Question on proof of Covid shot

[Aplmac]

So how about  a peel-off sticky sticker

that comes off/with actual bottle of vaccine used on you..

- that gets stuck onto your vaccination card,

stating manufacturer's batch number, etc.

along with a rubber stamp and signature, date and time?

I guess the clever dicks will start to counterfeit such stickers too?

[SelectSys]

15 minutes ago, Aplmac said:

So how about  a peel-off sticky sticker

that comes off/with actual bottle of vaccine used on you..

- that gets stuck onto your vaccination card,

stating manufacturer's batch number, etc.

along with a rubber stamp and signature, date and time?

I guess the clever dicks will start to counterfeit such stickers too?

 

With apologies to Dustin Hoffman's neighbor in the movie, "The Graduate."

 

"I've got one word for you, CruiseCritic: blockchain." 

 

https://www.europeanbusinessreview.com/blockchain-can-bring-a-new-way-of-approaching-identity-proof/

https://hbr.org/2017/03/blockchain-will-help-us-prove-our-identities-in-a-digital-world

 

Seriously, vaccination certification could be another application for Blockchain technology.  Not likely as lucrative as crypto currencies such as Bitcoin, but a very good usage nonetheless.

Edited February 7, 2021 by SelectSys

[woldridge]

Our first shot was handwritten info on lot number, medication name, etc. on the card.  Second shot was a sticker with lot number and info affixed to the same card.  Several bottles will have the same lot number.  All prescription medications have a lot number that is recorded for your Rx when it is filled.  Without this tracking they would not know who to contact if the medication is recalled. This has been on-going for years.  Even sample medication is supposed to be labeled and is recorded in a database when given out.  If a doctor does not so this, he/she is violating a federal law. 

[ed01106]

I assume it will be something like the yellow fever form.  If cruise lines mandates it, most people will comply,  I wouldn’t sweat it if others counterfeit their card.  If you are vaccinated you really don’t have much to worry about.   If one or two non-vaccinated people catch it, it shouldn’t impact the cruise.  Being they are claiming to be vaccinated the ship doesn’t need to divert for them to be transported to a medical facility and if they die because they needed a ventilator after forging a vax card the line should escape liability.

[navybankerteacher]

10 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

I assume it will be something like the yellow fever form.  If cruise lines mandates it, most people will comply,  I wouldn’t sweat it if others counterfeit their card.  If you are vaccinated you really don’t have much to worry about.   If one or two non-vaccinated people catch it, it shouldn’t impact the cruise.  Being they are claiming to be vaccinated the ship doesn’t need to divert for them to be transported to a medical facility and if they die because they needed a ventilator after forging a vax card the line should escape liability.

Very broadminded --- but do you think you might "sweat it" if for some reason their not being vaccinated caused your cruise to be diverted - or refused entry to a port you wanted to visit?

Edited February 7, 2021 by navybankerteacher

[ed01106]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

Very broadminded --- but do you think you might "sweat it" if for some reason their not being vaccinated caused your cruise to be diverted - or refused entry to a port you wanted to visit.

Why should it be diverted?  The vaccine renders the disease from lethal to just annoying.  Anyone who has covid should be quarantined in their room until the end of the cruise.  Even people with the vaccine can catch the disease so it should have on impact on being refused entry to a port.  If someone dies because they didn’t get medical treatment due to their own fraud, that isn’t the cruise-lines fault.  They undoubtedly won’t get much sympathy and will become facebook Darwin Award memes. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

Why should it be diverted?  The vaccine renders the disease from lethal to just annoying.  Anyone who has covid should be quarantined in their room until the end of the cruise.  Even people with the vaccine can catch the disease so it should have on impact on being refused entry to a port.  If someone dies because they didn’t get medical treatment due to their own fraud, that isn’t the cruise-lines fault.  They undoubtedly won’t get much sympathy and will become facebook Darwin Award memes. 

You are ignoring the fact that cruise ports might not be as broadminded as you. They might not think it is a good idea to admit infected, or even possibly infected, wise guys who think rules do not apply to them.  It does not matter if the cruise line got lied to or simply did not give a damn about required precautions - some ports are going to play be their rules -- even if cruise lines, or their passengers, seem to think that rules do not apply to them.

 

And even if, as you seem to think, Covid might be simply "annoying" rather than lethal, some ports might still  prefer not to be annoyed.

Edited February 8, 2021 by navybankerteacher

[ed01106]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

You are ignoring the fact that cruise ports might not be as broadminded as you. They might not think it is a good idea to admit infected, or even possibly infected, wise guys who think rules do not apply to them.  It does not matter if the cruise line got lied to or simply did not give a damn about required precautions - some ports are going to play be their rules -- even if cruise lines, or their passengers, seem to think that rules do not apply to them.

