Moving on.......Luxury Cruises: from boom to bust? Channel 4

purplesea · December 21, 2020

I think I get it from my mother as she always chats to everyone too. It used to annoy my father and he used to comment that she didn't need to know their life history!!

po go · December 21, 2020

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

As in: http://viz.co.uk/2014/10/15/postman-plod/

Great fan of Viz in its heyday. 😁

had 2 cardboard boxes full but as it said in its injoe got less worth the price increases

Chrisifab · December 22, 2020

Really enjoyed the programme, but have a question...does anyone know which ship the Presenter filmed her pieces in? Looked like a smaller ship?

Also, for Po Go, as an ex crew member, I can assure you we were never given photos of previous passengers. If we remembered you, it’s because you stood out to us as a lovely person.

I haven’t blowdried Mrs Rosenberg, Mrs Sanderson or Mrs Welch’s hair for over 20 years, but I’d spot them in the street if they passed me today and I’d be excited to hear about how they are doing and what they’ve been upto!

Host Sharon · December 22, 2020

8 hours ago, Chrisifab said:

Really enjoyed the programme, but have a question...does anyone know which ship the Presenter filmed her pieces in? Looked like a smaller ship?

Also, for Po Go, as an ex crew member, I can assure you we were never given photos of previous passengers. If we remembered you, it’s because you stood out to us as a lovely person.

I haven’t blowdried Mrs Rosenberg, Mrs Sanderson or Mrs Welch’s hair for over 20 years, but I’d spot them in the street if they passed me today and I’d be excited to hear about how they are doing and what they’ve been upto!

The film company, Firecrest, are based in Glasgow. There are 3 Azamara ships laid up in Glasgow so suspect it could have been one of them for some of the shots. Otherwise most of it was on a RCCI ship. There are a few laid up on the south coast.

terrierjohn · December 22, 2020

19 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

The film company, Firecrest, are based in Glasgow. There are 3 Azamara ships laid up in Glasgow so suspect it could have been one of them for some of the shots. Otherwise most of it was on a RCCI ship. There are a few laid up on the south coast.

Certainly the glitzy atrium and circular stairway shots looked like a Royal Caribbean ship.

WECRUISEUK · December 22, 2020

"From boom to bust"from channel 4,so not much of a suprise that they focused quite a bit on the negative side of things.The couple on the barge(photographer),when he said how he threw bags of rubbish overboard at night in the 80's and she was laughing.Complete idiots,not only for him doing it and her laughing at it,he went on national t.v. and admitted it.As Sharon has said she was interviewed over three hours and they just seemed to pick out what sort of content their agenda was looking for.From what was said overall we think cruising is well on it's way for more success once next years cruising starts up again.Valid points were,over the next 7 years there are orders for £60 billion for cruise ships.The new ship,"Symphony of the seas",which can hold about 6000 passengers,will cost about £1billion to build and they will recoup that in about 5-6 years.Cruise ships that hold 3000 passengers are looking at profits around £26 million per year.These ships need about 50% occupancy to break even,larger ships need 30%.In 2019 RCL made a profit of around £1.9 billion and this year has seen a loss of £1 billion.This is just a bit of a bad time financially for all companies but nothing they can't handle.This year and next will see the survival of the fittest and the major cruise companies will soon recover from this slight drop in profits.When looking at all these numbers,why wouldn't you feel optimistic?,plus the vaccines here to help and they only have to have 50% occupancy to break even.People like us(wife and me) have always seen cruising as value for money as you can have a different port every day or two.Of course changes are on there way,cruising will have to be for those that have a vaccine,this has to be done.This will be the main course of action that will help P & O and bring back the confidence that's required for cruising.

wowzz · December 22, 2020

1 hour ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

.These ships need about 50% occupancy to break even,larger ships need 30%.

In the discussion on this figure earlier this year, the consensus was that these figures related only to the operating costs of that particular cruise (ie fuel, labour, port fees, consumables etc). The occupancy level required to break even, taking into account depreciation, interest etc, is way, way higher. And that was before the

interest rates that Carnival have had to pay in order to keep the business viable.

