]

Having to, by economic necessity, to ride inner city mass transit is not really a valid comparison to discretionary travel on a luxury bus. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Mary229

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

Having to, by economic necessity, to ride inner city mass transit is not really a valid comparison to discretionary travel on a luxury bus. 

Yep.

 

of course if cruise lines drop their passenger count as much as inner city mass transit (over 80%) and put 600 people on a 3000 passenger ship the CDC might let them cruise again.

[gilboman]

On 4/15/2020 at 3:10 PM, Cruizer Bill said:

With all the talk about how dangerous cruise ships are, what about bus trips?  The escorted tours that use buses have people sitting very closely together in confined spaces.  Plus, they eat close together in different dining venues and walk close together to hear the tour guide.  Aren't they just as dangerous as a cruise?

No. A bus will have around 40-50ppl max, maybe less. Also, you're not sleeping on the bus and food made on the bus right?

 

Cruise will have 5k easily including crew.

[gilboman]

On 4/15/2020 at 3:59 PM, Sir PMP said:

and airplanes..

Planes have fresh air in cabin unlike cruises . Also pretty sure even longest plane ride is around 17hrs or so. Way less time than on a cruise 

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, gilboman said:

Planes have fresh air in cabin unlike cruises . Also pretty sure even longest plane ride is around 17hrs or so. Way less time than on a cruise 

OTOH, you cannot just find a place to be alone on a plane. You are all cramped in. And if the person sitting near you has a cough, you are out of luck.

 

We had a cross country flight once before smoking was banned on planes. We were on the border with the smoking section and breathed smoke the whole flight. And the people were not even smoking; they were basically just holding their lit cigarettes. It was HELL.

[gilboman]

9 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

OTOH, you cannot just find a place to be alone on a plane. You are all cramped in. And if the person sitting near you has a cough, you are out of luck.

 

We had a cross country flight once before smoking was banned on planes. We were on the border with the smoking section and breathed smoke the whole flight. And the people were not even smoking; they were basically just holding their lit cigarettes. It was HELL.

Unless you don't eat anything or ever leave the room on a cruise and don't let steward come in, you still don't get the fresh air circulation that exists on a plane

 

A cruise is way more dangerous and easily infected than on a plane. When was last time you heard a plane get infected by noro?

 

Covid19 on cruise ships is well documented with thousands sick on cruises and many dying. Has there even been reports of covid19 on planes let alone dropping dead before landing?

Edited April 20, 2020 by gilboman

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, gilboman said:

Unless you don't eat anything or ever leave the room on a cruise and don't let steward come in, you still don't get the fresh air circulation that exists on a plane

 

A cruise is way more dangerous and easily infected than on a plane. When was last time you heard a plane get infected by noro?

 

Covid19 on cruise ships is well documented with thousands sick on cruises and many dying. Has there even been reports of covid19 on planes let alone dropping dead before landing?

 

When you step outside and say walk around the deck, you do not get fresh air? When you go off on an excursion, you do not gt fresh air?

 

And how do you know that that norovirus that showed up on a ship did not start on an airplane? You just got off the airplane before the symptoms showed up.