COVID Being brought under Control

[Hlitner]

9 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

My apologies for playing devil's advocate here (because I agree with virtually everything you say).  However, I don't think the US is actually tracking infections of vaccinated individuals.  Israel is however.

I don't speak Hebrew, so I have to rely on Twitter to translate:
https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1367129061458382852

 

 

They are seeing ~10% of Covid deaths have been fully vaccinated with both doses, so clearly infections are still occurring in the vaccinated.

Cruiser Bruce did a great job explaining but I will "pile on."  In Israel, just like in the USA, the initial vaccines were targeted at the highest risk populations.  The oldest and sickest in their nursing homes, living with their families, etc. were among the first to get vaccines.  We are talking about a very fragile group many of whom were at high risk of death without COVID.  It is not surprising that a percentage of these folks died within a few months of getting vaccines as they would have likely died anyway, from normal non-COVID causes.   One problem with death statistics is that they need to be understood in the context that death (and some morbidities) are not COVID related.   It is also a problem here in the USA where approximately half our reported "COVID related deaths" were elderly folks living in skilled nursing facilities (SNFs) or nursing homes.  That fact that these folks even live in the facilities means they are very frail and generally have multiple serious medical problems.  It is not unexpected that we would see a lot of deaths among this population...especially over a period of months.   I believe without COVID the median length of stay of folks in our nursing homes is less than 6 months.   That means that even without COVID we would lose around half our nursing home residents (nationwide) in less than 6 months.    

 

The question is whether those nursing home deaths are counted as COVID deaths and that seems to vary across the nation.   It is not the norm to autopsy nursing home patients who die as it is an expected death and the cause of death is simply recorded as a best guess.  Some of these folks may have died from COVID and others who were reported as dying from COVID likely died from other causes.  When I worked as a paramedic I would routinely get called to nursing homes for emergencies that resulted in death.  If I was on the scene it sometimes meant I had to telephone the local coroner who would often rely on what I said to determine if further action was necessary.  Nearly every time the coroner would trust my judgement and the death certificate would be written with the cause of death from various natural causes ((i.e. myocardial infarction, CVA (stroke), or a various cancer)) without any serious medical exam or autopsy.  You can be sure that the recorded cause of death was sometimes wrong but to paraphrase Governor Cuomo, "what difference does it make"  or dead is dead.

 

Hank

[jfunk138]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Cruiser Bruce did a great job explaining but I will "pile on."  In Israel, just like in the USA, the initial vaccines were targeted at the highest risk populations.  The oldest and sickest in their nursing homes, living with their families, etc. were among the first to get vaccines.  We are talking about a very fragile group many of whom were at high risk of death without COVID.  It is not surprising that a percentage of these folks died within a few months of getting vaccines as they would have likely died anyway, from normal non-COVID causes.   One problem with death statistics is that they need to be understood in the context that death (and some morbidities) are not COVID related.   It is also a problem here in the USA where approximately half our reported "COVID related deaths" were elderly folks living in skilled nursing facilities (SNFs) or nursing homes.  That fact that these folks even live in the facilities means they are very frail and generally have multiple serious medical problems.  It is not unexpected that we would see a lot of deaths among this population...especially over a period of months.   I believe without COVID the median length of stay of folks in our nursing homes is less than 6 months.   That means that even without COVID we would lose around half our nursing home residents (nationwide) in less than 6 months.    

 

The question is whether those nursing home deaths are counted as COVID deaths and that seems to vary across the nation.   It is not the norm to autopsy nursing home patients who die as it is an expected death and the cause of death is simply recorded as a best guess.  Some of these folks may have died from COVID and others who were reported as dying from COVID likely died from other causes.  When I worked as a paramedic I would routinely get called to nursing homes for emergencies that resulted in death.  If I was on the scene it sometimes meant I had to telephone the local coroner who would often rely on what I said to determine if further action was necessary.  Nearly every time the coroner would trust my judgement and the death certificate would be written with the cause of death from various natural causes ((i.e. myocardial infarction, CVA (stroke), or a various cancer)) without any serious medical exam or autopsy.  You can be sure that the recorded cause of death was sometimes wrong but to paraphrase Governor Cuomo, "what difference does it make"  or dead is dead.