 

And even if, as you seem to think, Covid might be simply "annoying" rather than lethal, some ports might still  prefer not to be annoyed.

The vaccine doesn’t stop the spread.  It stops you from dying.  If the ports are saying no to any ship with a covid positive person the vaccine isn’t going to matter much.  

[SelectSys]

8 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

The vaccine doesn’t stop the spread.  It stops you from dying.  If the ports are saying no to any ship with a covid positive person the vaccine isn’t going to matter much.  

 

I think that is the point.  Certain ports don't want undetected, COVID positive passengers coming on shore and infecting unvaccinated locals.  To those ports, it doesn't matter if the vaccinated passenger will live.  The key is what impacts those passengers make on the local community.  Different ports/nations will make different calls.  Canada certainly said no to cruising for another year while Mexico is currently making a play to homeport ships.

Edited February 8, 2021 by SelectSys

[Hlitner]

6 hours ago, ed01106 said:

I assume it will be something like the yellow fever form.  If cruise lines mandates it, most people will comply,  I wouldn’t sweat it if others counterfeit their card.  If you are vaccinated you really don’t have much to worry about.   If one or two non-vaccinated people catch it, it shouldn’t impact the cruise.  Being they are claiming to be vaccinated the ship doesn’t need to divert for them to be transported to a medical facility and if they die because they needed a ventilator after forging a vax card the line should escape liability.

I assume you are kidding.  I will ignore your flippant remarks and ask you what ports are going to accept a ship under your conditions?  Name one!

 

So here is the reality!  If even a single passenger would become sick with COVID (or something that was even possibly COVID) that ship would be denied entry to nearly any port on earth (if you disagree please name the exceptions).  Even if others can "claim" (as you put it) to be vaccinated this would not be acceptable to any country/port.  Not only would they have to prove they were vaccinated, but there would need to be a short quarantine followed by new tests to prove those folks were not asymptomatic spreaders of COVID.  And even that may not be sufficient to get them access to all the airlines.  At the very least, the cruise would have ended with that first case and the remainder of the passengers would have been plunged into that nasty world experienced by many cruise passengers last March/April.

 

Hank

[ed01106]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I assume you are kidding.  I will ignore your flippant remarks and ask you what ports are going to accept a ship under your conditions?  Name one!

 

So here is the reality!  If even a single passenger would become sick with COVID (or something that was even possibly COVID) that ship would be denied entry to nearly any port on earth (if you disagree please name the exceptions).  Even if others can "claim" (as you put it) to be vaccinated this would not be acceptable to any country/port.  Not only would they have to prove they were vaccinated, but there would need to be a short quarantine followed by new tests to prove those folks were not asymptomatic spreaders of COVID.  And even that may not be sufficient to get them access to all the airlines.  At the very least, the cruise would have ended with that first case and the remainder of the passengers would have been plunged into that nasty world experienced by many cruise passengers last March/April.

 

Hank

Right now they aren’t accepting cruise ships period.  And if the criteria to enter a port is nobody on board can have Covid in any form for a ship to dock then the ports may NEVER open at all.  The vaccine doesn’t prevent you from getting Covid, it prevents you from dying from Covid.  Most cruise ships will have people with Covid on them.  Just like it is extremely rare for a ship to sail without a single person having the common cold.  

 

The vaccine isn’t going to get rid of Covid.  It is just going to change it from a deadly pandemic to something akin to a bad common cold.  

 

In a post-Covid-vax world for most people  someone having Covid will be seen as similar to getting the cold or stomach bug.  You don’t want to catch it, but catching isn’t the end of the world either. And the anti-vaxers will be Darwin Award winners.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

Right now they aren’t accepting cruise ships period.  And if the criteria to enter a port is nobody on board can have Covid in any form for a ship to dock then the ports may NEVER open at all.  The vaccine doesn’t prevent you from getting Covid, it prevents you from dying from Covid.  Most cruise ships will have people with Covid on them.  Just like it is extremely rare for a ship to sail without a single person having the common cold.  

 

The vaccine isn’t going to get rid of Covid.  It is just going to change it from a deadly pandemic to something akin to a bad common cold.  

 

In a post-Covid-vax world for most people  someone having Covid will be seen as similar to getting the cold or stomach bug.  You don’t want to catch it, but catching isn’t the end of the world either. And the anti-vaxers will be Darwin Award winners.

