P&O please enlighten us with your plans for social distancing

[Converted to cruising]

Nic6318.

Hey.... that’s a bit harsh!! If you read my comment earlier on in this thread I’m willing to give it a go as I’m confident that p and o and other cruise lines priorities will be to keep everyone safe. If they don’t think it’s safe we won’t sail. I’ve thought long and hard about my booking and made the decision that in 15/16 weeks they will have new safety regulations and rules which I am willing to abide by and if I don’t like them I won’t cruise again until things are more normal .....if they ever are. To call me and others un caring is insulting as we all make decisions for different reasons. You don’t know me or my reasons for going so please don’t make assumptions about me or anyone else. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion and you choose not to go so please respect other peoples decisions to try it out. I’m sure you’ll be happy to read the feedback we put on here when we get back safely (as I’m sure we will ! ) so maybe reserve your very personal remarks and assumptions till then. 

[panamapd]

Ok - how about we help the cruise lines out with  ideas for future protocols!

Imagine you are in your cabin and a crew member arrives to let you know that unfortunately, a passenger is showing signs of infection for covid or has tested positive. You are then told you MUST stay in your cabin and they will bring any of your cohorts back to the cabin.  You are then all holed up in your cabin.  

If any passenger for any other health reason are in an inside cabin and they request a different cabin - they MUST be moved to an ocean view cabin or balcony cabin. Obviously this depends on how long it will take to get back to a UK port!

With regard to ports, the cruise lines should be working with overseas governments to achieve assurance  that if a passenger/passengers requires IMMEDIATE hospitalisation, they and their family members must be able to disembark and if necessary quarantine there.  (Their repatriation to be sorted out at a later date).  All other passengers MUST remain onboard and  be returned to a UK port.

With regard to all the other passengers.  We will be isolating in our cabin.  ALL drinks should be free flowing.  There should be FREE unlimited wifi.  There should be no denigration in the choice of food!

The UK ports will then be on full alert that passengers will be disembarking at other ports and not just Southampton.  Passengers can be disgorged in Hull, Liverpool, Newcastle, etc. On arrival at the port  mini-buses or taxis will take  passengers back home.  

On arrival at the port, all passengers MUST  reconfirm the screening questionnaire they gave to the cruise line before boarding.  Passengers will then be required to quarantine for at least 7 days.  This can be checked by the local police.  With the ensuing press interest in the ship arriving with said passengers, I am imagine this should be easy to enforce!

Finally, affected passengers will be refunded their cruise fare!

What do you think?! Be kind!

 

[No pager thank you]

34 minutes ago, panamapd said:

Ok - how about we help the cruise lines out with  ideas for future protocols!

Imagine you are in your cabin and a crew member arrives to let you know that unfortunately, a passenger is showing signs of infection for covid or has tested positive. You are then told you MUST stay in your cabin and they will bring any of your cohorts back to the cabin.  You are then all holed up in your cabin.  

If any passenger for any other health reason are in an inside cabin and they request a different cabin - they MUST be moved to an ocean view cabin or balcony cabin. Obviously this depends on how long it will take to get back to a UK port!

With regard to ports, the cruise lines should be working with overseas governments to achieve assurance  that if a passenger/passengers requires IMMEDIATE hospitalisation, they and their family members must be able to disembark and if necessary quarantine there.  (Their repatriation to be sorted out at a later date).  All other passengers MUST remain onboard and  be returned to a UK port.

With regard to all the other passengers.  We will be isolating in our cabin.  ALL drinks should be free flowing.  There should be FREE unlimited wifi.  There should be no denigration in the choice of food!

The UK ports will then be on full alert that passengers will be disembarking at other ports and not just Southampton.  Passengers can be disgorged in Hull, Liverpool, Newcastle, etc. On arrival at the port  mini-buses or taxis will take  passengers back home.  