 

Hank

Believe me, I definitely understand what you say, and agree with all of it.  To paraphrase:  "People who are very close to death already might test positive for Covid, that doesn't mean Covid killed them."

We have this idea that the vax will virtually eliminate "Covid deaths".  That will most certainly NOT be the case based on Israel data.  People who are fully vaxed will both: 1. test positive for Covid and 2. die.  Obviously this mental hurdle of "with Covid" vs "of Covid" will remain.

We agree on this issue and it's taken several posts to explain.  Imagine the mountain you'll have to climb to convince someone who doesn't agree with you?  Someone who's been fed fear by the media for the past 13 months?

[Hlitner]

14 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Believe me, I definitely understand what you say, and agree with all of it.  To paraphrase:  "People who are very close to death already might test positive for Covid, that doesn't mean Covid killed them."

We have this idea that the vax will virtually eliminate "Covid deaths".  That will most certainly NOT be the case based on Israel data.  People who are fully vaxed will both: 1. test positive for Covid and 2. die.  Obviously this mental hurdle of "with Covid" vs "of Covid" will remain.

We agree on this issue and it's taken several posts to explain.  Imagine the mountain you'll have to climb to convince someone who doesn't agree with you?  Someone who's been fed fear by the media for the past 13 months?

The media scare continues to this day and it is fueled by some government officials who have something to gain by fanning such fear.  Some of these officials likely think it is in the public good to keep folks scared and cautious and there are likely other officials who enjoy the increased power they have as the result of COVID.  

 

So my question (and it is a question) today is not going to get an honest answer from most experts.  The other day I heard one physician/expert (who seemingly does not have an agenda) say "4 weeks after your first shot you do not need to wear a mask or have any concern."   His position was that at that point (and this assumed folks got their 2nd shot as recommended) you are at no risk to either spread or be infected with COVID.   Just yesterday, Dr. Fauci finally admitted that he has no proof that vaccinated folks can spread COVID.  He went on to explain that it was likely that vaccinated folks do not have enough virus in their nasal/pharyngeal cavity to infect anyone, but he also made clear we do not have enough evidence to make this Statement.   Translated this apparently means there is no evidence that a fully vaccinated person can spread COVID, but we do not have enough proof to make that statement.  

 

There is another way to look at this subject.  Lacking any evidence that a fully vaccinated person can spread COVID there is no reason for those folks to wear a mask or take other precautions.  But to make such a statement does not fit into the agenda of many folks who want to keep the public scared and cautious.  And one ugly truth that nobody wants to say is that if half the population is at no risk of getting or spreading COVID and goes about their daily activities with no mask it is likely that many folks who are unvaccinated and still at great risk will also stop wearing a mask.  So telling everyone that they need to be masked is for the "greater good" even if it has no basis in science.  Bottom line is that our government officials and experts do not trust the public to do the right thing.

 

Hank 

[ilikeanswers]

While it is great that the USA seems to mostly have gotten on top of the vaccination program in terms of cruising you still have the problem of destination vaccination rates. From what I know the USA does not have a vaccination database that destinations can check that incoming passengers are fully vaccinated which means they would be fully reliant on the cruise line to do the checks and without uniform certification how to you expect cruise line employees to know of all the different types of certifications. The only way to be truly safe is to make sure that those who live in the cruise ship destinations are fully vaccinated. Starting cruising before that happens I think would be too risky🤔. 

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

While it is great that the USA seems to mostly have gotten on top of the vaccination program in terms of cruising you still have the problem of destination vaccination rates. From what I know the USA does not have a vaccination database that destinations can check that incoming passengers are fully vaccinated which means they would be fully reliant on the cruise line to do the checks and without uniform certification how to you expect cruise line employees to know of all the different types of certifications. The only way to be truly safe is to make sure that those who live in the cruise ship destinations are fully vaccinated. Starting cruising before that happens I think would be too risky🤔. 

So true and I think the horse has left the gate and it is too late for a viable International Vaccine document.  This should have been done by the WHO, who has been too busy playing world politics rather then fulfilling their defined purpose.  Just like WHO has an International Yellow Fever document they could have easily created the same...be it a hard copy or digital.  

