Dry Fog

[MISTER 67]

I've been a proponent of the thorough cleaning of the ship for  a full day when returning to the disembarkation port for years because of Norovirus. There is no way the ship can be cleaned really well when 6000 passengers are off the ship by 10:30 and 6000 more are starting to board at 11:30. 

[babydrum]

28 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

The irony is that masks are probably the best defense against catching a respiratory virus (some will accuse me of not listening to "science.")  When I worked as a paramedic and in ERs we did not routinely wear masks,  But when around folks with respiratory problems such as the flu, the masks quickly got donned.   Even now it just makes common sense.  If I get a virus on my hands it is not a big deal as long as I wash my hands before touching my face.  So don't touch your face.  But if somebody coughs or sneezes within range it is more then likely that I will inhale some of that bug into my respiratory passage and lungs.  I know it is not science but it is called common sense.  Can we protect ourselves 100% by using masks (when appropriate) and washing hands before touching our faces?  Probably not 100% but I bet my odds are a lot better then simply ignoring these issues.  

 

What worries me about cruising are the elevators.  On ships they are often quite crowded and it is a necessary part of getting around most larger ships.  DW and I will normally walk down 1-5 decks and up 1-4.  But on ships that might have 16 decks there are limits :).  Our next booked cruise is on the Regal Princess in October (this cruise might still get cancelled).  It is a huge ship and it would be difficult to completely avoid elevators.  We routinely are going between deck 5 and deck 16 and I am usually not in the mood to do 11 up decks up!    On the other hand, if we did do that on a routine basis is might be a good think for our health and waist line :).

 

Where has the USA had the most COVID-19 cases,  NYC!  What is very common in NYC?  High rise buildings with crowded elevators.   Folks leave their apartments/co ops, take the elevator down to the ground floor, and then social distance.  It is the same when they return home.  But they cannot social distance in the elevators unless they can somehow get their own elevator car.  We have friends who live in an upscale Upper East Side building and they do try to follow an elevator policy where nobody gets on a elevator that has other folks.  But this is not the norm and does not usually happen on ships.

 

Hank

 

Hank

I agree with everything you said and I am so glad I don't have to deal with elevators.  I can't image how you do that without close contact.  I usually take the stairs on cruises trying to make up for overindulging but not everyone can do that.  Too bad they can't have escalators.  

[npcl]

3 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Not sure the science agrees with you yet. There has been discussions on just how many individual viral cells it requires to make someone sick. It is quite possible one viral cell will not get you sick, this is very common in other virus'. And to say that everyone in the elevator would get sick if one person coughed, or to spread it to everyone within reasonable range, is not absolutely supported, at least not at this point in time. Yes, its highly contagious, but lets stay within the known science.

 

A common social distancing protocol is to restrict numbers of people in elevators. Yes, the virus could still be suspended in air if the person on the elevator prior to you coughed.

People quietly riding an elevator, breathing normally, probably not much of an issues,  breathing. people talking while riding in an elevator is a different story. 

 

Intensity and duration of exposure is key.  Multitude of factors involved in any one person will get infected from a given exposure.  Single virus no issue.  The problem is that droplets can contain a large number, in the 10's of thousands or more.

Edited June 11, 2020 by npcl

[Donald]

This system is not new. Most cruise ships have had portable foggers onboard for at least a decade. They are used whenever there is a major Norovirus outbreak on a ship.

Employees who operate the foggers must wear hazmat suits and respirators.

The areas that are fogged must be absent of people and food.

Nobody is allowed to enter the area for about 12 hours after the fogging is complete.

The chemicals being used in the foggers have warnings about respiratory issues from breathing the fog.

 

In the past, with 4 fogging machines, it took us about 5 days to fog every area of a 2,200 passenger ship. We could do it faster, but there are many crewmembers living and working on the ship, who must be moved around to avoid breathing the chemicals.

[Hlitner]

25 minutes ago, Donald said:

This system is not new. Most cruise ships have had portable foggers onboard for at least a decade. They are used whenever there is a major Norovirus outbreak on a ship.

Employees who operate the foggers must wear hazmat suits and respirators.

The areas that are fogged must be absent of people and food.

Nobody is allowed to enter the area for about 12 hours after the fogging is complete.

The chemicals being used in the foggers have warnings about respiratory issues from breathing the fog.

 

In the past, with 4 fogging machines, it took us about 5 days to fog every area of a 2,200 passenger ship. We could do it faster, but there are many crewmembers living and working on the ship, who must be moved around to avoid breathing the chemicals.