Selbourne · December 23, 2020

22 hours ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

"From boom to bust"from channel 4,so not much of a suprise that they focused quite a bit on the negative side of things.The couple on the barge(photographer),when he said how he threw bags of rubbish overboard at night in the 80's and she was laughing.Complete idiots,not only for him doing it and her laughing at it,he went on national t.v. and admitted it.As Sharon has said she was interviewed over three hours and they just seemed to pick out what sort of content their agenda was looking for.From what was said overall we think cruising is well on it's way for more success once next years cruising starts up again.Valid points were,over the next 7 years there are orders for £60 billion for cruise ships.The new ship,"Symphony of the seas",which can hold about 6000 passengers,will cost about £1billion to build and they will recoup that in about 5-6 years.Cruise ships that hold 3000 passengers are looking at profits around £26 million per year.These ships need about 50% occupancy to break even,larger ships need 30%.In 2019 RCL made a profit of around £1.9 billion and this year has seen a loss of £1 billion.This is just a bit of a bad time financially for all companies but nothing they can't handle.This year and next will see the survival of the fittest and the major cruise companies will soon recover from this slight drop in profits.When looking at all these numbers,why wouldn't you feel optimistic?,plus the vaccines here to help and they only have to have 50% occupancy to break even.People like us(wife and me) have always seen cruising as value for money as you can have a different port every day or two.Of course changes are on there way,cruising will have to be for those that have a vaccine,this has to be done.This will be the main course of action that will help P & O and bring back the confidence that's required for cruising.

Don’t forget that the new ship orders mentioned were placed pre Covid. I should think that most cruise lines would be shedding most of their future commitments at a rate of knots if they weren’t contractually committed. Your comment that ‘this is just a bit of a bad time financially’ must be the understatement of the decade! It was mentioned in the programme that the big cruise groups alone are currently haemorrhaging $1bn a month.

I would like to share your optimism about the rapid recovery of the cruise sector, but fear that it will be a long haul. Bookings will be shored up in the short term by all of those using credits from cancelled cruises but, as mentioned in the programme, the industry has moved its market position towards the ‘new to cruising market’. Whilst you will find countless people on this forum who are keen to go on cruises as soon as physically possible, ‘seasoned cruisers’ are no longer the target market and are insufficient in number to fill the new massive ships, such as Iona. Furthermore, as you will see from this forum, many seasoned cruisers dislike the bigger ships (we are not amongst them). I can’t help but feel that a very large number of the ‘new to cruising’ target market will now take a lot more convincing to book their first cruise as a result of Covid and the bad PR that the industry suffered at the outset. There will also be a (smaller) proportion of experienced cruisers who will decide that they will no longer cruise. They all add up. I have heard several industry experts say that it could take 10 years for the industry to recover to where it was heading pre pandemic. I would hope that’s pessimistic and that it might be a lot less than that, but I’d be staggered if it’s less than 5 years.

grapau27 · December 23, 2020

6 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Don’t forget that the new ship orders mentioned were placed pre Covid. I should think that most cruise lines would be shedding most of their future commitments at a rate of knots if they weren’t contractually committed. Your comment that ‘this is just a bit of a bad time financially’ must be the understatement of the decade! It was mentioned in the programme that the big cruise groups alone are currently haemorrhaging $1bn a month.

I would like to share your optimism about the rapid recovery of the cruise sector, but fear that it will be a long haul. Bookings will be shored up in the short term by all of those using credits from cancelled cruises but, as mentioned in the programme, the industry has moved its market position towards the ‘new to cruising market’. Whilst you will find countless people on this forum who are keen to go on cruises as soon as physically possible, ‘seasoned cruisers’ are no longer the target market and are insufficient in number to fill the new massive ships, such as Iona. Furthermore, as you will see from this forum, many seasoned cruisers dislike the bigger ships (we are not amongst them). I can’t help but feel that a very large number of the ‘new to cruising’ target market will now take a lot more convincing to book their first cruise as a result of Covid and the bad PR that the industry suffered at the outset. There will also be a (smaller) proportion of experienced cruisers who will decide that they will no longer cruise. They all add up. I have heard several industry experts say that it could take 10 years for the industry to recover to where it was heading pre pandemic. I would hope that’s pessimistic and that it might be a lot less than that, but I’d be staggered if it’s less than 5 years.