When you talk about a "post Covid-vax world" you may well be talking about 20, 30 or even 40 years in the future.  As to vaccines, the truth is that vaccines do not normally prevent somebody from getting infected with a virus or bacteria, but simply give the body the necessary tools to fight off the bug and ultimately destroy it.  The issue for COVID vaccines (yet to be fully answered) is whether a vaccinated person can possibly spread the virus to another (asymptomatic spread).   This asymptomatic spread issue is nothing new with COVID but has not been a topic often mentioned to the general public until now.   I guess if one wanted to get dramatic they could go back to old issues like "Typhoid Mary" to better understand the ramifications of asymptomatic spread.  If asymtomatic spread does remain an issue after a person is vaccinated it may become a very long dark cold winter for both the cruise and travel industries.  Much work needs to be done on the asymtomatic spread issue including studies on each particular vaccine against each virus variant.  When most vaccines get approval by the FDA (and other agencies) they have been under study for several years (most vaccines take over 3 years to get approval and many take 5-7 years) during which time many of these issues have been resolved to the satisfaction of the experts.  But COVID vaccines are different because they are  essentially a work in progress with more knowledge being gained every day.

 

As to your "common cold" comparison I think it is bogus at best.  The problem with COVID is that even with relatively mild cases a  percentage (yet to be determined) are left with long term morbidities (perhaps life long and even life threatening) that are very problematic.  Some have called these victims "long haulers" but that understates the problem.  We are talking of folks who end up with kidney failure (the kidneys do not heal), serious cardiac problems, circulatory disorders (some have needed amputations), brain damage, and more.  

 

So you mention that if COVID keeps ships from docking that Ports may never open.  And perhaps that is just what is going to happen with quite a few ports around the world.  The economic benefits derived from being a cruise port may not be sufficient to sway authorities to reopen ports.  And then you also have the negative feelings towards cruise passengers (go read about the November referendums in Key West) which have now taken on new meaning.

 

Hank

[Charles4515]

7 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

When you talk about a "post Covid-vax world" you may well be talking about 20, 30 or even 40 years in the future.  As to vaccines, the truth is that vaccines do not normally prevent somebody from getting infected with a virus or bacteria, but simply give the body the necessary tools to fight off the bug and ultimately destroy it.  The issue for COVID vaccines (yet to be fully answered) is whether a vaccinated person can possibly spread the virus to another (asymptomatic spread).   This asymptomatic spread issue is nothing new with

 

 

 

On another thread I posted that cruising may never restart. I think most didn't take me seriously but cruises are not essential. It is a possibility. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Charles4515

[Hlitner]

7 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

On another thread I posted that cruising may never restart. I think most didn't take me seriously but cruises are not essential. It is a possibility. 

I sure hope you are wrong :(.  But I also fear the possibility which may be accelerated because of the huge extra debt taken on by all the major cruise lines.  Many might recall that the original financial planning was generally based on the assumption that cruising would resume by the third quarter 2021 and even this was touted as a worse case situation.  Now it appears that if cruising does resume by the third quarter it would be on a very limited basis with most ships still being kept in layup (be it warm or cold).  Without the influx of revenue from the large scale resumption of cruising RCI, CCL and Norwegian Holdings will be dire financial straits.  These companies are all bleeding cash at the rate of hundreds of millions of dollars per month.

 

Hank

[lenquixote66]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:15 PM, Hangman115 said:

I live in the uS. We have laws about HEPPA. Medical privacy laws in the uS.

I see on eBay there are sellers offering a so called proof of vaccaine shot. Some I see are listed as being from (WHO). The World Health Orginization.

Any idea on what proof the cruise ships might need that says i took the shot or shots in the US?  And if you present a card at the port, how will the cruise line verify the card is valid. Will the cruise lines or those at the port. Will they have access to my private health records. Records that by law only my doctors and I should have access too.  I am seeing doctors now and for them to share things, I have to sign a waiver and name who can have access to my records includinf medicine and shots.

So my question is. What kind of PROOF will the cruise line accept that says I have had yje shot? We know, with out personal computers, there will be some who can and will create some form or document that says we had the Covid shot.  So I wonder. What type of proof will the cruise lines accept as "valid"?

The Vaccination card that you were given will suffice.

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

On another thread I posted that cruising may never restart. I think most didn't take me seriously but cruises are not essential. It is a possibility. 

In the US cruising will begin again on July 24,2023.

