Are we seeing the end of cruising?

AF-1 · May 10, 2020

wow you guys are full of facts. Thanks for sharing

PrincessLuver · May 10, 2020

12 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

JOG YOUR memory too. The Javits center was designated for COVID 19 and Cuomo did not use it. Then the hospital in NY sent 2 patients to the Ship with COVID by mistake. The decsion was then made to use the ship also for COVID patients. The percetnage of deaths in NY was 56% from the Nursing Homes. The Gov Mr Cuomo had made an executive order that all Nursing homes CAN NOT refuse returning patients who were admitted and released fromhospitals as postive for COVID 19. The Gov made that order and 4,800 people died in nursing homes becasue of the order . The statistics so far show that 5 states NY,NJ,IL,MA,and CA make up 54% of the cases and 61% of the deaths. The breakdown for counties inthe US show 52% of teh counties hve zero cases and 80% have 5 cases and 89% of all the counties have had 15 dead.

I love good conspiracies.....please keep sharing because it is pretty entertaining....however....I do not see what they have to do with cruising and speaking of conspiracies, I for one do not believe that Carnival is really going to be cruising in August and they are just peddling false hope again to get more money in their coffers to stay afloat a little longer.....it is a long ways until August and they certainly can change their minds again.

Edited May 10, 2020 by PrincessLuver

PrincessLuver · May 10, 2020

7 minutes ago, BigGuy25 said:

With 30+ cruises behind us, we’re likely not cruising again until at least 2022. Like barber shops and hairdressers, there will be a flood of passengers who just can’t wait to get back onboard as soon as ships begin sailing again. But, the real test for the cruise industry will come after that big opening rush is over. My guess is that then it will become more difficult to fill all the cabins until large groups of past passengers feel safe to cruise again. And, it’s likely that the industry will have a much more difficult time attracting NEW passengers who have never sailed before. They, whether it’s factual or not, will feel that cruises are not a safe way to vacation. Hopefully, time will resolve all these issues and we can all get back to-sea, and traveling the way that we all enjoy so much!

I love flying and even though it is a great time to fly because of prices, social distance seating, cleaning of airports and planes, and plenty of space on planes people are just not rushing back to flying which IMHO is way safer to travel now then being stuck on a cruise ships with a bunch of passengers who basically believe it a killer virus is no biggie.....party on.

Fat Albert · May 10, 2020

10 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

I love good conspiracies.....please keep sharing because it is pretty entertaining....however....I do not see what they have to do with cruising and speaking of conspiracies, I for one do not believe that Carnival is really going to be cruising in August and they are just peddling false hope again to get more money in their coffers to stay afloat a little longer.....it is a long ways until August and they certainly can change their minds again.

You are very confused and need to read the post again. I have nothing but facts of the order by cuomo and the mistake he made cost the lives of 4,800 folks innursing homes. The Carnival operation has no relevance to anything I posted. I never sailed Carnival and have never posted anything about the company.

caribill · May 10, 2020

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And add to that number those who have posted that they have tried to book but have been told that the ships are sold out.

Maybe they are told that because the ships did reach the "reduced capacity" that was implemented.

HappyInVan · May 10, 2020

2 hours ago, Fat Albert said:

Almost 5,000 people DIED from NOT using the SHip. Cuomo Made a terrible decision to NOT use the ship

How do you know that? Do you have a crystal ball??

The other side of the story...

https://nypost.com/2020/04/26/cuomo-doubles-down-on-sending-coronavirus-patients-to-nursing-homes/

Edited May 10, 2020 by HappyInVan

HappyInVan · May 10, 2020

I noticed that the proponents for herd immunity have a blind-spot. And this fundamental weakness is threatening to destroy the cruise companies..

Normal people are risk adverse (conservative) when faced with a new danger. Covid19 being a new disease and an unknown quality, you would think that governments would apply traditional strategies that they have been preparing.

China and Italy applied the quarantine. South Korea applied mass testing and contact tracing. As well as the first application of mass contact matching with an app.

Most governments have followed the successful examples of China and Korea, by applying varying degrees of lockdown and distancing, as well as large scale testing as they build capacity. Surprisingly, conservative Utah is emulating Korea's app. Mass contact matching!

Only in Sweden, UK and USA have politicians actually tried herd immunity. Opening the front door so that the disease can rampage through the population. No need for mass testing and tracing! No need to wait for effective treatments and vaccines.

How did they know what the real fatality rate was? What if it was a world killer? What about neurological and cardiac complications? What would happen if the virus mutates and becomes a seasonal disease?

In fact, American/Canadian intelligence reports as early as January were pointing to the danger of massive carnage from a pandemic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/coronavirus-pandemic-covid-canadian-military-intelligence-wuhan-1.5528381

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/donald-trump-coronavirus-memos-warning-peter-navarro

What is this blindspot of the herders (proponents of herd immunity as an alternative to traditional tools)?

It was illustrated in a segment of Erin Burnett's show on CNN. Burnett had two academic guests (herder and anti-herder) face off. The herder (a German) proposed that everyone would be infected. Better to get it done sooner rather than slower.