Good points related to P&O which has an older demographic and poor loyalty program.

Royal Caribbean who have a fantastic Crown & Anchor loyalty program with millions of members have said they believe their loyalty members will flock back and they have offered double loyalty points almed at their most loyal customers.

Graham.

Selbourne · December 23, 2020

4 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Good points related to P&O which has an older demographic and poor loyalty program.

Royal Caribbean who have a fantastic Crown & Anchor loyalty program with millions of members have said they believe their loyalty members will flock back and they have offered double loyalty points almed at their most loyal customers.

Graham.

My sense is that P&O may be forced to do a similar thing in a few years time, not whilst occupancy levels are restricted and FCC’s are still being redeemed, but before the ‘new to cruising’ market builds to the volumes necessary to fill the mega ships.

bobstheboy · December 23, 2020

Princess have an excellent loyalty club, they recognise my P&O cruises and my Ocean Village ones, P&O obviously recognise only their own.

wowzz · December 23, 2020

7 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

Princess have an excellent loyalty club, they recognise my P&O cruises and my Ocean Village ones, P&O obviously recognise only their own.

I didn't think they did that any more.

grapau27 · December 23, 2020

1 minute ago, bobstheboy said:

Princess have an excellent loyalty club, they recognise my P&O cruises and my Ocean Village ones, P&O obviously recognise only their own.

Princess loyalty program is a lot better than P&O.

Princess used to give you half points for your P&O sailings but this stopped a few years ago.

Nevertheless with the several Princess cruises and many P&O cruises we did before this stopped it did allow us to become Princess Elite loyalty members.

grapau27 · December 23, 2020

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I didn't think they did that any more.

They don't.

It stopped several years ago.

bobstheboy · December 23, 2020

3 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

They don't.

It stopped several years ago.

I have just signed on and checked my Captains Circle account. I have 2 Ventura, 1 Britannia, 1 Ocean Village 1 and one Ocean Village 2 credited for a total of 68 nights.

Gettingwarmer · December 23, 2020

Just now, bobstheboy said:

I have just signed on and checked my Captains Circle account. I have 2 Ventura, 1 Britannia, 1 Ocean Village 1 and one Ocean Village 2 credited for a total of 68 nights.

Yes they have the old ones but will not add any new cruises taken with P&O

bobstheboy · December 23, 2020

2 minutes ago, Gettingwarmer said:

Yes they have the old ones but will not add any new cruises taken with P&O

Britannia was 3 years ago, so they must have stopped after that.

wowzz · December 23, 2020

55 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

Britannia was 3 years ago, so they must have stopped after that.

Shortly after that, from memory.

WECRUISEUK · December 23, 2020

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Don’t forget that the new ship orders mentioned were placed pre Covid. I should think that most cruise lines would be shedding most of their future commitments at a rate of knots if they weren’t contractually committed. Your comment that ‘this is just a bit of a bad time financially’ must be the understatement of the decade! It was mentioned in the programme that the big cruise groups alone are currently haemorrhaging $1bn a month.

I would like to share your optimism about the rapid recovery of the cruise sector, but fear that it will be a long haul. Bookings will be shored up in the short term by all of those using credits from cancelled cruises but, as mentioned in the programme, the industry has moved its market position towards the ‘new to cruising market’. Whilst you will find countless people on this forum who are keen to go on cruises as soon as physically possible, ‘seasoned cruisers’ are no longer the target market and are insufficient in number to fill the new massive ships, such as Iona. Furthermore, as you will see from this forum, many seasoned cruisers dislike the bigger ships (we are not amongst them). I can’t help but feel that a very large number of the ‘new to cruising’ target market will now take a lot more convincing to book their first cruise as a result of Covid and the bad PR that the industry suffered at the outset. There will also be a (smaller) proportion of experienced cruisers who will decide that they will no longer cruise. They all add up. I have heard several industry experts say that it could take 10 years for the industry to recover to where it was heading pre pandemic. I would hope that’s pessimistic and that it might be a lot less than that, but I’d be staggered if it’s less than 5 years.