 

DW and I have been talking this morning about our future travel plans and cruises never even entered the discussion.  Prior to COVID we would often cruise 100+ days a year and we still have 3 future cruises booked (Oct and Dec 2021 and April 2022).  We have no clue as to whether any of those cruises will happen but we are not going to sit around waiting or worrying.  What we are going to do is continue to travel (we have never stopped during the pandemic) by simply looking at the existing opportunities.  There are actually plenty of opportunities such as simply jumping on a flight to Turkey (we have previously enjoyed this country) where admission only requires a COVID test.  There are quite a few other countries where current travel rules only require a recent test and I suspect that the rules will soon ease in many other countries.   If Greece does soon reopen (as is the plan of their Tourist Minister) we would likely be off to a few of our favorite Greek Islands (which would be even more enjoyable with the lack of many cruise ship passengers).  

 

Until now we have had to be very cautious with our travel, and use a lot of common sense, to minimize our COVID risk.  Within a few weeks our vaccinations will be in full effect and then our COVID risk becomes minimal to zero (depending on what you choose to believe).  

 

I have looked at the current and near future cruise options and find the length of cruise too short, the restrictions too great, and the onboard restrictions too onerous.  Perhaps we could start a new thread entitled "when is a cruise not a cruise."  

 

We are independent travelers/cruisers and have spent the past 50+ travel years simply taking advantage of travel/cruise opportunities.   Much of the creed of the independent traveler is keeping one's flexibility and COVID makes this even a more important facet.   When decent cruises resume we will quickly look to get back aboard.  But while the cruise industry wallows around in the rocky COVID seas, it is expedient to look to other travel opportunities.

 

Hank

[2wheelin]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The media scare continues to this day and it is fueled by some government officials who have something to gain by fanning such fear.  Some of these officials likely think it is in the public good to keep folks scared and cautious and there are likely other officials who enjoy the increased power they have as the result of COVID.  

 

So my question (and it is a question) today is not going to get an honest answer from most experts.  The other day I heard one physician/expert (who seemingly does not have an agenda) say "4 weeks after your first shot you do not need to wear a mask or have any concern."   His position was that at that point (and this assumed folks got their 2nd shot as recommended) you are at no risk to either spread or be infected with COVID.   Just yesterday, Dr. Fauci finally admitted that he has no proof that vaccinated folks can spread COVID.  He went on to explain that it was likely that vaccinated folks do not have enough virus in their nasal/pharyngeal cavity to infect anyone, but he also made clear we do not have enough evidence to make this Statement.   Translated this apparently means there is no evidence that a fully vaccinated person can spread COVID, but we do not have enough proof to make that statement.  

 

There is another way to look at this subject.  Lacking any evidence that a fully vaccinated person can spread COVID there is no reason for those folks to wear a mask or take other precautions.  But to make such a statement does not fit into the agenda of many folks who want to keep the public scared and cautious.  And one ugly truth that nobody wants to say is that if half the population is at no risk of getting or spreading COVID and goes about their daily activities with no mask it is likely that many folks who are unvaccinated and still at great risk will also stop wearing a mask.  So telling everyone that they need to be masked is for the "greater good" even if it has no basis in science.  Bottom line is that our government officials and experts do not trust the public to do the right thing.

 

Hank 

So right. I have been saying this for months about vaccinated people not needing masks but being told to wear them just to make it easier for the mask police.

There is now gathering evidence that vaccinated people do not spread the virus. Unfortunately one poster here does not believe in “studies” being evidence of real life. When the institutions test every individual equally, the study IS real life.

[CruiserBruce]

4 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

While it is great that the USA seems to mostly have gotten on top of the vaccination program in terms of cruising you still have the problem of destination vaccination rates. From what I know the USA does not have a vaccination database that destinations can check that incoming passengers are fully vaccinated which means they would be fully reliant on the cruise line to do the checks and without uniform certification how to you expect cruise line employees to know of all the different types of certifications. The only way to be truly safe is to make sure that those who live in the cruise ship destinations are fully vaccinated. Starting cruising before that happens I think would be too risky🤔. 

Most states, if not all, have databases on vaccinations. 

[cruisingguy007]

25 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

So right. I have been saying this for months about vaccinated people not needing masks but being told to wear them just to make it easier for the mask police.

