Donald says to early for protocols

[jimbo5544]

 

Thoughts?

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23256-early-for-protocols-for-u-s-cruising-says-donald.html

[RWolver672]

This sentence bothers me "There is no reason to be talking about a lot of protocols if we’re not sailing anybody.”

 

To me, the protocols should be set up before they  even think about sailing anybody.

[stormy_weatherman]

I think this just further underscores that there are no concrete plans for cruising to resume anytime soon, likely for the remainder of 2020. He said it himself, "we've got to let this thing play out a bit". 

[figmentfreak]

I think it's smart.  I'm sure they have protocols in draft, but let's face it, the more doctors learn about COVID19 those protocols will change.  Why put out official protocols out until you know you're going to be sailing and you have the most up-to-date medical  opinions.

 

He's right about the temp checks.  They don't mean squat.  I could have COVID, be asymptomatic, and not running a fever, making me a super spreader without even knowing it.

 

I think the biggest problem for the cruise lines is not what protocols they're putting in place, it's what happens if someone does test positive after the ship has sailed.  As seen previously, many ports are unwilling to let anyone off the ship once one person is confirmed.  If I were the cruise line that would be one of my top priorities to have a plan in place for also.

Edited July 20, 2020 by figmentfreak

[mouche]

Actually, I think he's right, things are constantly changing, we do need to wait a bit and then see what protocols are needed, instead of making them, and possibly having to change them.

[Honolulu Blue]

38 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Thoughts?

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Mr. Donald's basic message hasn't changed since May, which can be frustrating for some of us in the peanut gallery who either (1) want to know how things will go, just because or (2) want to pick apart every little thing.

[Elaine5715]

It would be a public relations nightmare if Carnival announced any protocols while the CDC is flexing on cruise lines.  They could offer to house all guests in a 5 star  hotel pre and post cruise for 14 days with hourly testing plus private party transportation to and from home and the CDC would demand 28 days stays, testing every 30 minutes and using their nephews' limo service.   

[crewsweeper]

Very tough to develop protocols for sea. 

There are emerging pre-peer reviewed studies to indicate 80% of new infections come from only 20% of people inflected, but nothing that indicates any physical characteristics that define who those 20% are.  Also appearing that pre-symptomatic (has virus but doesn't show on tests) and asymptomatic(has virus but no symptoms and will show on tests) people can transmit via respiratory but once symptoms are showing people are contagious for only a short period of time (less than 4 days).   No way any pre-cruise test will cover that.

Japan uses a 3Cs protocol:  Avoid closed indoor spaces with poor ventilation; avoid crowds; avoid close contact settings.   Seems to work with masks for them.  No way will that type of protocol work on a cruise ship.  Can't even get it to work on land in the US.

[jimbo5544]

29 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

It would be a public relations nightmare if Carnival announced any protocols while the CDC is flexing on cruise lines.  They could offer to house all guests in a 5 star  hotel pre and post cruise for 14 days with hourly testing plus private party transportation to and from home and the CDC would demand 28 days stays, testing every 30 minutes and using their nephews' limo service.   

Love the term CDC flexing on cruise lines

 

[beerman2]

28 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

It would be a public relations nightmare if Carnival announced any protocols while the CDC is flexing on cruise lines.  They could offer to house all guests in a 5 star  hotel pre and post cruise for 14 days with hourly testing plus private party transportation to and from home and the CDC would demand 28 days stays, testing every 30 minutes and using their nephews' limo service.   

Maybe people need to follow some of Chengkp75 posts on NCL board. Having worked for NCL and now in private shipping industry he knows a thing or two about cruise lines.

 

He is pretty adamant that the responsibility falls on the cruise lines and "they" have been dragging their feet,not the CDC. Quite likely many of the minor details have been agreed to, it's the more costly ones cruise lines aren't willing to accept and hoping the CDC will relent.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

It would be a public relations nightmare if Carnival announced any protocols while the CDC is flexing on cruise lines.  They could offer to house all guests in a 5 star  hotel pre and post cruise for 14 days with hourly testing plus private party transportation to and from home and the CDC would demand 28 days stays, testing every 30 minutes and using their nephews' limo service.   