On arrival at the port, all passengers MUST  reconfirm the screening questionnaire they gave to the cruise line before boarding.  Passengers will then be required to quarantine for at least 7 days.  This can be checked by the local police.  With the ensuing press interest in the ship arriving with said passengers, I am imagine this should be easy to enforce!

Finally, affected passengers will be refunded their cruise fare!

What do you think?! Be kind!

 

Hello, thank you for posting.  This may be a good idea for a new thread, for those who either wish to, or are happy to, speculate.

 

My initial thoughts:

 

This approach would be more difficult to enforce for Barbados fly cruises, where passengers may need to quarantine prior to being able to repatriate.  The same would apply to any cruise not departing from UK i.e. Malta and Dubai.

 

You would have to provide a lot of "spare" balconies, so as to allow quarantining passengers to fresh air, as well as daylight, which would be very hard for cruise companies to operate financially. 

 

The thought of being confined to an inside cabin on a long journey back to Blighty, particularly if I was in a three or four passenger berth just feels like prison!

 

It would be hard to guarantee, without ship wide testing of ship's company, whether any of them have either introduced the virus, or have contracted from the passenger/s showing symptoms.  This causes a difficult issue around serving food and refreshments and creates a possibility of community transmission which has to be minimised.

 

The reality of "cabin cough" and normal bugs and gastrointestinal issues on a cruise ship with an older clientele means that you would have to see a confirmed cluster of cases of COVID to justify this type of extreme measure.  The problem is, on a cruise with several thousand passengers, you are always going to have a handful fall unwell, most usually for incidental reasons which are nothing to do with the cruise.  All sorts of overreacting could take place.

 

Instead, what is needed in this awful scenario (where you have a cluster) would be to debark either all of the passengers and ships company (or, if possible a defined cluster) asap at the nearest port, with prior contingency arrangements agreed, and to change the environment where they are quarantining - such that they all have access to fresh air in an environment believed to be sterile, without access to other people - beyond essentials. 

 

The directly affected passenger/s and their cabin bubble go directly to the medical centre.

 

In this extreme scenario, every passenger and crew member is repeat tested and then repatriated, immediately after a negative incubation period at the expense of the company - who then claim on whatever liability insurance they have. 

 

Infected passengers/crew may either recuperate at this place, or be hospitalised as their clinical conditions direct.  The empty ship itself is quarantined and specialist cleaned top to toe.  Ships company can be returned to the ship after the above and return the ship to Southampton / next pick up.  There may be an option for some "Covid-19" passengers to go back on the ship, if they cannot be repatriated by other means, for medical reasons.

 

Essentially, the model is similar to what early arrivals did back to the UK who went to the Wirral or Milton Keynes - just abroad.  Of course, this country would provide reciprocal measures where it happens to be the nearest country of relief for a different cruise liner.

 

The problem with the model is the attitude of governments and local populations to accept risk share and see us all as one, as opposed to a problem to be kept at bay.  Hence why this is extremely difficult for the cruise companies.

 

Hope that this is a helpful contribution to your initial thoughts.

[grapau27]

On 7/4/2020 at 8:40 PM, No pager thank you said:

Hi Andy, no problem at all. I think that it is perfectly reasonable to come at this the way you do.  Hopefully my posts come across in the same way.

 

You are probably right about what they will end up doing.

 

Where I do disagree is that there is a way of treating people like adults and avoiding lying.... i.e. we are in uncertain times, we realise that many customers have wanted an update...our current thinking is...

 

Even, we are optimistic / still uncertain about a restart in operations on 15th October....it's hard for us to predict the future accurately, our current assessment is...

 

Personally, I would advocate this type of path, but it's not clear cut.  I wouldn't advocate a daily commentary or anything like that, just something which seems to be keeping up with the changes to the pandemic restrictions today.

 

Hope that helps explain how I'm seeing this differently?

Previously I would have taken P&O word as truthful but after the refund fiasco 'who Knows'?.