There is now gathering evidence that vaccinated people do not spread the virus. Unfortunately one poster here does not believe in “studies” being evidence of real life. When the institutions test every individual equally, the study IS real life.

 

While being vaccinated (fully) is probably enough to toss the masks, many see it as a selfish act by those who have been vaccinated first and also an opportunity for those who have been rebellious against masks the entire time, many who are also anti-vaxxers, to spread covid. I can see both positions, I don't like the masks myself, but I do see why many feel it selfish of the older/privileged population to now want to remove the masking because they are now protected, while others in different groups are not yet inoculated and still venerable.

 

The world basically was put on hold to save the elderly/compromised and anyone who didn't want to sacrifice at the alter of the old/infirmed was a totally selfish d-bag and ridiculed; but now that they "got theirs", they don't care anymore. It also gives those who still call it a hoax, anti vaccine crowds, and others who are not at risk and want to "let it rip", expose others who aren't yet protected.

 

I'm really hoping vaccine production ramps up because that will be the true equity and provide a prophylactic for those who want to be shielded from risk, the opportunity to do so. Until that time of equity, I can and do understand the intention and grievances of those still exposed so I will continue to follow the guidelines and be glad that "I got mine", while still respecting those in the struggle.  I hate wearing a mask more than most, can't stand it actually, to be perfectly honest. The vaccine (for all who want it) is our solution to this problem.          

Edited March 19, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[2wheelin]

6 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

1.  US has vaccinated one quarter the number in Israel.  There are a very small number of people who have been fully vaccinated.  At this point, it's going to be rare.

 

2.  Keep in mind that reporting something that does not align with "the science"™ gets one accused of eating at Olive Garden and staying at the Holiday Inn, so there is so hesitancy to even investigate something like this in the US.

 

3.  Studies aren't always a good indicator of what happens in the real world.  We've seen that again and again with this pandemic.  How many times has the "the science"™ evolved?

But Israel apparently reported similar results in the New England Journal. I haven’t looked it up yet but trust the Mayo Clinic interpretation of the paper. “The science” is supportive of the fact that it is rare for a vaccinated person to test positive. Not sure what you mean by #1 or #2. 

I reported on a definitely real world situation—-which was studied. That is what a study is. You collect date and analyze it. You can do a study by selecting individuals and following them for results, which is a predictive study. Or, as in this case, you test everyone, vaccinated or not, and compare results.

[2wheelin]

1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

While being vaccinated (fully) is probably enough to toss the masks, many see it as a selfish act by those who have been vaccinated first and an also opportunity for those who have been rebellious against masks the entire time, many who are also anti-vaxxers, to spread covid. I can see both positions, I don't like the masks myself but I do see why many feel it selfish of the older/privileged population to now want to remove the masking because they are now protected, while others in different groups are not yet inoculated and still venerable.

 

The world basically was put on hold to save the elderly/compromised and anyone who didn't want to sacrifice at the alter of the old/infirmed was a totally selfish d-bag and ridiculed; but now that they "got theirs", they don't care anymore. It also gives those who still call it a hoax, anti vaccine crowds, and others who are not at risk and want to "let it rip" expose others who aren't yet protected.

 

I'm really hoping vaccine production ramps up because that will be the true equity and provide a prophylactic for those who want to be shielded from risk the opportunity to do so. Until that time of equity, I can do understand the intention and grievances of those still exposed so I will continue to follow the guidelines and be glad that "I got mine" while still respecting those in the struggle and I hate wearing a mask more than most, can't stand it actually to be perfectly honest. The vaccine (for all who want it) is our solution to this problem.          

I can see the short-term need for masks for all alike but disagree with your statement about the elderly being selfish/privileged in wanting to demask. They were the ones told to stay home away from ALL other people. They were the ones put on hold. They were the ones suffering the mental effects of social isolation. Yes, others are too but the scales aren’t balanced. The elderly are the ones where a year in isolation is one of the last years of their lives while the younger mostly have many years to make up for this one year lost.

[jfunk138]

1 minute ago, 2wheelin said:

But Israel apparently reported similar results in the New England Journal. I haven’t looked it up yet but trust the Mayo Clinic interpretation of the paper. “The science” is supportive of the fact that it is rare for a vaccinated person to test positive. Not sure what you mean by #1 or #2. 

