FDR Says He Expects NCLH To Resume Cruising In Late 2020

[njhorseman]

I mentioned this on another thread but I think it warrants its own thread.

 

FDR has stated he is planning for limited cruise operations to resume in late 2020 with three NCL ships and one each from Oceania and Regent Seven Seas. It may take up to six months to get back to full operation.

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5340/

[Shawnino]

...and yet they're still selling cruises for all six Oceania ships for this summer on the website.

That, is poor.

Maybe they can change the slogan to "Your World, No Way"

[clo]

1 hour ago, Shawnino said:

...and yet they're still selling cruises for all six Oceania ships for this summer on the website.

That, is poor.

Maybe they can change the slogan to "Your World, No Way"

I find this rather disreputable. I'm not a naive person but this industry is something else.

[RJB]

13 hours ago, Shawnino said:

...and yet they're still selling cruises for all six Oceania ships for this summer on the website.

That, is poor.

Maybe they can change the slogan to "Your World, No Way"

Pretty poor way to do business. Sounds like bait and switch to me.  Just wants to get your money when they know they will not deliver what they sell. 

[njhorseman]

13 hours ago, clo said:

I find this rather disreputable. I'm not a naive person but this industry is something else.

 

1 hour ago, RJB said:

Pretty poor way to do business. Sounds like bait and switch to me.  Just wants to get your money when they know they will not deliver what they sell. 

It goes beyond being disreputable and seems to be stepping over the line into criminal. Technically it isn't "bait and switch" because that involves advertising a low priced product or service that is not actually available for sale and then pressuring you to buy a higher priced product or service. In this case there's actually no product or service to sell at any price.

 

Even assuming you'll eventually get a refund, they're taking control of your money and using it for their purposes for an unspecified period of time. That should entitle you to not only receive a refund, but also interest on the money they're holding.

 

While I'm happy to see FDR give a more realistic assessment of when NCL, Oceania and Regent Seven Seas might resume service, it was a really, really bad idea to make this statement without at the same time officially extending the suspension of service to a date that corresponds to their actual plans expectations . 

Edited May 9, 2020 by njhorseman

[Shawnino]

As was pointed out in another thread, the Cruise Contract is subject to the laws of Florida, of which I know nothing. Perhaps a member of the Florida Bar can volunteer an opinion. 

 

In my jurisdiction there would seemingly be a fraud case to answer in court. Entering into a contract and receiving consideration (deposit or full payment) for a good or service your CEO publicly says you have no intention of providing (a summer cruise) would be enough to get to a jury. No matter how much wiggle room is written into a contract, when one party proceeds with bad intentions from the start, they have a hard time. 

 

[pingpong1]

21 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

As was pointed out in another thread, the Cruise Contract is subject to the laws of Florida, of which I know nothing. Perhaps a member of the Florida Bar can volunteer an opinion. 

 

In my jurisdiction there would seemingly be a fraud case to answer in court. Entering into a contract and receiving consideration (deposit or full payment) for a good or service your CEO publicly says you have no intention of providing (a summer cruise) would be enough to get to a jury. No matter how much wiggle room is written into a contract, when one party proceeds with bad intentions from the start, they have a hard time. 

 

I guess the burden would be on the plaintiff's shoulders to "prove" that cruise line had "absolutely no intention" of operating that cruise (or an equivalent product), at the time it was first advertised. 

[pingpong1]

From Oceania's Terms & Conditions (T&C)

 

Acts of Nature, Strike, or Other Conditions Beyond Control
Oceania Cruises shall not be liable for delay or inability to perform caused by or arising out of strikes, lockout or labor difficulties or shortages, whether or not Oceania Cruises is a party thereto, or any other acts of nature, force majeure or other circumstances beyond the control of Oceania Cruises.

 

Itinerary
All itineraries, including points of embarkation and debarkation, are at the discretion of Oceania Cruises and may be modified up to and during the voyage. Oceania Cruises reserves the right to amend, cancel or make substitutions for any travel component without prior notice to the guest, including hotels, ports of call or other modes of transportation if, in its opinion, the situation requires a change or cancellation of arrangements. Oceania Cruises does not assume responsibility or liability for any loss, inconvenience, or expense incurred by guests as a result of any changes or cancellations as detailed in the Guest Ticket/Contract. When practicable, Oceania Cruises will promptly notify guests or their Travel Agent of a cruise itinerary change.