 
The CDC has been very upfront since March about precisely what it's concerned about and why. It's made clear what risks the cruise lines must address in order to sail again. So far, the cruise executives have failed spectacularly. (But note that they haven't stopped selling cruises, they've just stopped sailing them.) 

 

It's convenient to try blaming the CDC. Unfortunately, it's also entirely wrong.

[Elaine5715]

6 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 
The CDC has been very upfront since March about precisely what it's concerned about and why. It's made clear what risks the cruise lines must address in order to sail again. So far, the cruise executives have failed spectacularly. (But note that they haven't stopped selling cruises, they've just stopped sailing them.) 

 

It's convenient to try blaming the CDC. Unfortunately, it's also entirely wrong.

Then explain why the CDC has not prevented airlines from resuming flights to and from China?  

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

6 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Then explain why the CDC has not prevented airlines from resuming flights to and from China?  

Have you actually read the No Sail Order?  It explains very clearly why the cruise industry is being treated as it is.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

 

 And of course, China travel is hardly the concern now ... like most other countries, it has done a vastly better job of dealing with the virus than America has. 

[PhillyFan33579]

10 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Then explain why the CDC has not prevented airlines from resuming flights to and from China?  

Because the CDC is not trying to destroy the airline industry. 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

Maybe people need to follow some of Chengkp75 posts on NCL board. Having worked for NCL and now in private shipping industry he knows a thing or two about cruise lines.

 

He is pretty adamant that the responsibility falls on the cruise lines and "they" have been dragging their feet,not the CDC. Quite likely many of the minor details have been agreed to, it's the more costly ones cruise lines aren't willing to accept and hoping the CDC will relent.

This was from very early on .... and looks to have been tremendously accurate:

https://skift.com/2020/03/10/nothing-could-stop-the-cruise-industry-then-came-coronavirus/
 

[chipmaster]

17 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Then explain why the CDC has not prevented airlines from resuming flights to and from China?  

 

See that bold blue line near ZERO, that is China.   I'd say there is currently low risk for US from most other countries except the Americas, now I can understand why no other country would want anyone from the US.

 

 

[chipmaster]

9 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Because the CDC is not trying to destroy the airline industry. 

 

The CDC isn't trying to destroy any industry, it is trying to contain and reduce the risk for the Pandemic.  The cruise industry is like spectator sports, the football season may be over, doesn't that mean CDC trying to destroy the NFL, NO

[PhillyFan33579]

1 minute ago, chipmaster said:

 

The CDC isn't trying to destroy any industry, it is trying to contain and reduce the risk for the Pandemic.  The cruise industry is like spectator sports, the football season may be over, doesn't that mean CDC trying to destroy the NFL, NO

Name one other industry the CDC has directly ceased all operations? I don’t think the cruise lines have done anything to help themselves in this situation, but the CDC seems to have targeted the cruise lines excessively. 
 

If the CDC was really concerned with reducing this pandemic, they would make it mandatory for everyone to wear masks and enforce social distancing. Of course they couldn’t do this without the support of the government at all levels around the country. 

[chipmaster]

5 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Name one other industry the CDC has directly ceased all operations? I don’t think the cruise lines have done anything to help themselves in this situation, but the CDC seems to have targeted the cruise lines excessively. 
 

If the CDC was really concerned with reducing this pandemic, they would make it mandatory for everyone to wear masks and enforce social distancing. Of course they couldn’t do this without the support of the government at all levels around the country. 

 

"No, I want people to have a certain freedom. And I don't believe in that, no. I don't believe in the statement that if everyone wore a mask, everything disappears... Everybody who is saying don't wear a mask -- all of sudden everybody's got to wear a mask, and as you know masks cause problems, too. With that being said, I'm a believer in masks. I think masks are good."