[Ride-The-Waves]

I've been saying this since March: the "New Normal" for cruising will not look like why we have experienced last ten years nor will be what the cruise lines themselves project.  Many factors to include that the current cruise ship design is inhospitable to what COVID-19 has generated, passengers will be looking for some form of safety from infection, ships have no idea how to comply with CDC safety requirements (none have advanced concepts/tests for safe cruising), ports will not be supportive of a ship disgorging 5,000 passengers for day trips (then think half a dozen of these ships), social distancing on board is still a concept and not a procedure, even dining procedures have yet to be designed and certified.  I could see smaller fleets, ships carrying fewer passengers, higher prices, less selection of itineraries, etc.  Cruising will still be with us, just different.  Maybe as different as that from ocean liners like the original Queens and SS United States to cruise ships of our day.  I would also expect some form of changes in current market cruise ships to accommodate new practices to control COVID.
 

[Ride-The-Waves]

5 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

In the US cruising will begin again on July 24,2023.

Maybe more likely  5 April 2063 (First Contact)

[SelectSys]

3 hours ago, ed01106 said:

In a post-Covid-vax world for most people  someone having Covid will be seen as similar to getting the cold or stomach bug.  You don’t want to catch it, but catching isn’t the end of the world either. And the anti-vaxers will be Darwin Award winners.

 

I guess you are assuming universal vaccine access and the disease doesn't mutate?  COVID is not now nor never will likely be an extinction event.  However, it has been a real "herd culler" of the elderly where good medical care doesn't exist for many.  I guess as a "Darwinist" this is no big deal for you.  For me it is personally sad as I know people who have been lost to the disease as they didn't have the opportunities to get quality medical care.

 

11 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

I could see smaller fleets, ships carrying fewer passengers, higher prices, less selection of itineraries, etc.

 

I believe this could very likely be true - especially the part about higher prices.

[lenquixote66]

5 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Maybe more likely  5 April 2063 (First Contact)

I will not be alive in 2063 .Therefore,2023 is more likely.

[Hangman115]

I I have an opinion. I live in the US. The CDC has yet to decide if  proof of a shot or shots will be required. 

My opion is multiple countries having multiple cards to prove a shot may not work.  Just showing a piece of paper with your name. A date of a shot. And signed by who knows who. Unless there is an International Data Base that the clerks or someone working at a port check in. Unless someone can access all these many government databases and verify the card data, then I see problems. I also know there are employees in some governments. That greasing their palms. Your name can be placed to say you had the shot when you did not. 

 

Just my opinion. What is yours?

[SelectSys]

5 minutes ago, Hangman115 said:

Just my opinion. What is yours?

 

Assuming it becomes a requirement, a block chain-based vaccine certificate would be the best option to prove authenticity of any "card."   

[Charles4515]

43 minutes ago, Hangman115 said:

I I have an opinion. I live in the US. The CDC has yet to decide if  proof of a shot or shots will be required. 

My opion is multiple countries having multiple cards to prove a shot may not work.  Just showing a piece of paper with your name. A date of a shot. And signed by who knows who. Unless there is an International Data Base that the clerks or someone working at a port check in. Unless someone can access all these many government databases and verify the card data, then I see problems. I also know there are employees in some governments. That greasing their palms. Your name can be placed to say you had the shot when you did not. 

 

Just my opinion. What is yours?

 

Is it likely a single international database is possible? Who would create the single database?  The idea of a digital vaccine passport sounds good in theory but it might just be wishful thinking.

 

Hard to take your opinion seriously when you use italics for your whole post. 

[Hangman115]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Is it likely a single international database is possible? Who would create the single database?  The idea of a digital vaccine passport sounds good in theory but it might just be wishful thinking.

 

Hard to take your opinion seriously when you use italics for your whole post. 

I am sorry for using italics.  I admit sometimes I have trouble  ans sometimes might accidently hit the wrong font.  Being blind does give me troubles trying to type at times. Too bad I can't post here in braille. A font I can read better. But then you most likely could not read braille on this website.

Have a Blessed Day

[cruisingguy007]

8 hours ago, ed01106 said:

Right now they aren’t accepting cruise ships period.  And if the criteria to enter a port is nobody on board can have Covid in any form for a ship to dock then the ports may NEVER open at all.  The vaccine doesn’t prevent you from getting Covid, it prevents you from dying from Covid.  Most cruise ships will have people with Covid on them.  Just like it is extremely rare for a ship to sail without a single person having the common cold.  

 

The vaccine isn’t going to get rid of Covid.  It is just going to change it from a deadly pandemic to something akin to a bad common cold.  

 

In a post-Covid-vax world for most people  someone having Covid will be seen as similar to getting the cold or stomach bug.  You don’t want to catch it, but catching isn’t the end of the world either. And the anti-vaxers will be Darwin Award winners.

 

Well said! Concur 100%. All the folks thinking there will be 100% covid free cruises haven't been paying attention. It is something we will be living with for the foreseeable future. It can only be mitigated, not eliminated. Hopefully more folks will accept this reality and move beyond the wishful thinking.