Healthy Sail Panel asked to re-evaluate

[Laszlo]

17 minutes ago, teacherman said:

When this pandemic began, we were told it would probably last for 12 to 18 months.  It has now been 12 months of "suggested" restrictions that most people tried to follow and some people refused to follow.  But if you stop and think how much things have improved in just the last 3 months, then who really knows how much things will change in the next 6 months?  I do not believe that cruise lines want to try and enforce a mask mandate on their ships.  They can't even enforce chair saving rules.  And even though many people are saying they will wear a mask if it means they can cruise again, I doubt they want to cruise again if it means it is a less enjoyable experience that it used to be.  And is maybe going to cost much more than it did just 12 months ago.

I can just imagine the cluster puck of them trying to make people where mask when on the ship. As you said they can't enforce chair saving, and we all know how many selfless people their are on a ship. I believe they will go with vaccines will be mandatory and you will need to produce some sort of evidence to show it was done.

[Trimone]

3 hours ago, Turtles06 said:

That’s great, but it’s because you have a National Health System.  

Sorry I didn’t realise this site was exclusive to the USA !

[DCGuy64]

10 hours ago, lizzius said:

No, 150 people could possibly get infected (which would be a small miracle on its own) and go on to develop mild illness (and likely not even on the ship). Hardly very sick. 

I declined to respond to that same poster due to the surfeit of assumptions it contained. I understand that some people are terrified of Covid-19, yet I can't help but notice how some people take the worst possible scenarios, then take them to be given, and then conclude that the cruise industry is doomed.

Again and again I am aghast at the number of people who are regular posters on this site, which is (last time I checked) for fans of the cruise industry, who are bound and determined to be pessimistic, no matter what. This after multiple vaccines are in use only 1 year after the pandemic was declared. Unbelievable that people can be so negative, facts be damned. SMH.

[RocketMan275]

22 hours ago, oteixeira said:

So I heard in a video I watched that the healthy sail panel was asked to re-evaluate all of their findings adding in vaccines to the equation.  Looks like NCL/RCL are already looking at what they could drop off if vaccines are mandatory.  What are your thoughts on this?  What would you love to see dropped from those initial findings?

If everyone is vaccinated, then none of the other rules should apply.  It' time for the CDC to stop telling us what we can or cannot do.  

 

There is one thing the Healthy Sale Panel should do.  Has anyone else noted that of all the panels objectives, not one mentioned having a good time or enjoying the cruise.  That should be the first and overriding objective.

[ColeThornton]

18 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

There is one thing the Healthy Sale Panel should do....

 

NCL could use a good healthy sale right now, prices are way high.  😉

[oteixeira]

41 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

NCL could use a good healthy sale right now, prices are way high.  😉

I just had to....

[Trimone]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I declined to respond to that same poster due to the surfeit of assumptions it contained. I understand that some people are terrified of Covid-19, yet I can't help but notice how some people take the worst possible scenarios, then take them to be given, and then conclude that the cruise industry is doomed.

Again and again I am aghast at the number of people who are regular posters on this site, which is (last time I checked) for fans of the cruise industry, who are bound and determined to be pessimistic, no matter what. This after multiple vaccines are in use only 1 year after the pandemic was declared. Unbelievable that people can be so negative, facts be damned. SMH.

In the U.K. the government has closed our business down three times now, we are in the health and beauty sector, myself I am a shielder due to none to limited immunity according to treatment timetable, however we can deal with 85 clients in 5 days then the next day I’m unable to leave the house.

We are now closed until April 12th at the earliest, we are in lockdown, we could easily open tomorrow, the infection in this area is so low, and we take safety and precautions seriously.....The country is going 😡 mad.

We are losing our livelihood, customer base and mostly our freedom!

[Turtles06]

4 hours ago, Trimone said:

Sorry I didn’t realise this site was exclusive to the USA !

 

I didn't say it was, and I think it's great that you have the NHS.  I was merely pointing out (for those who don't have a national health system) why you are able easily to have a single, central government site with your vaccination data.

