Will HAL sell Volendam & Zaandam?

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, fireofficer5 said:

But will HAL survive Carnival?

I think consolidation may occur in the future.  How that will look is anyone’s guess.  I don’t think at this time it would be a wise business decision to upset brand loyalties but once the dust settles .....

[Sir PMP]

2 hours ago, fireofficer5 said:

But will HAL survive Carnival?

Yes, that's the question..

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

I think consolidation may occur in the future.  How that will look is anyone’s guess.  I don’t think at this time it would be a wise business decision to upset brand loyalties but once the dust settles .....

 

58 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Yes, that's the question..

 

Yes, I still believe HAL will survive.  There will be a market for a cruise product that is not a "Fun Ship"  cruise.  Why did Mr. Arison ever have any interest in buying HAL initially?  

 

The issue is Princess Cruises vs. Holland America Line, I think.  If, such an issue eventually develops.  My crystal ball is quite foggy with snow falling this evening as I type this.  

[iceman93]

I agree that, if they were to consolidate brands, merging Princess and HAL could definitely happen.  The big question to me is how they would handle branding from the line's name all the way through the names of the venues on board.  HAL has the heritage and the strong loyalists, but has also been accused of being a dying brand (with an old, dying clientele).  In random focus groups and surveys, I suspect Princess would score higher on the metrics the corporate big-wigs care about.

 

I'm one of those HAL loyalists, so obviously I'd like to see HAL continue.  I think there's a great opportunity for a revamp, especially if they brought in Princess capital to help.  HAL could market strongly on the nostalgia with something like a "we know ocean voyaging" advertising campaign.  And I'd love to see them position slightly upmarket (where I kind of think they were when I discovered them 25 or so years ago)--elegance without pomp, gracious service without ass-kissing, and everything being essentially "a cut above" mainstream lines.

 

They could focus on interesting itineraries and voyages, better-than-average food, and diverse (but not floating amusement park) on-board experiences.  Step up Club HAL, bring back better-than-average entertainment, and drop all the silly cross-marketing with irrelevant partner brands like Oprah, Microsoft, and BB King.  Improve neptune/pinnacle suite perks (e.g. complimentary beverages in the Neptune Lounge), and focus on differentiators like the Dutch heritage, Indonesian/Philipino crew shows, and teak wrap-around walking decks.

 

Seriously, I should stop typing all this stuff on an internet message board and offer my overpriced services as a consultant to HAL!  😄

[Sir PMP]

1 hour ago, iceman93 said:

I agree that, if they were to consolidate brands, merging Princess and HAL could definitely happen.  The big question to me is how they would handle branding from the line's name all the way through the names of the venues on board.  HAL has the heritage and the strong loyalists, but has also been accused of being a dying brand (with an old, dying clientele).  In random focus groups and surveys, I suspect Princess would score higher on the metrics the corporate big-wigs care about.

 

I'm one of those HAL loyalists, so obviously I'd like to see HAL continue.  I think there's a great opportunity for a revamp, especially if they brought in Princess capital to help.  HAL could market strongly on the nostalgia with something like a "we know ocean voyaging" advertising campaign.  And I'd love to see them position slightly upmarket (where I kind of think they were when I discovered them 25 or so years ago)--elegance without pomp, gracious service without ass-kissing, and everything being essentially "a cut above" mainstream lines.

 

They could focus on interesting itineraries and voyages, better-than-average food, and diverse (but not floating amusement park) on-board experiences.  Step up Club HAL, bring back better-than-average entertainment, and drop all the silly cross-marketing with irrelevant partner brands like Oprah, Microsoft, and BB King.  Improve neptune/pinnacle suite perks (e.g. complimentary beverages in the Neptune Lounge), and focus on differentiators like the Dutch heritage, Indonesian/Philipino crew shows, and teak wrap-around walking decks.

 

Seriously, I should stop typing all this stuff on an internet message board and offer my overpriced services as a consultant to HAL!  😄

You said it all.

[Porky55]

On 1/12/2021 at 1:18 PM, DeeDee Groff said:

 

Zaandam is also scheduled for the Grand Africa Voyage sailing RT from Fort Lauderdale on October 10, 2022.  I just received emails on Friday confirming all the previous arrangements, and I am finding it quite a challenge to believe this will be the third consecutive GAV I will have had cancelled!

Princess had no problem cancelling their 2021 WC on Sea Princess when they sold that ship. Corporate Head Office will be able to cancel this Zaandam GAV as well if it to the financial benefit.

[Mickb]

I think that merging Cunard and HAL might be Carnival’s preferred option.