[No pager thank you]

2 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Previously I would have taken P&O word as truthful but after the refund fiasco 'who Knows'?.

I know, perhaps best now for them to try and mitigate the damage.  I do feel convinced now, in a way that I was less convinced say three months ago, that P&O will lose out in the long-run as a result of their response to the pandemic - objectively speaking they seem to be "below par" now when it comes to perceptions of trustworthiness from a growing number of their customers.  Whatever they do with Oceana won't help on that front either.  I think that they will be forced to cut prices in 2022 to recapture the market.  

 

In the court of public opinion, the fact that all travel companies have struggled - to a point - won't help them greatly. Those willing to try other lines (or land based holidays, which are proving easier to refund in some, but not all cases) will largely assume that they have better customer service than P&O - unless they have been tracking matters very closely, which most haven't.  Some are of course worse than P&O but once bitten, twice shy might apply.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, panamapd said:

If any passenger for any other health reason are in an inside cabin and they request a different cabin - they MUST be moved to an ocean view cabin or balcony cabin. Obviously this depends on how long it will take to get back to a UK port!

Well, how do you guarantee a balcony cabin ?

[ToxM]

4 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Well, how do you guarantee a balcony cabin ?

 

Maybe the trick is to not offer anymore insides... 

 

[kalos]

Just adding to the thread ,maybe what the future passengers will expect from the cruise lines 

or what they would now accept.

Some holidays entail long haul flights which people have enjoyed as part of the holiday,maybe 

the aircraft or the meal service supplied.

We have enjoyed some long hauls even as part of our cruises but watching a recent film leaves me asking 

"would it be for us ?"  It seemed like all the fun/pleasure had been taken away .

Will the cruise ships go down the same route ? Who knows ? We will have to wait and see.

I've put the film below .. Is this the future for travel ?

 

 

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, ToxM said:

 

Maybe the trick is to not offer anymore insides... 

 

I think that is the way to go.

No more cheap cruises - if you want a balcony cabin if the virus strikes, pay for it!

[No pager thank you]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think that is the way to go.

No more cheap cruises - if you want a balcony cabin if the virus strikes, pay for it!

I can see "likes" to that post popping up from Carnival House, even at this late weekend hour Wowzz 🤣

 

My own view, if the virus strikes, is that I want to be off that ship pdq - suite, mini conservatory, balcony or whatever, with as close to zero contact with anyone else as possible.

 

In the intervening period just have a large bottle of spirit handy however humble or grand my present abode ...😉

 

[No pager thank you]

1 hour ago, kalos said:

Just adding to the thread ,maybe what the future passengers will expect from the cruise lines 

or what they would now accept.

Some holidays entail long haul flights which people have enjoyed as part of the holiday,maybe 

the aircraft or the meal service supplied.

We have enjoyed some long hauls even as part of our cruises but watching a recent film leaves me asking 

"would it be for us ?"  It seemed like all the fun/pleasure had been taken away .

Will the cruise ships go down the same route ? Who knows ? We will have to wait and see.

I've put the film below .. Is this the future for travel ?

 

 

I watched the video - although slightly distracted by the slightly weird narration and the odd studio which looked like a 20 year to do list never touched.

 

My main conclusion was that some of the savvy air lines have used the crisis to quietly engineer in overheard coat reduction measures...cruise lines will do the same - to pick up lost revenue and increased regulatory / compliance cost.

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I can see "likes" to that post popping up from Carnival House, even at this late weekend hour Wowzz 🤣

 

My own view, if the virus strikes, is that I want to be off that ship pdq - suite, mini conservatory, balcony or whatever, with as close to zero contact with anyone else as possible.

 

In the intervening period just have a large bottle of spirit handy however humble or grand my present abode ...😉

 

You may will want to be off the ship pdq, but in the current environment that is very unlikely. 

Another reason why cruising is going to be problematic in the future.

