Crystal Cruises

[dockman]

https://thepointsguy.com/news/crystal-cruises-parent-company-financial-trouble/#:~:text=The%20parent%20company%20of%20Crystal%20Cruises%2C%20one%20of%20the%20world's,due%20to%20the%20coronavirus%20crisis.

 

Maybe the Crystal and Star brands will be on the market soon....maybe CCL with more Saudi $$ will end up with them.  Maybe not.

[KirkNC]

I hate to see that.  I believe Crystal offered a very good product.  Unfortunately others may follow suit as time goes on.  If the restrictions on cruising remain in place long enough even the big three are not immune.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

If Genting were to try and spin off Crystal to a new owner who would want them?  Their ships/product are currently in direct competition with brands CCL, NCLH and RCG already own (Cunard, Seabourn, Regent, Oceania, Silversea and Azamara).  Why dilute those offerings with another Luxury brand in your portfolio?  The expedition ships might be of value to NCLH for the Regent Brand or CCL for Seabourn, but the two big ships are too dissimilar to the existing fleets of other luxury operators.  Perhaps RCG might want the two big ships for Azamara and bring them decor wise into the Azamara look, but who has $$ to spend on ship rehabs right now?  Unless Genting can raise additional capital I fear Chapter 7 in the cards for Crystal and Star both.

[AlanF65]

Looks like the owner is pledging stock for more loans, but it sounds like difficult times.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/money/2020/08/21/report-genting-boss-commits-own-stake-for-hong-kong-units-loans-as-pandemic/1895767

 

[dockman]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

I hate to see that.  I believe Crystal offered a very good product.  Unfortunately others may follow suit as time goes on.  If the restrictions on cruising remain in place long enough even the big three are not immune.

if money were no object i would be happy to cruise crystal exclusively....i am fortunate to have done 14 crystal cruises....generally an exceptionally well done product.

[Boatdrill]

Crystal will recover; give them time. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

Crystal is a beloved cruise line, I can't imagine no buyer.  The branding and intellectual property alone are worth pursuing. 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

39 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

Crystal is a beloved cruise line, I can't imagine no buyer.  The branding and intellectual property alone are worth pursuing. 

Sometimes a “beloved” brand is worth more as individual assets acquired by it’s competitors, stripped of the brand, than as an ongoing concern. A great example of this in the travel industry is Pan Am.
 

While Crystal has a sterling reputation with a strongly loyal clientele there may be more value in the current environment to its owners/creditors to sell individual assets than dumping more money into a highly leveraged niche brand. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[Sir PMP]

They are not giving credits to passengers, bad news..

[Stateroom_Sailor]

3 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

Sometimes a “beloved” brand is worth more as individual assets acquired by it’s competitors, stripped of the brand, than as an ongoing concern. A great example of this in the travel industry is Pan Am.
 

While Crystal has a sterling reputation with a strongly loyal clientele there may be more value in the current environment to its owners/creditors to sell individual assets than dumping more money into a highly leveraged niche brand. 

 

I would argue that Pan Am had lost its luster, and was no longer a premier airline.  Had the brand been maintained, it would have been done so purely for nostalgia, which would waste terminal access.   Crystal still stands legitimately amongst the top, and is the preferred and wished for luxury line for many.  From statistics I saw a few years ago, they have highly lucrative passenger spend onboard.  Unlike the airlines, there is no significant pier locked in by Crystal.

 

From my understanding, the larger problem is Genting's mismanagement of funds, and risky expansion into the Asian market.  According to "Traveling with Bruce" on YouTube, they sell and lease back most of their ships, to keep the shipyards flowing.  This contributed to a loss of over $150 Million last year, and $210 Million in 2018.  They may not have many actual assets to sell.

[ski ww]

I wonder if this is just the first of who knows how many more? 

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

From my understanding, the larger problem is Genting's mismanagement of funds, and risky expansion into the Asian market.