They both have a European pedigree, both tend to cater to a more mature mostly well travelled clientele and both have world wide itineraries . 2 of the Cunard ships and 6 of the HAL ships have essentially the same hull platform.

[rkacruiser]

37 minutes ago, Mickb said:

I think that merging Cunard and HAL might be Carnival’s preferred option.

They both have a European pedigree, both tend to cater to a more mature mostly well travelled clientele and both have world wide itineraries . 2 of the Cunard ships and 6 of the HAL ships have essentially the same hull platform.

 

You make a good point as to hardware of the two brands.  On long voyages, yes, the clientele probably are similar.  On shorter voyages, I don't have sufficient experience to agree or not.  My one QM2 11 day Caribbean cruise a couple of years after she entered service, the clientele/dress code was the same as HAL.  If a formal or semi-formal every night that would "be required" after a merger, the current patrons of HAL would rebel.  

 

Then, regardless of whether it would be a Princess/HAL or a Cunard/HAL merger, what would one do about the ships' names?  HAL has one "royalty":  Koningsdam.  Easily changed to King Willem-Alexander to go along with the "Queens".  (I know, these last two comments are in the "very small potatoes" category.)  

[Mickb]

Just remembered that the 4th Cunard ship presently in build is a Konigsdam platform

[Roz]

I think HAL and Princess are more similar than HAL and Cunard.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

2 hours ago, Mickb said:

I think that merging Cunard and HAL might be Carnival’s preferred option.

They both have a European pedigree, both tend to cater to a more mature mostly well travelled clientele and both have world wide itineraries . 2 of the Cunard ships and 6 of the HAL ships have essentially the same hull platform.

I agree with you

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Mickb said:

Just remembered that the 4th Cunard ship presently in build is a Konigsdam platform

 

I was not aware of this.  But, not surprised.  To me, using ship building platforms for a variety of their ships among different brands is a strength of Carnival Corporation.

[tjcox9]

2 hours ago, Roz said:

I think HAL and Princess are more similar than HAL and Cunard.

Except for ship size, that is probably correct.

[YXU AC*SE]

On 1/12/2021 at 9:28 AM, YXU AC*SE said:

 

Is this not 17 named ships ?    

1. Rotterdam (Borealis)
2. Amsterdam (Bolette)
3. Maasdam (Aegean Myth)
4. Veendam (Aegean Majesty)
5. Pacific Aria  (Aegean Goddess)
6. Pacific Dawn (Satoshi)
7. Oceana (Queen of the Oceans)
8. Costa Victoria (scrap)
9. Costa neoRomantica (Celestyal Experience)
10. Costa Atlantica (tsf to CSSC)
11. Costa Mediterranea (tsf to CSSC)
12. Carnival Fascination (Century Harmony)
13. Carnival Imagination (scrap)
14. Carnival Fantasy (scrap)
15. Carnival Inspiration (scrap)
16. Sun Princess (Pacific World)
17. Sea Princess (Charming)
18.  A yet-unnamed Costa ship (source: CCL's Q3-2019 results call -  https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/21632-five-ships-to-leave-costa-fleet-by-may-2021.html)

 

and, if I were a betting person?  19. Perhaps AIDAcara? (1996 construction, 1200 berths)   

 

Scott. 

 

19. Pacific Princess   source:  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/princess-cruises-announces-pacific-princess-to-leave-the-fleet-301212388.html

[rtdiva]

We too were HAL loyalists until we discovered other lines also had excellent waitstaff,  plus new Televisions, great up to date nightly films in spacious venues interesting guest speakers, easy and accurate room temperature devices AND a pool of staff who would fix anything anytime in your cabin. All within the same price range. 
I wouldn’t mind having the Zaandam replaced for the Grand Africa voyage in 2022,

with much needed newer updates. It’s sort of daunting  to think of being bored on a two month cruise. One can only play trivia so often.

 

On that note every cruise is a something to be lucky to do as we are in the older category of cruisers. How did that happen? 

Ann 

 

 

[kangforpres]

Well since HAL just released World Voyages for 2022 and 2023 utilizing both of these ships I think they will be in the fleet for a while.

 

-P.

[LocoLoco1]

Nobody under 50 much misses Plymouth, Studebaker or Oldsmobile cars; nor Chandris and White Star Lines. Cruising will consolidate further in the name of financial efficiency then niche marketing and advertising types will look hi and lo for customers. Lately, Mega-ships and LNG fuel are all the rage; so times do change. ‘Change or Die’ is more then an idle expression.