The anti-herder (a young American) replied that she didn't understand why there was a hurry. Isn't it better to do it slowly because there would eventually be treatments and vaccines? To this, the herder had no reply.

There in a nutshell lies the fallacy of herd immunity as applied by the ideological fanatics. It is illogical and careless with lives. Violates the trust put by citizens in their government.

The bottom line is that it is uncertain if cruises can resume in August or even December, or even in 2021 if the economy keeps falling.

Luckiestmanonearth · May 10, 2020

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I never said I was willing to take that risk now. (And even if I was, DW would literally kill me before she would allow it.) What I did post was that there seemed to be many who were based on the August Carnival sailings are filling up. Even if it is with reduced capacity (which as you pointed out we really don't know), that is still a lot willing to take that risk. And add to that number those who have posted that they have tried to book but have been told that the ships are sold out.

It’s really a catch 22 situation . You have those that are willing to take the risk regardless of the capacity controls.

On the other side you have those that would travel if they had assurances of capacity controls but none are coming (so they’re likely not cruising)

Then you have the cruise company and what is the risk versus reward on sailing full versus much less than capacity .

Its quite the quandary

HappyInVan · May 10, 2020

1 hour ago, Fat Albert said:

The breakdown for counties inthe US show 52% of teh counties hve zero cases and 80% have 5 cases and 89% of all the counties have had 15 dead.

This does not see seem to be correct. Suggest you revisit your statistics.

Luckiestmanonearth · May 10, 2020

2 hours ago, AF-1 said:

The CEO of Carnival stated that when they do start cruising again they will not sell inside cabins and limit the oceanview cabins. So most people would sail in balcony cabins. That tells me the capacity for ships will be down quite a bit; at least at the start.

Do you really believe that ? I just looked up a cruise in Nov and they are showing inside cabins for booking.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Luckiestmanonearth

MrBill64 · May 10, 2020

The key to the cruise industry surviving is going to be what happens during the first cruises that finally set sail, hopefully by the end of the year. If these cruises sail without incident, the public will begin to slowly gain confidence again. As the general public gains confidence that they won't die, get sick, have to quarantine, on a cruise vacation, they will come back to cruising. Naturally if there are issues, I fear the industry will never recover. It's a big risk and that is why I think cruise lines will continue to push back sail dates until they either have to start sailing to survive or risk sailing to survive.

TwoCruisers · May 10, 2020

This is truly a sad situation. My DW and I love cruising and we have been on 31 cruises. Right now we have a cruise booked for February, but it was booked before we heard anything about the pandemic. We haven’t cancelled yet but final payment is late November and I doubt that we will keep the cruise. We are both in our 70’s and we have medical conditions that would put us at risk. I sadly had resigned myself to the fact that cruising is probably over for us. ☹️

Edited May 10, 2020 by TwoCruisers

PrincessLuver · May 10, 2020

30 minutes ago, MrBill64 said:

The key to the cruise industry surviving is going to be what happens during the first cruises that finally set sail, hopefully by the end of the year. If these cruises sail without incident, the public will begin to slowly gain confidence again. As the general public gains confidence that they won't die, get sick, have to quarantine, on a cruise vacation, they will come back to cruising. Naturally if there are issues, I fear the industry will never recover. It's a big risk and that is why I think cruise lines will continue to push back sail dates until they either have to start sailing to survive or risk sailing to survive.

Well said as are many of the posts that are about the realities of cruising in this new environment and not like the conspiracy theories that are floating around everywhere about COVID-19.

If they cannot keep COVID-19 out of the White House how is a cruise ship going to be any more successful as things stand now....not sure about cruising this year until we have a very secure handle on stopping COVID-19 and preventing people from dying from it.

Edited May 10, 2020 by PrincessLuver

Fat Albert · May 10, 2020

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

How do you know that? Do you have a crystal ball??

The other side of the story...

https://nypost.com/2020/04/26/cuomo-doubles-down-on-sending-coronavirus-patients-to-nursing-homes/

The facts have been reported ,where have you been? The news had to report the deahts of nursing homes being 4,800 and the executive order By cuomo they had to take all patients who tested postive for COVID back to the nursing homes. Then Look at Florida that protected the larger senior nursing home population . The investigations are started already. The crystal ball reamark is for whaqt reason?

Fat Albert · May 10, 2020

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

This does not see seem to be correct. Suggest you revisit your statistics.

You have something about US counties cases and deaths or just running you suck

Fat Albert · May 10, 2020

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

This does not see seem to be correct. Suggest you revisit your statistics.