 

A different prospective we claim to be a free country for everyone of all means/health/color to pursue their  dreams unencumbered, then shouldn't we require the citizens / residents to adopt behavior that enables that for all people.         Because we allow people freedom doesn't mean I'm free to behave in a way that puts other at risk.   Why should I obey the speed limit, cover my mouth and I cough, not be able to shoot off a gun in my backyard at will, it's a free country!

[evandbob]

Perhaps the cruise line execs are quite busy lining up their own retirement/reorganization packages to think about how the public can safely sail again.

 

If they can't devise safety protocols, then they should be fired before they grab the biggest pieces of the sinking corporations assets for their own use.  I don't want to hear about the execs getting crazy high bonuses to guide the lines through bankruptcy and reorganization.

 

These are the same clowns that couldn't devise ecological safety plans when ordered by a US Judge. Who needs them?

[cruizergal70]

3 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

It would be a public relations nightmare if Carnival announced any protocols while the CDC is flexing on cruise lines.  They could offer to house all guests in a 5 star  hotel pre and post cruise for 14 days with hourly testing plus private party transportation to and from home and the CDC would demand 28 days stays, testing every 30 minutes and using their nephews' limo service.   

The FED isn't flexing on anyone. With rates spiking all over the country and the huge question Mark of what to do with schools, cruising is taking a rightful backseat.

 

No need for protocols for vacations when America's children could be at risk. Priorities.

[jimbo5544]

38 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Perhaps the cruise line execs are quite busy lining up their own retirement/reorganization packages to think about how the public can safely sail again.

 

If they can't devise safety protocols, then they should be fired before they grab the biggest pieces of the sinking corporations assets for their own use.  I don't want to hear about the execs getting crazy high bonuses to guide the lines through bankruptcy and reorganization.

 

These are the same clowns that couldn't devise ecological safety plans when ordered by a US Judge. Who needs them?

Ummmmm, they control the cruise lines, safety plans?  What safety plans?  

[Honolulu Blue]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Name one other industry the CDC has directly ceased all operations? I don’t think the cruise lines have done anything to help themselves in this situation, but the CDC seems to have targeted the cruise lines excessively. 
 

If the CDC was really concerned with reducing this pandemic, they would make it mandatory for everyone to wear masks and enforce social distancing. Of course they couldn’t do this without the support of the government at all levels around the country. 

 

The CDC has shut down the cruise ship industry (1) because they really do see cruise ships as a major potential infection threat, and (2) because they can.  They don't have enforcement authority over the airlines because the FAA has that, and the FAA has chosen not to use much of its authority so far.  They can't shut down or dictate terms to big indoor stadiums or bars (as much as I think they'd like to) because they don't have the authority.  They can only recommend things.

[Honolulu Blue]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Name one other industry the CDC has directly ceased all operations? I don’t think the cruise lines have done anything to help themselves in this situation, but the CDC seems to have targeted the cruise lines excessively. 
 

If the CDC was really concerned with reducing this pandemic, they would make it mandatory for everyone to wear masks and enforce social distancing. Of course they couldn’t do this without the support of the government at all levels around the country. 

 

The CDC has shut down the cruise ship industry (1) because they really do see cruise ships as a major potential infection threat, and (2) because they can.  They don't have enforcement authority over the airlines because the FAA has that, and the FAA has chosen not to use much of its authority so far.  They can't shut down or dictate terms to big indoor stadiums or bars (as much as I think they'd like to) because they don't have the authority.  They can only recommend things.

[jimbo5544]

Just now, Honolulu Blue said:

 

The CDC has shut down the cruise ship industry (1) because they really do see cruise ships as a major potential infection threat, and (2) because they can.  They don't have enforcement authority over the airlines because the FAA has that, and the FAA has chosen not to use much of its authority so far.  They can't shut down or dictate terms to big indoor stadiums or bars (as much as I think they'd like to) because they don't have the authority.  They can only recommend things.

Maybe the last line should count for everybody.....just sayin