 

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I watched the video - although slightly distracted by the slightly weird narration and the odd studio which looked like a 20 year to do list never touched.

 

My main conclusion was that some of the savvy air lines have used the crisis to quietly engineer in overheard coat reduction measures...cruise lines will do the same - to pick up lost revenue and increased regulatory / compliance cost.

BA have already done this - the meal offering has been substantially reduced, supposedly due to CV19.  I fail to see how dishing out a £3 meal is any different to dishing out a £1 meal. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by wowzz

[No pager thank you]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

BA have already done this - the meal offering has been substantially reduced, supposedly due to CV19.  I fail to see how dishing out a £3 meal is any different to dishing out a £1 meal. 

Of course BA quietly introduced the M&S snack range in economy a while ago and got rid of the complimentary beverage, so their form is known.

 

It's not really, just saves quite a few £2's.

[No pager thank you]

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

You may will want to be off the ship pdq, but in the current environment that is very unlikely. 

Another reason why cruising is going to be problematic in the future.

 

Yes, I agree.  Question is how comfortable one feels with that worst case scenario.  It does worry me I'll be honest, but then I do want to be able to live my life, Carpe Diem etc.  It will need careful thought.

 

That's the big question that none of the cruise restart protocols are going near, thinking back to February...you just have to pray that never happens again, whatever your views on how sensible current plans are.

 

Mind you, even choosing not to go, and you happen to live in a place affected by "whack a mole," you just can't exclude the risk entirely. 

 

I'll fetch my bottle of spirits!!😱

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Of course BA quietly introduced the M&S snack range in economy a while ago and got rid of the complimentary beverage, so their form is known.

 

It's not really, just saves quite a few £2's.

To be fair, BoB is only on short haul routes. The food in PE on LH is not bad since the upgrade, especially as you can pre-select your main course from the club menu on the outbound sector.

The removal of drinks and food might only save £2 per passenger, but that equates to millions if pounds over a year.

Having said that, BA has gone down the penny pinching  route so far, that it is now my carrier of last resort. 

  

[ToxM]

18 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I can see "likes" to that post popping up from Carnival House, even at this late weekend hour Wowzz 🤣

 

My own view, if the virus strikes, is that I want to be off that ship pdq - suite, mini conservatory, balcony or whatever, with as close to zero contact with anyone else as possible.

 

In the intervening period just have a large bottle of spirit handy however humble or grand my present abode ...😉

 

 

You bring up an interesting point ... maybe the days of many sea days in one voyage are gone, maybe itineraries will hug coasts and be relatively local so if there is an outbreak the whole ship can be debarked easily.

 

Regarding my comments about insides...if they want to cut occupancy, the cheapest cabins are more likely to go first. Cruising is about to get a lot more expensive and a lot more exclusive. 

 

This would be another reason I would urge people to use their FCC/not get a refund as the latest rounds of published and planned itineraries may well be the last at the kind of price point that a lot of people will be able to afford. 

 

I can see big ships being written off, smaller premium lines flourishing with their small to medium ships and increased passenger space ratio and the price point increasing to match. 

 

 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

17 minutes ago, wowzz said:

 

Yes, I agree.  Question is how comfortable one feels with that worst case scenario.

Good question. My feeling is that I will not put myself in an uncomfortable situation for the forseeable future, but my criteria are purely personal. Yes, I will fly, yes I will stay in a private villa, but no, I will not stay in a holiday hotel, and no, I will not go on a cruise.

[No pager thank you]

2 minutes ago, ToxM said:

 

You bring up an interesting point ... maybe the days of many sea days in one voyage are gone, maybe itineraries will hug coasts and be relatively local so if there is an outbreak the whole ship can be debarked easily.

 

Regarding my comments about insides...if they want to cut occupancy, the cheapest cabins are more likely to go first. Cruising is about to get a lot more expensive and a lot more exclusive. 