[BBWC]

20 hours ago, Biffire said:

Assuming that vaccines are required, assuming there are 3000 people (guests and crew) aboard, assuming the vaccine is 95% effective, that would mean 150 people could get very sick. Doing the pre-cruise testing should make it better, but the tests are not perfect.I think some of the restrictions( 50% capacity, masks, social distancing, reduced social interactions) may remain if effect for awhile. No cruise line wants to have a bunch of people get sick and close down the industry once it finally opens again. I think we all need to decide which restrictions we will tolerate.Some will cruise regardless of  restrictions. Others may wish to wait and see if restrictions eventually go away. I just hope we get to make that choice soon.

I wish people would read up on statistics before posting. 95% effective does not mean that 5% will get Covid, it means vaccinated people get infected 95% less than non-vaccinated people. Based on US numbers, the chance of an unvaccinated person getting infected is about 8.9%, let’s say 10% for simplicity sake. That means a vaccinated person only has a 0.5% chance of getting infected, i.e. 1.5 people out of 3,000, not 150! That is infected at all, not hospitalized or dying. 

[macandlucy]

3 hours ago, BBWC said:

I wish people would read up on statistics before posting. 95% effective does not mean that 5% will get Covid, it means vaccinated people get infected 95% less than non-vaccinated people. Based on US numbers, the chance of an unvaccinated person getting infected is about 8.9%, let’s say 10% for simplicity sake. That means a vaccinated person only has a 0.5% chance of getting infected, i.e. 1.5 people out of 3,000, not 150! That is infected at all, not hospitalized or dying. 

 

Yes! Thanks for this.  Much lower numbers for hospitalization, and about zero for dying from covid once vaccinated.

 

It really is okay now for people to dial the fear level down to a more reasonable level, and not the maximum eleven setting we started at.  By all means, continue to be responsible and take precautions, but also take heart.

 

On vaccine efficacy:

 

There is even more good news about COVID-19 vaccine efficacy. As LiveScience reports, the Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson clinical trials all found that their vaccines were essentially 100 percent effective in preventing severe disease six to seven weeks after trial participants had received a first/single dose. As biotech journalist Anna Nowogrodzki notes, "Zero vaccinated people in any of the trials were hospitalized or died of COVID-19 after the vaccines had fully taken effect." Now that's the kind of vaccine efficacy that we can all cheer.

 

https://reason.com/2021/02/23/vaccines-are-100-effective-at-preventing-covid-19-hospitalizations-and-deaths/

 

 

[oteixeira]

9 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I declined to respond to that same poster due to the surfeit of assumptions it contained. I understand that some people are terrified of Covid-19, yet I can't help but notice how some people take the worst possible scenarios, then take them to be given, and then conclude that the cruise industry is doomed.

Again and again I am aghast at the number of people who are regular posters on this site, which is (last time I checked) for fans of the cruise industry, who are bound and determined to be pessimistic, no matter what. This after multiple vaccines are in use only 1 year after the pandemic was declared. Unbelievable that people can be so negative, facts be damned. SMH.

My friend, it is cruise "critic".  I remember before this so many people going ape stuff crazy over the smallest issues on a vacation.  A vacation!  The worst day on a ship is better then a day at work, some people seem to be looking for the grey cloud on even the most perfect day.

[farmersfight]

20 hours ago, teacherman said:

When this pandemic began, we were told it would probably last for 12 to 18 months.  It has now been 12 months of "suggested" restrictions that most people tried to follow and some people refused to follow.  But if you stop and think how much things have improved in just the last 3 months, then who really knows how much things will change in the next 6 months?  I do not believe that cruise lines want to try and enforce a mask mandate on their ships.  They can't even enforce chair saving rules.  And even though many people are saying they will wear a mask if it means they can cruise again, I doubt they want to cruise again if it means it is a less enjoyable experience that it used to be.  And is maybe going to cost much more than it did just 12 months ago.

 

We'll have to keep an eye on RCL's Odyssey of the Seas cruises out of Israel. Vaccinations required for passengers and crew. Will masks still be required onboard? Hope not...

[lizzius]

2 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

We'll have to keep an eye on RCL's Odyssey of the Seas cruises out of Israel. Vaccinations required for passengers and crew. Will masks still be required onboard? Hope not...

