Alaska 2021–CCL not giving up yet

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

That was a partial waiver, of one clause of the PVSA, where the ship must meet everything else, like US owned, US crewed, so Poof, there goes your argument.

 

I only needed one example, partial or otherwise. The sky did not fall.

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

There is no parsing of "large cruise ships" from "passenger vessels", as we are bound by the definition of a "passenger vessel".  And then, there is the pesky little "national security" requirement of the waiver.

 

US jobs ARE in the interest of National Security.

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Given that you have no submitted maritime experience, I find it hard to accept your description of the law as obsolete and archaic.  And, I do not "twist" posts, I point out the flaws in their thinking, and I don't take the thread off topic, I point out other aspects of the topic that influence how the desired result won't happen.

 

I am convinced that if the world ended tomorrow, with your last breath you would scream that PVSA must survive!

[BlerkOne]

February 12, 2021 10:46AM

Archaic Protectionism Is Set to Sink Alaska Cruises

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/archaic-protectionism-set-sink-alaska-cruises

 

 

[BlerkOne]

Exceptions have been made before - another window could be opened up

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRPT-107srpt47/html/CRPT-107srpt47.htm

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Exceptions have been made before - another window could be opened up

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRPT-107srpt47/html/CRPT-107srpt47.htm

Did you actually read this, or just the first paragraph.  It proposed to allow foreign built cruise ships to reflag to US flag for use in the PVSA trade.  If you want to do this, that is fine with me, I really don't have any problem with getting rid of the US built clause of either the Jones Act or PVSA.  But do you understand what is involved in reflagging a cruise ship to US flag?  Do you think it can be done for this year's Alaska season?  Do you think that cruise lines will do this en masse to take advantage of things like California coastal cruises?  Do you know the cost of this?  The one US flag large cruise ship has perennial understaffing due to the credentialing process needed to become a US crew member, how do you think the cruise lines can come up with thousands to man these ships that you think will reflag? 

 

It even talks about the safety issues with foreign flag ships, and why US flag ships are preferred in US waters.  As I've said, I don't agree with libertarian views like your Cato Institute, I see the PVSA as preserving the safety of US citizens on all passenger vessels in the US, since that is what the PVSA covers, not just cruise ships.  (though I guess that referencing "passenger" vessels is taking things "off topic"?)

Edited March 1, 2021 by chengkp75

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Did you actually read this, or just the first paragraph.  It proposed to allow foreign built cruise ships to reflag to US flag for use in the PVSA trade.

It is AN EXAMPLE and TEMPORARY. The Alaska cruising season can be SAVED. All that is needed is for lawmakers to not be narrow minded and to think outside the box. I was embarrassed to quote CATO but for once they made sense.

 

NCLH has staffing issues because of high turnover - issues non-US flagged ships don't have.

 

We both know US FLAGGED DUCK BOATS sink and kill people.

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It is AN EXAMPLE and TEMPORARY. The Alaska cruising season can be SAVED. All that is needed is for lawmakers to not be narrow minded and to think outside the box. I was embarrassed to quote CATO but for once they made sense.

 

NCLH has staffing issues because of high turnover - issues non-US flagged ships don't have.

 

We both know US FLAGGED DUCK BOATS sink and kill people.

It was a bad example, since it only removed one hurdle, it did not remove the coastwise qualification entirely, which is what you are proposing.

 

Do you work for NCL?  I did, in the Hawaiian fleet.  I know why NCL has staffing problems.  And, yes, it is a problem that non-US flag ships don't, and that is the cost of about $8000 and 3-6 months just to get a new employee credentialed and to the ship for his first day of work.

 

And, I know why duck boats are unsafe, do you?  Because the vehicle is both a vessel and a road vehicle, there are two competing agencies that make requirements on the duck boats.  USCG tries to make them as safe as possible while on the water, and DOT tries to make them as safe as possible on land, and in many cases a requirement that positively impacts safety on land, can negatively impact safety on the water.  You really need to do more research and less headline spouting.

 

There have been 37 deaths from duck boats, while just one ferry sinking in Senegal resulted in 1800+ deaths, and there have been nearly 10,000 deaths from ferry accidents just in the last 20 years.

[BlerkOne]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It was a bad example, since it only removed one hurdle, it did not remove the coastwise qualification entirely, which is what you are proposing.

 

Do you work for NCL?  I did, in the Hawaiian fleet.  I know why NCL has staffing problems.  And, yes, it is a problem that non-US flag ships don't, and that is the cost of about $8000 and 3-6 months just to get a new employee credentialed and to the ship for his first day of work.

 

And, I know why duck boats are unsafe, do you?  Because the vehicle is both a vessel and a road vehicle, there are two competing agencies that make requirements on the duck boats.  USCG tries to make them as safe as possible while on the water, and DOT tries to make them as safe as possible on land, and in many cases a requirement that positively impacts safety on land, can negatively impact safety on the water.  You really need to do more research and less headline spouting.

 

There have been 37 deaths from duck boats, while just one ferry sinking in Senegal resulted in 1800+ deaths, and there have been nearly 10,000 deaths from ferry accidents just in the last 20 years.

 

Condescending much?

 

NCLH had very high turnover. You aren't disputing that.