d Cases by County

54,959 confirmed

Queens

51,674 confirmed

Cook

47,402 confirmed

Kings

40,454 confirmed

Bronx

38,028 confirmed

Nassau

36,461 confirmed

Suffolk

31,241 confirmed

Los Angeles

31,087 confirmed

Westchester

22,042 confirmed

New York

17,960 confirmed

Wayne

17,881 confirmed

Philadelphia

17,365 confirmed

Hudson

17,307 confirmed

Middlesex

16,804 confirmed

Bergen

15,544 confirmed

Essex

15,119 confirmed

Suffolk

14,428 confirmed

Passaic

13,984 confirmed

Union

13,841 confirmed

Miami-Dade

13,759 confirmed

Middlesex

13,030 confirmed

Fairfield

12,535 confirmed

Richmond

12,400 confirmed

Rockland

11,211 confirmed

Essex

9,486 confirmed

Orange

9,205 confirmed

Prince George's

9,091 confirmed

New Haven

7,803 confirmed

Harris

7,692 confirmed

Oakland

7,611 confirmed

Worcester

7,366 confirmed

Ocean

7,245 confirmed

Marion

7,138 confirmed

Providence

7,105 confirmed

Hartford

6,947 confirmed

King

6,887 confirmed

Norfolk

6,815 confirmed

Monmouth

6,679 confirmed

Jefferson

6,674 confirmed

Orleans

6,555 confirmed

Montgomery

6,311 confirmed

Plymouth

6,102 confirmed

District of Columbia

6,019 confirmed

Macomb

5,833 confirmed

Morris

5,780 confirmed

Broward

5,779 confirmed

Maricopa

5,619 confirmed

Dallas

5,610 confirmed

Fairfax

5,233 confirmed

Mercer

5,199 confirmed

lake

Edited May 10, 2020 by Fat Albert

HappyInVan · May 10, 2020

12 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

useless!

Albert,

You've merely cut and post the top counties with the most infections, from the john Hopkins site...

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

You make a ridiculous claim...

"The breakdown for counties inthe US show 52% of teh counties hve zero cases and 80% have 5 cases and 89% of all the counties have had 15 dead."

Obviously the number are incompatible. In fact, the information about the number of counties is very wrong. As early as March 29 , the WP reported that only a third of counties had no infection...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/29/coronavirus-no-confirmed-cases-one-third-us-counti/

So, the number of counties without infection must be a small proportion today.

MrBill64 · May 10, 2020

Some hurdles the cruise industry will have to overcome in order to survive. What is expected from passengers before/during their cruise. Specifically how will social distancing affect the cruise experience? What pre existing or current health conditions will have to be divulged by the passenger in order to board? What ports will allow cruise lines to dock? And maybe the most important hurdle. What if the economy continues to suffer and passengers won't have the discretionary money to spend?

These are no small hurdles. Even if the cruise line is able to control (control is a loose term) covid-19 cases from the ship, are passengers going to be willing to take a vacation with these restrictions.

(trying to get this thread back on the rails)

Edited May 10, 2020 by MrBill64
added last line

HappyInVan · May 10, 2020

26 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

The facts have been reported ,where have you been? The news had to report the deahts of nursing homes being 4,800 and the executive order By cuomo they had to take all patients who tested postive for COVID back to the nursing homes. Then Look at Florida that protected the larger senior nursing home population . The investigations are started already. The crystal ball reamark is for whaqt reason?

You said that "Almost 5,000 people DIED from NOT using the SHip. Cuomo Made a terrible decision to NOT use the ship."

Factual: The ship arrived in NY on March 30 for non-covid patients. On April 17, it was repurpose for covid patients. On April 21, the state said that it was no longer needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_ships_designated_for_the_COVID-19_pandemic#USNS_Mercy

So, your claim cannot be remotely correct. The ship was repurposed on April 17 after 13k people had already died in NY state. The ship had nothing to do with the 5k deaths you mentioned.

I have no confidence in anything you say. It is not grounded in facts or analysis.

HappyInVan · May 10, 2020

43 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

You have something about US counties cases and deaths or just running you suck

I have shown that your assertions have no basis in facts. See posts 127 and 129. Please be careful of what you say. You're merely confusing the issues. And very rudely too!

I hope that you're not a child messing with your parent's computer. BTW, your usage of the English language requires remedial schooling.

All the best.

Edited May 10, 2020 by HappyInVan

Diver2014 · May 10, 2020

4 hours ago, Cash123 said:

We love cruising and were on the last Crown cruise in March before Princess announced the shutdown but am amazed when I read posts like this, I find it hard to believe that anyone would be willing to risk themselves and their familes health in getting on a ship again without either a vaccine or a treatment for Covid-19.

Are you really happy to be among anything up to 6000 people where someone may have the virus which would result in a quarantine periord, being denied docking in various ports and not knowing how and when you could return home.

I can't get my head around how some people are willing to gamble their money, their vacation plans and most important their lives just to get on a cruise ship.

So stay home. Can you get your head around that? We all make our own choices and no one is forcing you to accept their decision to go on a cruise or go to the grocery store. Since I'm a scuba diver, I get asked all the time if I am afraid of sharks. No, I am not. If you are, you shouldn't go into the water. Am I afraid to get on a cruise ship now? No, the ships are probably cleaner than they've ever been. There will be changes made and I'm ready to accept whatever we need to do to reduce risk. But staying home is not one of them.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Diver2014

PrincessLuver · May 10, 2020

11 minutes ago, Diver2014 said:

Since I'm a scuba diver, I get asked all the time if I am afraid of sharks. No, I am not. If you are, you shouldn't go into the water.

I am a Master Rated Diver.....it depends on the shark......Reef Shark (no).....Great White (yes).