 

This would be another reason I would urge people to use their FCC/not get a refund as the latest rounds of published and planned itineraries may well be the last at the kind of price point that a lot of people will be able to afford. 

 

I can see big ships being written off, smaller premium lines flourishing with their small to medium ships and increased passenger space ratio and the price point increasing to match. 

 

 

Strangely enough, I see Carnival going down the "go big or go home" line, stack them even higher, sell them even cheaper route.  I might be completely wrong on this of course.

 

The problem is that the traditional, seasoned, loyal, potentially wealthy cruising clientele will not stand for too much covert cost cutting, too much change to their cruise experience, and will also be possibly the most recalcitrant about boarding due to health and other factors. 

 

"New generation" cruisers will need to be attracted by price.

 

True, high end, luxury cruising may well thrive, but the four / five star lines might get squeezed.  Why pay £250+ a night for Azura for instance, if better is available elsewhere?

[molecrochip]

9 minutes ago, ToxM said:

Regarding my comments about insides...if they want to cut occupancy, the cheapest cabins are more likely to go first. Cruising is about to get a lot more expensive and a lot more exclusive. 

May I cross reference this post to the posts about 2021 prices being so high. I would suggest that capacity management is already in play.

[wowzz]

I would suggest that the "mystique " about cruising, especially for the under 40s,  is rapidly diminishing.  A cruise ship is basically a floating resort, and has to compete with the likes of AI resorts all over the world. Hence the creation of attractions such as go karting,  climbing walls etc. that other lines have developed. 

P&O are currently stuck in no man's land. The fans of the smaller ships are dying off,  and the new, larger ships do not have sufficient mass market appeal.  To use a nautical expression, they are drifting, with no obvious sense of direction. 

[ToxM]

16 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Strangely enough, I see Carnival going down the "go big or go home" line, stack them even higher, sell them even cheaper route.  I might be completely wrong on this of course.

 

The problem is that the traditional, seasoned, loyal, potentially wealthy cruising clientele will not stand for too much covert cost cutting, too much change to their cruise experience, and will also be possibly the most recalcitrant about boarding due to health and other factors. 

 

"New generation" cruisers will need to be attracted by price.

 

True, high end, luxury cruising may well thrive, but the four / five star lines might get squeezed.  Why pay £250+ a night for Azura for instance, if better is available elsewhere?

 

Well I agree re that price point for Azura - who knows if P&O will weather this storm in it’s current form. 

 

I cannot really see how the mega ships will survive - they are far too much of a risk at current capacity levels. I did see somewhere that the big ships can pull a profit at 30% occupancy, maybe that will be the way forward, but we have to factor in the countries that will welcome the behemoths. 

 

The first ship that has a Diamond Princess event when cruising resumes will be the death blow for that line.

[ToxM]

18 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

May I cross reference this post to the posts about 2021 prices being so high. I would suggest that capacity management is already in play.

 

I have two cruises booked for next year. A premium luxury line small ship for May which I fully expect to sail without the normal demographic of Americans as it is Southampton - Southampton and was an absolute stinking bargain compared to their past Soton - Soton sailings. Then Arcadia in a suite in October. This is a rebook x2 from the previous cruise this October which was then rebooked to a 16 nighter on Arcadia in a suite then changed again to take advantage of a very attractive deal for a trip to Norway. I think I jumped as soon as I was able with the cruise this year and just chopped and changed til I found (for whatever reason) a very cheap deal. There was deals to be had for 2021 but the large number of people rebooking is raising up the prices i do agree. 

 

 

[ann141]

21 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

May I cross reference this post to the posts about 2021 prices being so high. I would suggest that capacity management is already in play.

I have noticed 2021 prices have increased just in the last week- The cruise I am due to sail on in January has increased by £400pp! and a shorter cruise(14 days)on Iona in february has increased by £150 in a few days

[wowzz]

26 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Why pay £250+ a night for Azura for instance, if better is available elsewhere?

Some people already pay that for a suite on Azura!