 

But according to you PSVA makes all boats safe. Now they are unsafe? Wearing a life jacket works wonders.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

FMC Commissioner Sola Calls for Exemption for 2021 Alaska Cruises

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/fmc-commissioner-sola-calls-for-exemption-for-2021-alaska-cruises

 

The Federal Maritime Commission (FMC) is the independent federal agency responsible for regulating the U.S. international ocean transportation system for the benefit of U.S. exporters, importers, and the U.S. consumer.

[ontheweb]

54 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

FMC Commissioner Sola Calls for Exemption for 2021 Alaska Cruises

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/fmc-commissioner-sola-calls-for-exemption-for-2021-alaska-cruises

 

The Federal Maritime Commission (FMC) is the independent federal agency responsible for regulating the U.S. international ocean transportation system for the benefit of U.S. exporters, importers, and the U.S. consumer.

Have you noticed that there are no cruises from Florida, NY, NJ, Texas, California, and Maryland as well as no cruises from Seattle to Alaska?

[chengkp75]

54 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

FMC Commissioner Sola Calls for Exemption for 2021 Alaska Cruises

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/fmc-commissioner-sola-calls-for-exemption-for-2021-alaska-cruises

 

The Federal Maritime Commission (FMC) is the independent federal agency responsible for regulating the U.S. international ocean transportation system for the benefit of U.S. exporters, importers, and the U.S. consumer.

And, as noted in the report, the views are those of Commissioner Sola, alone, and do not represent the views of the Maritime Commission.  And Mr. Sola is the newest member of the Commission, and arguably the one with the least maritime experience, unless you count his time as a luxury yacht broker.

 

As to your other post, I won't even dignify that with a response. 

[BlerkOne]

Haters gonna hate. And make excuses.

[BlerkOne]

Of course Sola is an unqualified political appointee by an equally unqualified prior administration but is a commissioner nonetheless.

[pistnbroke]

How likely is the Port of Seattle to endorse cruising in the near future ?

If they are not, discussing these other options are moot.

 

[BlerkOne]

13 minutes ago, pistnbroke said:

How likely is the Port of Seattle to endorse cruising in the near future ?

If they are not, discussing these other options are moot.

 

Well, nobody would cruise to Alaska now even if they could but there are still cruises you can book starting in May. If you wait until May to look for workarounds, you might as well cancel the season.

 

Alaska cruises don't have to leave from Seattle - they could leave from a few ports in California. There is a port in Oregon that might work. They could leave from Canada and then the whole archaic PSVA discussion would be moot.

[DAllenTCY]

Alaska cruises cannot leave from California or Oregon without a stop in Canada at this time.

 

Canada has closed it's ports.

 

The alternative stop in Ensenada, MX would require a longer than 7 night cruise if one were to visit Alaska.

 

Until all cruise crew have been vaccinated.....and that may take many months......don't expect Alaska this year.

 

David

[BlerkOne]

Here is a legal Alaska cruise - no Canada or PSVA exemption needed.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Well, nobody would cruise to Alaska now even if they could but there are still cruises you can book starting in May. If you wait until May to look for workarounds, you might as well cancel the season.

 

Alaska cruises don't have to leave from Seattle - they could leave from a few ports in California. There is a port in Oregon that might work. They could leave from Canada and then the whole archaic PSVA discussion would be moot.

No, the whole "archaic" PVSA still applies, since that is not a "coastwise" voyage.

4 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Here is a legal Alaska cruise - no Canada or PSVA exemption needed.

Talk about "twisting other's posts" and "taking the thread off topic", the examples and attempts at justification just keep getting more bizarre.

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Here is a legal Alaska cruise - no Canada or PSVA exemption needed.

How are you going to do that in 7 days or less to comply with the CDC?

[chengkp75]

21 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

How are you going to do that in 7 days or less to comply with the CDC?

Don't bring up facts, you will be accused of taking things off topic.

[Host Carolyn]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Don't bring up facts, you will be accused of taking things off topic.

😀😀😀😀😀  ::::choking on coffee::: 

[PelicanBill]

It remains that people are divided - here, and everywhere, about how the Cruise industry should be treated.

 

The cruise industry has very small economic impact to the US, and is not essential to commerce.  So it gets low priority from the government and its agencies, including the CDC, which clearly has higher priorities to which is must devote its resources.

 

You need only read the first section of the CDC's Framework for Conditional Sailing to understand their position that Cruise Ships are high risk.  Many disagree; Many agree. Nevertheless, that is the position, and that is why their actions toward the Cruise industry are slow and the process is onerous.  If you read the prior reports on the cruise industry you will see that the industry had a lot of irresponsible behavior (clearly documented) regarding crew and outbreak handling, and this led to the CDC's view on the risk as well.

 

We just have to wait this out.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Host Carolyn said:

😀😀😀😀😀  ::::choking on coffee::: 

Good, as the poster who brought up the fact in question, I can now rest easy and not worry about being banned.😊

[Cruiseboy06]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Don't bring up facts, you will be accused of taking things off topic.

because truth hurts...........   

[BlerkOne]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, the whole "archaic" PVSA still applies, since that is not a "coastwise" voyage.

Talk about "twisting other's posts" and "taking the thread off topic", the examples and attempts at justification just keep getting more bizarre.

I never said it didn't. Talk about twisting.

 

Even if the archaic PSVA isn't repealed, one can still cruise to Alaska. What has the obsolete law accomplished?

[BlerkOne]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Don't bring up facts, you will be accused of taking things off topic.

or someone will try the I have more experience than you diversion.