I could tolerate masks at shows, or embarkation (or other crowded indoor venues). Masks while you're sitting on the sun deck or at an outdoor table... Absolutely nonsensical.

[farmersfight]

3 hours ago, lizzius said:

I could tolerate masks at shows, or embarkation (or other crowded indoor venues). Masks while you're sitting on the sun deck or at an outdoor table... Absolutely nonsensical.

Agree. I think when everyone (crew & passengers) on board is required to be vaccinated, the mask mandate on board should be dropped.

 

I just saw a report that Crystal Cruises will be restarting in July, out of the Bahamas (sailing to various Bahamian ports). However, in addition to requiring all on board to be vaccinated, Crystal is still requiring masks, social distancing, etc. Crystal is "going overboard" with these continued covid protocols even after everyone on board has been vaccinated. (Pardon the ship pun, btw).

[oteixeira]

12 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

Agree. I think when everyone (crew & passengers) on board is required to be vaccinated, the mask mandate on board should be dropped.

 

I just saw a report that Crystal Cruises will be restarting in July, out of the Bahamas (sailing to various Bahamian ports). However, in addition to requiring all on board to be vaccinated, Crystal is still requiring masks, social distancing, etc. Crystal is "going overboard" with these continued covid protocols even after everyone on board has been vaccinated. (Pardon the ship pun, btw).

Not to mention testing before flying in, then again before you get on the ship, then again when you get off the ship.  Seems overkill to me for 100% vaccinated guests, but every line will do things their own way.  Wondering if this was what it took to get Bahamas to say Yes rather then Maybe.

[hallux]

12 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

Not to mention testing before flying in, then again before you get on the ship, then again when you get off the ship.  Seems overkill to me for 100% vaccinated guests, but every line will do things their own way.  Wondering if this was what it took to get Bahamas to say Yes rather then Maybe.

I have to wonder if that testing during early cruises is to prove it can be done safely and as confidence builds the testing will be relaxed...

[macandlucy]

7 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

Not to mention testing before flying in, then again before you get on the ship, then again when you get off the ship.  Seems overkill to me for 100% vaccinated guests, but every line will do things their own way.  Wondering if this was what it took to get Bahamas to say Yes rather then Maybe.

If that's how it's going to be it's far, far safer than a trip to the grocery store pretty much anywhere today. If you're going to your local Safeway today, you're at a much higher risk than you would be on a cruise ship under the outlined conditions. (And I assume for most of us, that risk we take going to the grocery store is manageable).

 

 

 

 

 

[farmersfight]

59 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

Not to mention testing before flying in, then again before you get on the ship, then again when you get off the ship.  Seems overkill to me for 100% vaccinated guests, but every line will do things their own way.  Wondering if this was what it took to get Bahamas to say Yes rather then Maybe.

 

Maybe not. I read where tourism is 70% of the Bahamian economy. The Bahamas were probably very receptive to allowing cruise ships to operate in their ports, waters. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bahamas even recruited Cyrstal to restart their cruises in their country. This may be all Cystal's doing in an over abundance of caution to ensure they are not the next headline and/or poster child for another covid break out on their cruise ship(s).

Edited March 13, 2021 by farmersfight

[oteixeira]

50 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

If that's how it's going to be it's far, far safer than a trip to the grocery store pretty much anywhere today. If you're going to your local Safeway today, you're at a much higher risk than you would be on a cruise ship under the outlined conditions. (And I assume for most of us, that risk we take going to the grocery store is manageable).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly I currently don't go in large grocery stores.  They offer car side loading, so I do that.  Once I am fully vaccinated I look forward to being comfortable in large stores.  I still argue that a lot of our spread came from folks shopping in stores, but we may never be able to prove any of it.

 

28 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 

Maybe not. I read where tourism is 70% of the Bahamian economy. The Bahamas were probably very receptive to allowing cruise ships to operate in their ports, waters. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bahamas even recruited Cyrstal to restart their cruises in their country. This may be all Cystal's doing in an over abundance of caution to ensure they are not the next headline and/or poster child for another covid break out on their cruise ship(s).