 

My memory could be mistaken, but wasn't there Genting money involved in buying Norwegian Cruise Line and/or other cruise lines that were having some financial difficulties at that time?  

[dockman]

yes genting bought NCL in 2000 and sold them in 2007.....star cruises was the semi model for NCL ships...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genting_Hong_Kong

Edited August 22, 2020 by dockman

[KirkNC]

16 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

They are not giving credits to passengers, bad news..

That is bad news indeed.

 

I saw a small cruise line ad the other day (can’t remember which one) and they stated that they put your deposit in a trust account separate from other corporate assets.  I wonder if things get bad enough if other larger lines would consider doing the same.

Edited August 22, 2020 by KirkNC

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, dockman said:

yes genting bought NCL in 2000 and sold them in 2007.

 

Thank you for the information.  

[Stateroom_Sailor]

 

2 hours ago, dockman said:

yes genting bought NCL in 2000 and sold them in 2007.....star cruises was the semi model for NCL ships...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genting_Hong_Kong

 

And if NCL were in a better financial situation, wouldn't it be odd to see them buy Genting now?

 

This wouldn't be the first formerly financially sound company, throw caution to the wind, for aggressive expansion.  I remember the Washington State grocery store Haggen, which had grown from 1 to 18 groceries between 1933-2015.  They decided to purchase 146 Safeway and Albertsons across the west coast, and after a basic remodel, opened broke.  They had no ability to pay for the existing food, their rent, or even their utilities.  Store closings immediately followed.

[wearesiamese]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:49 PM, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

If Genting were to try and spin off Crystal to a new owner who would want them?  Their ships/product are currently in direct competition with brands CCL, NCLH and RCG already own (Cunard, Seabourn, Regent, Oceania, Silversea and Azamara).  Why dilute those offerings with another Luxury brand in your portfolio?  The expedition ships might be of value to NCLH for the Regent Brand or CCL for Seabourn, but the two big ships are too dissimilar to the existing fleets of other luxury operators.  Perhaps RCG might want the two big ships for Azamara and bring them decor wise into the Azamara look, but who has $$ to spend on ship rehabs right now?  Unless Genting can raise additional capital I fear Chapter 7 in the cards for Crystal and Star both.

I beg to differ but only a couple of    he lines you mentioned are luxury lines-only Regent and Sivereas.The others are considered premium  mass market due to their size,  passenger capacity, amenities(or lack thereof).  And unlike the days when my grandmother sailed with HAL,(the 1960's to possibly early 70's) HAL is no longer considered a luxury line, an has en away with many if not most of the things she loved about it😞

Edited August 23, 2020 by wearesiamese

[cruisemom42]

9 hours ago, wearesiamese said:

I beg to differ but only a couple of    he lines you mentioned are luxury lines-only Regent and Sivereas.The others are considered premium  mass market due to their size,  passenger capacity, amenities(or lack thereof).  And unlike the days when my grandmother sailed with HAL,(the 1960's to possibly early 70's) HAL is no longer considered a luxury line, an has en away with many if not most of the things she loved about it😞

 

Isn't Seabourn considered luxury?

 

Anyway, I think the point of the post referenced was to show that each of the 3 major cruise lines already has a luxury brand and possibly a premium brand (not sure exactly where I would place Cunard...). And because of this they are unlikely to be in the market for yet another luxury brand.

[Roz]

Crystal also has a river cruise division.

[wearesiamese]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Isn't Seabourn considered luxury?

 

Anyway, I think the point of the post referenced was to show that each of the 3 major cruise lines already has a luxury brand and possibly a premium brand (not sure exactly where I would place Cunard...). And because of this they are unlikely to be in the market for yet another luxury brand.

sorry I left out Seabourn.. and I do understand what the op was saying, but the fact remains that is apples to oranges comparing the premium to luxury lines 

Edited August 23, 2020 by wearesiamese