[Shawnino]

"...at the time it was first advertised" is not a necessary condition.

It seems to me that once NLCH knows it's not sailing, if it stops taking booking as soon as reasonably possible, that wouldn't be looked upon so darkly. Hey, they were trying. It didn't happen. Unlucky, we live in wild times.

The scandalous part here is that the CEO has already come out and contradicted the proposition, but they're still knowingly taking money from Peter to pay Paul.

 

As to burden, well that depends on criminal or civil.

In most jurisdictions the criminal burden (something like "beyond reasonable doubt") is heavier than that in a civil action (somewhere between "balance of probabilities" and "clear and convincing proof"). The criminal case would intrigue me. The civil case feels like a slam dunk. 

[Shawnino]

2 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

From Oceania's Terms & Conditions (T&C)

 

Acts of Nature, Strike, or Other Conditions Beyond Control
Oceania Cruises shall not be liable for delay or inability to perform caused by or arising out of strikes, lockout or labor difficulties or shortages, whether or not Oceania Cruises is a party thereto, or any other acts of nature, force majeure or other circumstances beyond the control of Oceania Cruises.

 

 

 

That's the wiggle room.

Does it overcome the obvious bad faith of taking money whilst never intending to cruise?

That's what courts are for.

[Petoonya]

OK- I did a very dumb thing and I'll take all the eggs thrown my way. Bought air.

Booked an O cruise for 4/4/21. Today I found airfare so low with premium economy the temptation was too great- I bought tickets. Now with FDR throwing a curve like this, I know the chances of Regatta sailing are, just a rough guess, 30% based on the number of ships he says will be back at sea. Final payment would be 11/20.

 

I have 24 hours to cancel and guess I better. Seems like the odds are against me.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Petoonya

[LHT28]

3 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

OK- I did a very dumb thing and I'll take all the eggs thrown my way. Bought air.

Booked an O cruise for 4/4/21. Today I found airfare so low with premium economy the temptation was too great- I bought tickets. Now with FDR throwing a curve like this, I know the chances of Regatta sailing are, just a rough guess, 30% based on the number of ships he says will be back at sea. Final payment would be 11/20.

 

I have 24 hours to cancel and guess I better. Seems like the odds are against me.

 

 

Or maybe hang on  until the fall & see how things go  but then again the stress of not knowing would drive you crazy

you can use my 

😁

[Paulchili]

11 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

I have 24 hours to cancel and guess I better. Seems like the odds are against me.

I would. With the cruise not very likely to sail, dealing with air refund in the future will add another layer of frustration.

If the cruise sails, I don't think the flights to FP will be in great demand just yet and you still may get a good price later.

JMO.

As much as we love to travel, I am not committing any actual money to book anything until the dust settles (i.e. there is an effective vaccine and/or cure).

Edited May 9, 2020 by Paulchili

[Petoonya]

3 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Or maybe hang on  until the fall & see how things go  but then again the stress of not knowing would drive you crazy

you can use my 

😁

Lyn,

If they cancel the cruise I guess it's the same as this time- United has to refund. Although such a hassle to contend with. But it stinks that they are selling these cruises with such moderate chance of sailing.

[Paulchili]

5 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

f they cancel the cruise I guess it's the same as this time- United has to refund

Not Lyn but not true either.

United has nothing to do with your cruise if you bought your tickets yourself. If you got them from Oceania then that is true.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Paulchili

[Petoonya]

5 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

I would. With the cruise not very likely to sail, dealing with air refund in the future will add another layer of frustration.

If the cruise sails, I don't think the flights to FP will be in great demand just yet and you still may get a good price later.

JMO.

As much as we love to travel, I am not committing any actual money to book anything until the dust settles (i.e. there is an effective vaccine and/or cure).

I think you're probably right. If November rolls around and the sailing still looks iffy, I'd cancel, not do final payment and be stuck with two United tickets.