That is a fair argument.  I guess we will find out if other companies are forced to start looking at alternate places to home port due to lack of movement from the CDC.  I still think we will start in the US in mid to late summer, so it is hard to say how many big lines might go to the Bahamas, or Mexico to home port.  If they do, then we all know the CDC had no intentions of letting them sail this summer.

[dexddd]

Saw the thing about sailings out of Bahamas.  Hopefully Nassau was able to paint and clean the terminal in the year since shutdown.

[tumblew467]

On 3/11/2021 at 4:02 PM, chengkp75 said:

Looking at their website, I believe I see flaws in their covid vaccination plan, though of course it isn't final, and I didn't look too closely.  It says that you link the Clear Health Pass to your healthcare account to verify the vaccine record.  Which healthcare account?  What of those who got vaccinated at mass vaccination centers?  I know people who have gotten their vaccination, and the card provided lists the date and the batch of vaccine, but you write in your name and data in the blanks, so there is a wide possibility of forgery.  And, until there is a nationwide means of obtaining and tracking the vaccination, not state by state, like it was when I started going to sea, where you went to USPH centers to receive inoculations, there isn't going to be a real foolproof way to document this. 

 

Also, since Clear only applies to US citizens and Green Card holders, what about international passengers and the crew?

I know in NJ  that if you are even vaccinated in the mass sites it gets entered into the (NJIIS)   NJ immunization  information system.

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, oteixeira said:

 

Honestly I currently don't go in large grocery stores.  They offer car side loading, so I do that.  Once I am fully vaccinated I look forward to being comfortable in large stores.  I still argue that a lot of our spread came from folks shopping in stores, but we may never be able to prove any of it.

 

That is a fair argument.  I guess we will find out if other companies are forced to start looking at alternate places to home port due to lack of movement from the CDC.  I still think we will start in the US in mid to late summer, so it is hard to say how many big lines might go to the Bahamas, or Mexico to home port.  If they do, then we all know the CDC had no intentions of letting them sail this summer.

 

No argument, just my shared opinion with you and my (hopefully) many other CC friends. 😉. Speaking of big lines using alternate home ports outside the U.S. (like you said, due to lack of movement from the CDC), look no further than RCL and the home porting of Odyssey of the Seas in Israel. Also, everyone on board Odyssey OTS will be required to be vaccinated. As I mentioned before, it will be interesting to see whether RCL also requires masks, social distancing, etc, like Crystal Cruises is going to do.

 

I'm with you as to predicting a restart from U.S. ports. I've said it will be the 2nd half of this year (July - Dec 2021). Of course, my crystal ball may be all fogged up courtesy of the CDC.

[tumblew467]

I guess the concern for the continuation of masks even if you are vaccinated is that you can still get covid . Because the vaccine only protects you from the severe cases and hospitalizations. Since this is all so new  they are being cautious. 

 

[macandlucy]

Yes, I'll accept that it's out of an abundance of caution (and won't assume any other motive than that), but even so, it's kind of an extreme abundance of caution. I mean, if I get covid-19 after I'm vaccinated, and it's like getting a very mild cold, I'm not going to be too bothered about it. And if everyone else is vaccinated, others run a very, very small chance of getting it from me, and their case (in that case) would also be a mild case as well.  

 

I'm not seeing the need for the extreme caution, and wonder why only some health professional are seeing it.  I've seen several doctors, epidemiologists, infectious disease specialists say if you're vaccinated and everyone else is vaccinated, then it's fine to meet without masks.  That's also historically true about vaccines, why such a different approach this one?  That's what's puzzling me these days. 

 

 

 

 

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, tumblew467 said:

I guess the concern for the continuation of masks even if you are vaccinated is that you can still get covid . Because the vaccine only protects you from the severe cases and hospitalizations. Since this is all so new  they are being cautious. 

 

 

But we don't wear masks for the flu. And the flu can kill you also. I agree with @macandlucy, if everyone onboard is vaccinated, even if you do catch the WuFlu, the symptoms would be reduced to what you'd experience with a cold. And again I agree, if you're vaccinated and the other person is vaccinated, the chance of transmission is probably very minimal (they're still studying this) and even if transmitted to the other person, that person would also only experience mild effects, like a cold.

Edited March 13, 2021 by farmersfight