On #1... Israel has a vaccination rate of 111 doses per 100 people vs. the 33 per 100 in the US.  Looked at another way... since only 80% of the populations are over 16 years old and eligible to be vaccinated, 160 per 100 represents COMPLETE vaccination of the population with a 2 dose vaccine.  Israel is almost there, US isn't even close.

#2... What mainstream press have you seen for anything about the huge outbreak they've been having in Israel?  You can look at JHU and OurWorldInData and clearly see it... Israel's January/February outbreak was worse than the US despite their early and aggressive vaccination campaign.

 

1 minute ago, 2wheelin said:

I reported on a definitely real world situation—-which was studied. That is what a study is. You collect date and analyze it. You can do a study by selecting individuals and following them for results, which is a predictive study. Or, as in this case, you test everyone, vaccinated or not, and compare results.

But you aren't explaining why 10% of the "Covid-19" deaths reported in Israel occurred in people who had completed their 2 dose regimen and were "fully vaccinated"?  While the study didn't "find" them, the data reported in the Hebrew Ynet news did.

 

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, 2wheelin said:

I can see the short-term need for masks for all alike but disagree with your statement about the elderly being selfish/privileged in wanting to demask. They were the ones told to stay home away from ALL other people. They were the ones put on hold. They were the ones suffering the mental effects of social isolation. Yes, others are too but the scales aren’t balanced. The elderly are the ones where a year in isolation is one of the last years of their lives while the younger mostly have many years to make up for this one year lost.

 

I'm not sure what country you're in but here in America the lock downs, restrictions, closures, etc were for everyone, not just the elderly population. So yes, the world did stop for them. Everyone suffered/sacrificed for the sake of the old/venerable and everyone suffered. People lost jobs, business, industries collapsed, faced isolation, kids were pulled from schools etc. It's a completely crap argument that only the old suffered or "suffered more". Complete nonsense.   

[jfunk138]

1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'm not sure what country you're in but here in America the lock downs, restrictions, closures, etc were for everyone, not just the elderly population. So yes, the world did stop for them. Everyone suffered/sacrificed for the sake of the old/venerable and everyone suffered. People lost jobs, business, industries collapsed, faced isolation, kids were pulled from schools etc. It's a completely crap argument that only the old suffered or "suffered more". Complete nonsense.   

My children reached their 1-year anniversary of remote school this week.  Despite being 3/4 of the way through the school year, they are not quite halfway through their grade level curriculum.  

They will be behind for their rest of their lives.  Many others aren't even this lucky.  

[Hlitner]

24 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Most states, if not all, have databases on vaccinations. 

Some, not all, States do maintain a data base.  Whether all the vaccines get entered into the data bases is questionable (I used to work for PA Medical Assistance and have some understanding of the limitations of data bases).  A data base must depend on thousands of different entities to properly update the data and this is truly hit/miss.   But those State data bases are subject to both the Federal HIPAA privacy regulations and some similar (and even tougher) State regulations which vary State to State.  So even if there is a vaccine data base (such as in California) that does not mean that other agencies (Federal or State) get access to that information.   

 

That is why I have said that the horse is out of the gate and it is now too late to implement a decent national data base (which also would be subject to HIPAA privacy regulations. While a national vaccine data base, accessible to certain government agencies such as CBP, might be a great idea I believe it would require Congressional action (a modification to HIPAA).  Even if Congress wanted to move on such a measure it would likely take at least 20 years (they are too busy bashing each other to deal with meaningful issues).  

 

 So consider that I got vaccinated at a Rite Aid.  At the time I could provide my personal physician information and then, in theory, Rite Aid would notify my personal physician so he could update his records.  Rite Aid would also have a record in their data base but since we do not have a statewide data base, that info just stays with Rite Aid with some reporting to the CDC.  I am not aware that the CDC is maintaining a data base with specific personal identifiers, but even if they had this info it would be subject to HIPAA which means they would likely resist releasing that info.  Within the US Healthcare industry (I am talking at all levels) we are all obsessive on protecting individual patient info.  