I've heard that there's a strong possibility that we could be seeing the last of the big cruise ships and companies will start to go back to the 3000 max. occupancy size.Some have said that P&O could be one of the first to succesfully get going again because of the vaccine roll out.If P&O make it a ruling that only those with a vaccine can cruise then the're recovery could be first.The big cruise groups are not loosing £1 billion a month,this number is what they could have earned.I could say that i've lost £46k this year,i haven't lost £46k at all,it's what i could have earned.These experts are giving out assumptions all the time.I prefer to be a lot more optimistic than most,all we seem to be fed is doom and gloom.

I'm going to stand by my "financial" comment because for quite some time,possibly decades,the big names in the cruise industry have been making money which can easily cover a bad patch,as it was said on the programme,they need 50% occupancy to break even,when did you last cruise with less than 50% occupancy?You say recovery will be a long haul........why?,we have a vaccine,this time next year cruising will be close to full flow and only allowing passengers on with a vaccine.That will be the confidence booster that we're waiting for,i'm feeling quite confident about cruising.The ports of call could be an issue and will only allow people on shore that have had a vaccine,airports as well.........that's the future.

wowzz · December 23, 2020

18 minutes ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

,they need 50% occupancy to break even

Break even on variable costs only. They still make a whopping loss st 50%.

18 minutes ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

If P&O make it a ruling that only those with a vaccine can cruise then the're recovery could be first.

So just the old, those with major health problems and selected key workers will be allowed to cruise then, for most of 2021.

Edited December 23, 2020 by wowzz

wowzz · December 23, 2020

18 minutes ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

I've heard that there's a strong possibility that we could be seeing the last of the big cruise ships and companies will start to go back to the 3000 max. occupancy size

Has anyone told the ship yards and the CEO's of this possibility?

Doesn't seem to be reflected in future orders.

WECRUISEUK · December 23, 2020

6 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Break even on variable costs only. They still make a whopping loss st 50%.

So just the old, those with major health problems and selected key workers will be allowed to cruise then, for most of 2021.

Up untill about august all the over 45's will be recieving the vaccine,a lot of the older end a lot earlier.I'm sure those at P&O will agree,unless of course you want to allow those in there 20's and 30's without a vaccine to board,.......not me,.......safety first.We both know that P&O are refusing to allow those with major health problems(ventilator support,dialysis and supplementary oxygen)on board,where as those being asked to shield like me are ok.Just to be clear on this,are you saying that you would happily cruise with passengers that have not had the vaccine?

wowzz · December 23, 2020

10 minutes ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

Up untill about august all the over 45's will be recieving the vaccine,a lot of the older end a lot earlier.I'm sure those at P&O will agree,unless of course you want to allow those in there 20's and 30's without a vaccine to board,.......not me,.......safety first.We both know that P&O are refusing to allow those with major health problems(ventilator support,dialysis and supplementary oxygen)on board,where as those being asked to shield like me are ok.Just to be clear on this,are you saying that you would happily cruise with passengers that have not had the vaccine?

Why not? If I have had the vaccine then in theory I will be safe.

WECRUISEUK · December 23, 2020

3 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Why not? If I have had the vaccine then in theory I will be safe.

95% safe,it's the other 5% that worries me,especially being in close proximity to all those that haven't had the vaccine,that's the most worrying part,you can't walk across the road to avoid people.

wowzz · December 23, 2020

12 minutes ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

95% safe,it's the other 5% that worries me,especially being in close proximity to all those that haven't had the vaccine,that's the most worrying part,you can't walk across the road to avoid people.

Nothing in life is without risk.

The 95% I can quite happily live with .

What I can't be doing with on a cruise is masks, social distancing, and not being able to leave the ship, other than on a coach with 50 other people.

Moving on.......Luxury Cruises: from boom to bust? Channel 4

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