The problem is that you can get a ship 100% virus and bacteria free (this actually will never happen) and then one passenger or crew member brings aboard a virus the following day.   Ships could be perfectly safe places except that they allow people to come aboard.  Once you have people (be it passengers or crew) all bets are off.

 

Hank

[broberts]

With over eight million cubic feet to fog I doubt the process would be affordable on a regular basis. Besides, as others have pointed out the process does nothing to prevent the primary means of COVID-19 transmission, person to person.

[Sue from Canada]

5 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

I've been a proponent of the thorough cleaning of the ship for  a full day when returning to the disembarkation port for years because of Norovirus. There is no way the ship can be cleaned really well when 6000 passengers are off the ship by 10:30 and 6000 more are starting to board at 11:30. 

Exactly.  I always wondered how often the carpets in the cabin were cleaned.  Especially after someone was sick, may had incontinence issues and other.  I always wore slippers and always had the cabin steward remove the duvet and any blankets. In future, cruise lines should remove carpets and replace them with tile, vinyl flooring or hardwood.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by Sue from Canada

[MISTER 67]

13 hours ago, Sue from Canada said:

Exactly.  I always wondered how often the carpets in the cabin were cleaned.  Especially after someone was sick, may had incontinence issues and other.  I always wore slippers and always had the cabin steward remove the duvet and any blankets. In future, cruise lines should remove carpets and replace them with tile, vinyl flooring or hardwood.  

Glad you agree. Ever look under the bed in your cabin, they are pretty bad. Here's an comforting thought, most of the cabins we've been in have roach traps under the bed.

[bennybear]

13 hours ago, Sue from Canada said:

Exactly.  I always wondered how often the carpets in the cabin were cleaned.  Especially after someone was sick, may had incontinence issues and other.  I always wore slippers and always had the cabin steward remove the duvet and any blankets. In future, cruise lines should remove carpets and replace them with tile, vinyl flooring or hardwood.  

 

In Europe we have noticed they have gone to hard wood floors in most hotels, a great idea!   

Sue, curious by what you mean by duvets?  I would freeze without covers.  Or do you mean those small decorative little covers.  I take them and the decorative pillows off but the stewards always seem to replace them.   I think anything not laundered between passengers needs to be removed permanently.

Edited June 11, 2020 by bennybear

[kazu]

1 hour ago, MISTER 67 said:

Glad you agree. Ever look under the bed in your cabin, they are pretty bad. Here's an comforting thought, most of the cabins we've been in have roach traps under the bed.

 

WOW!

 

We store our suitcases under the bed and I always look under before we do it.  I've never seen a roach trap, ever.  And if I see anything I don't like, I ask to have it vacuumed first.  So far, that has not happened on HAL.  It did on another cruise line.

[MISTER 67]

45 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

WOW!

 

We store our suitcases under the bed and I always look under before we do it.  I've never seen a roach trap, ever.  And if I see anything I don't like, I ask to have it vacuumed first.  So far, that has not happened on HAL.  It did on another cruise line.

Our last cruise was in December on the Nieuw Amsterdam and there was a roach trap next to the desk and behind a curtain leading to the verandah.

[bEwAbG]

The original advice to not wear masks was also partly based on the fear that there would be a huge run on the limited supply that was needed for first responders at the time.  Remember when you couldn't buy toilet paper because people were being irrational?  They were trying to prevent that situation with protective gear that was urgently needed elsewhere until production could be ramped up.

 

I also question why one would ever expect that the first thing said during a situation that was changing day-to-day should be the basis for never accepting new advice.  Lots of people seemed to have formed definite opinions & are digging their heels in based on early information that changed along the way.  Isn't that just cutting off your nose to spite your face? 

[Sue from Canada]

12 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

Glad you agree. Ever look under the bed in your cabin, they are pretty bad. Here's an comforting thought, most of the cabins we've been in have roach traps under the bed.

I've never looked under the beds.  Now I know not to 😨

[Sue from Canada]

12 hours ago, bennybear said:

 

In Europe we have noticed they have gone to hard wood floors in most hotels, a great idea!   

Sue, curious by what you mean by duvets?  I would freeze without covers.  Or do you mean those small decorative little covers.  I take them and the decorative pillows off but the stewards always seem to replace them.   I think anything not laundered between passengers needs to be removed permanently.

I have the steward remove everything from my bed except for sheets and pillows.  I like to sleep in a cool cabin.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Sue from Canada