 

The bottom line is that it is unlikely we will soon have a secure way of proving vaccination.  The current test results for COVID are also not very secure although that could certainly be fixed in short order although there has been no indication that it will happen here in the USA.  I imagine that Congress will get around to doing something (possibly by 2030) but that will not be helpful for the next few years.

 

Hank

 

 

 

 

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

On #1... Israel has a vaccination rate of 111 doses per 100 people vs. the 33 per 100 in the US.  Looked at another way... since only 80% of the populations are over 16 years old and eligible to be vaccinated, 160 per 100 represents COMPLETE vaccination of the population with a 2 dose vaccine.  Israel is almost there, US isn't even close.

#2... What mainstream press have you seen for anything about the huge outbreak they've been having in Israel?  You can look at JHU and OurWorldInData and clearly see it... Israel's January/February outbreak was worse than the US despite their early and aggressive vaccination campaign.

 

But you aren't explaining why 10% of the "Covid-19" deaths reported in Israel occurred in people who had completed their 2 dose regimen and were "fully vaccinated"?  While the study didn't "find" them, the data reported in the Hebrew Ynet news did.

 

Reported today that 60% of Israeli population has received at least 1 shot. Hardly complete. Yes, higher than the US. No one disputed that.

Quotes:

Meanwhile, the latest real-world evidence collected in Israel suggests the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine—the country’s most commonly administered shot—is preventing nearly 99% of deaths from COVID-19, while also curbing viral spread.

Methodology note: The number of COVID-19 deaths in Israel peaked on Jan. 25 at 0.74 fatalities per 100,000 residents, compared to a global peak of 0.18 one day later, according to data from the Johns Hopkins Center for Systems Science and Engineering. While Israel’s peak value was much higher than the global average, its death rate has declined at a much steeper rate since the peak, though it’s too soon to know to what degree this can be attributed to vaccinations. 

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'm not sure what country you're in but here in America the lock downs, restrictions, closures, etc were for everyone, not just the elderly population. So yes, the world did stop for them. Everyone suffered/sacrificed for the sake of the old/venerable and everyone suffered. People lost jobs, business, industries collapsed, faced isolation, kids were pulled from schools etc. It's a completely crap argument that only the old suffered or "suffered more". Complete nonsense.   

And you completely twisted what I said. Everyone sacrificed but to say the hardest hit segment was “privileged” to have early access to vaccine is ridiculous. And I am a health care worker.

I don’t know any elderly vaccinated people who are yet even socializing, let alone attempting to go maskless, although guidelines now approve. They are as a group extremely careful—-to protect their young family members.

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, 2wheelin said:

And you completely twisted what I said. Everyone sacrificed but to say the hardest hit segment was “privileged” to have early access to vaccine is ridiculous. And I am a health care worker.

I don’t know any elderly vaccinated people who are yet even socializing, let alone attempting to go maskless, although guidelines now approve. They are as a group extremely careful—-to protect their young family members.

 

Now you're being obtuse and trying to deflect from your ridiculous assertion. Good day.  

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Most states, if not all, have databases on vaccinations. 

 

But can border authorities in the Bahamas use these databases to check that incoming passengers are vaccinated or cruise lines check that people booking are vaccinated before letting them on board? Cruising at the end of the day is a two way street, you have people coming in and the destinations that receive them. The destinations would like to avoid covid outbreaks too so it wouldn't surprise me if they might like to wait till their people are vaccinated before they let thousands rush in. 

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But can border authorities in the Bahamas use these databases to check that incoming passengers are vaccinated or cruise lines check that people booking are vaccinated before letting them on board? Cruising at the end of the day is a two way street, you have people coming in and the destinations that receive them. The destinations would like to avoid covid outbreaks too so it wouldn't surprise me if they might like to wait till their people are vaccinated before they let thousands rush in. 

I am not sure you understand, but much of the world is not locked down like your country.  The Bahamas and many of the Caribbean islands are open to tourism as long as they meet their requirements which are often just a negative COVID test within a few days of arrival.  While I thought that many places would make vaccinations a key part of entry, at this point it seems that most countries open to tourism are still relying on testing...although some are starting to talk about vaccinations or even a combination of vaccination and testing.  But as an American there are actually a lot of places we can travel and there are enough International flights to meet most needs.  