[LHT28]

10 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Lyn,

If they cancel the cruise I guess it's the same as this time- United has to refund. Although such a hassle to contend with. But it stinks that they are selling these cruises with such moderate chance of sailing.

No one really knows  what next April will be like

We may still be in lock down or we could be  back to some state  of normal 

 If the cruise lines do not sail by the end of the year  then they will be done

 

 

[KS&JW]

8 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

I think you're probably right. If November rolls around and the sailing still looks iffy, I'd cancel, not do final payment and be stuck with two United tickets.

 

If the cruise does not go, could you use the United tickets for a land based trip to FP?  

Everyone is different, but I am not giving any company any money to  travel anytime in the the next 12 months.  I might travel in the next 12 months, but I don't need to commit to anything right now.  Plenty of time for that.  

[Paulchili]

5 minutes ago, KS&JW said:

If the cruise does not go, could you use the United tickets for a land based trip to FP?  

I've done that once. Land trips to FP are pretty pricey and movement from island to island more difficult (other than Tahiti-Moorea).

[LHT28]

Nancy

 if you can cancel the air   maybe do it now

You will be second guessing yourself  & stressing out   for the next 11 months

JMO

[Petoonya]

8 minutes ago, KS&JW said:

 

If the cruise does not go, could you use the United tickets for a land based trip to FP?  

Everyone is different, but I am not giving any company any money to  travel anytime in the the next 12 months.  I might travel in the next 12 months, but I don't need to commit to anything right now.  Plenty of time for that.  

Thanks very much. We did land based FP stays when we were still young and working- now the cost is out of range of this retired couple. I'm thinking I better cancel the United tickets. But thanks.

12 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

No one really knows  what next April will be like

We may still be in lock down or we could be  back to some state  of normal 

 If the cruise lines do not sail by the end of the year  then they will be done

 

 

Yeah, thanks again Lyn. With such iffy-ness I guess I'd better cancel United while I can. If the trip looks like it's a go as Paul said, I should still be able to get a decent fare early next year.

I'm not a Las Vegas person and even if the fare is terrific, I don't want to risk losing the $.

I'm fortunate NJ Horseman posted this today.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Petoonya

[KS&JW]

7 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

I've done that once. Land trips to FP are pretty pricey and movement from island to island more difficult (other than Tahiti-Moorea).

 

 

5 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Thanks very much. We did land based FP stays when we were still young and working- now the cost is out of range of this retired couple. I'm thinking I better cancel the United tickets. But thanks.

Yeah, thanks again Lyn. With such iffy-ness I guess I'd better cancel United while I can. If the trip looks like it's a go as Paul said, I should still be able to get a decent fare early next year.

I'm not a Las Vegas person and even if the fare is terrific, I don't want to risk losing the $.

 

I agree that a cruise is much better in FP.  However, I can easily see that FP may reject cruise ships for quite some time and land based vacation will be your only option.   I do wonder if room rates will be lower in 2021,  hmmmm. 

 

 I do think canceling your United tickets is the right call. 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by KS&JW

[Petoonya]

4 minutes ago, KS&JW said:

I do think canceling your United tickets is the right call.

 

Yeah, unfortunately I just cancelled the tickets. Waaaahhh. Was to do same cruise 4/14/20 and it was cancelled. Now chances of 4/21 look rather dim. Hate to do it to my TA but may give up my O deposit for same cruise too.  Not worth risking more dough.

Thanks to you and everyone.

[bitob]

Mr. Del Rio is aspirational but delusional.  There is no way NCL will be able to sail in 2020

 

[Redtravel]

Want to cruise? When? Where?  No problem. They’ll sell you whatever you want. Just because there is a extremely high probability that the cruise You picked is listed, you may not sail. Post a deposit?  No problem. Cruise line is happy to book you and very happy to take your deposit or donation. .   Sales people sell whatever they are told to sell. They just get bookings. Sales force has limited knowledge.  With all the uncertainty connected with covid 19,  waiting works.  Just get your refund and hold out until ships sail. So much has to change to allow ships to sail again.