 

In June, RCI will start cruises from Nassau that will primarily be for folks from the USA...although folks from other countries can cruise if they meet the Bahamian entry rules (based on a recent COVID test).  Celebrity is starting cruises in June from the island of St Maarten with similar rules based on testing although the cruise line will require passengers over 18 to be vaccinated.   But none of the destination islands on those cruises currently require vaccinations.  

 

To answer your specific question, the authorities in the Bahamas and other countries do not have access to most US data bases.  Since Celebrity is requiring passengers to be vaccinated I assume they will settle for the vaccine cards given to most Americans at the time they get their vaccinations.  By June, when these cruises commence, most Americans who want to be vaccinated will have had the opportunity.

 

Hank

[clo]

On 3/18/2021 at 7:47 PM, ldubs said:

 

Thanks Jfunk138.  It is the data in your first link that has me concerned.  Yes, it shows we have recovered from  the winter spike.  But we are still worse than we were from May through Oct of last year.  It will only be an improvement if the trend continues.  We don't appear to be there yet.     

 

You make a very good point about the vaccinations not yet kicking in.   

 

I actually hope I'm somehow looking at this incorrectly.     

 

Take care.  

Just saw an interview with Dr. Fauci who showed that the numbers have plateaued which isn't good. They should have continued to go down. And I believe he said that 17 states have increased their numbers. 

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I am not sure you understand, but much of the world is not locked down like your country.  The Bahamas and many of the Caribbean islands are open to tourism as long as they meet their requirements which are often just a negative COVID test within a few days of arrival.  While I thought that many places would make vaccinations a key part of entry, at this point it seems that most countries open to tourism are still relying on testing...although some are starting to talk about vaccinations or even a combination of vaccination and testing.  But as an American there are actually a lot of places we can travel and there are enough International flights to meet most needs.  

 

In June, RCI will start cruises from Nassau that will primarily be for folks from the USA...although folks from other countries can cruise if they meet the Bahamian entry rules (based on a recent COVID test).  Celebrity is starting cruises in June from the island of St Maarten with similar rules based on testing although the cruise line will require passengers over 18 to be vaccinated.   But none of the destination islands on those cruises currently require vaccinations.  

 

To answer your specific question, the authorities in the Bahamas and other countries do not have access to most US data bases.  Since Celebrity is requiring passengers to be vaccinated I assume they will settle for the vaccine cards given to most Americans at the time they get their vaccinations.  By June, when these cruises commence, most Americans who want to be vaccinated will have had the opportunity.

 

Hank

 

We will see if those cruises actually sail😆. There have been too many announced sailings that have been backtracked for me to believe it will happen till a ship is leaving port😜.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Just saw an interview with Dr. Fauci who showed that the numbers have plateaued which isn't good. They should have continued to go down. And I believe he said that 17 states have increased their numbers. 

 

Yes he did.  And sadly similar comments about a plateau have been reported for some time now.  I don't have anything against Fauci, but he needs to do a better job communicating the status and the strategy.   I would like him to focus more on the offensive game.   Maybe he is the victim of sound bites, IDK.  Maybe another CDC spokesperson is needed.   I would like to see more CDC debriefs.    And, keep the politicians away from the podium.  

[clo]

23 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 Maybe another CDC spokesperson is needed.  

Well, he's not with the CDC first of all. But almost daily we see the new director who continues to urge caution.

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, clo said:

Well, he's not with the CDC first of all. But almost daily we see the new director who continues to urge caution.

 

Yikes. I guess it is because Fauci always references CDC.  Anyway,  thanks for he correction, but replace CDC with NIH (I hope that is right) and my point remains the same.   Unless I'm mistaken and Fauci is not our top Public Health spokesman.   I understand caution is urged and don't disagree.  But it is the same message we have been hearing for months, literally.   Might be losing effectiveness.   

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Yikes. I guess it is because Fauci always references CDC.  Anyway,  thanks for he correction, but replace CDC with NIH (I hope that is right) and my point remains the same.   Unless I'm mistaken and Fauci is not our top Public Health spokesman.   I understand caution is urged and don't disagree.  But it is the same message we have been hearing for months, literally.   Might be losing effectiveness.   

Yes, NIH is correct.