Do you think Carnival will move its homeport?

[Cafedumonde]

I think they will move ships to leave from the Bahamas.  Not all but some, just to show the stupidity of it all.  They have a big facility in Freeport and already have some infrastructure there and could easily get airliners to offer relatively inexpensive charter flights.   I’m in.  I think Carnival management is doing an excellent job.  I love that they are not requiring vaccines because most of the population has already been exposed to the thing at this point and already has immunity.  By all means get the vaccine, but I suspect regular old herd immunity is what’s really at work.  You see this in states without mask mandates and restrictions.  Low numbers.  

[kdr69]

7 hours ago, Moviela said:

If you were to take the known cases of Covid at 32 million and multiply by 4 for the unknown cases, we get 128 million with natural immunity. If the US Adult population is 330 million (no one really knows because of the open border policy) and 60% have immunity from vaccination, that is 198 million folks.

Add the natural immunity to the vaccinated immunity to get 328 million. That is 98.7% of the adult population, and sounds like herd immunity to me. Would Canada have similar stats? 

 

The CDC is slow walking any changes because it's the government, and they are here to help. (note sarcasm)

 

98.7%? well right then COVID is over whats the holdup?😁

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Cafedumonde said:

 I love that they are not requiring vaccines because most of the population has already been exposed to the thing at this point and already has immunity

 

That explains the rising numbers of cases in the US.

1 hour ago, Cafedumonde said:

.  By all means get the vaccine, but I suspect regular old herd immunity is what’s really at work.  You see this in states without mask mandates and restrictions.  Low numbers.  

Those low numbers are going up. Again.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Didnt the UK say they reached herd immunity?  They did one first shot and concentrated on getting one shot into everyone's arms first.

 

Faucci shot down this approach for the usa. He was a no. So we are behind in herd immunity but hopefully get there.

 

I'd think israel reached herd immunity too, but didnt read it in the news. 

One definition of herd immunity is each case of covid spreads to less than one person. Then eventually you get to zero IFFFFFFFFFFFFFF people aren't stupid. It is easy to lose herd immunity if people party like it is 2019 and the virus has a chance to take off again. You still have to be careful.

 

Fauci (spelled correctly) shot down what? About 50% of USA and UK have at least one jab. The US is ahead in fully vaccinated people. The US is nowhere close to herd immunity. One reason is too many states opening too much, too soon. Too many people ignoring simple instructions. Too many refusing the vaccine. UK and Israel don't have as much of a problem.

[KennyFla]

15 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

MSC is planning on some launches from Florida in July. The odds are slim and none. But they will happily take your money.

 

It is all about safety. Americans currently are not welcome to cruise in Europe where the CDC has no jurisdiction.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/people-opinions/msc-cruises-ready-welcome-non-schengen-passengers-med-sailings-onorato-says

 

[chengkp75]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:18 PM, Moviela said:

The chance of Carnival porting anywhere near the USA is a non-starter. There is no supply chain in the Caribbean to service the large passenger ships. Available provisions and transportation is too thin support much more than a top off of the marshalling area of the ships. Mardi Gras would have no place to get LNG to fuel it. 

There is a supply chain in the Caribbean, it just means that everything will cost more as it needs to be shipped to the new homeport from a supplier in the US (if they wish to continue using US vendors).  As for the LNG ships, they can operate quite well on non-LNG fuel (diesel or residual), as the engines can burn all of it.  Additionally, the LNG is being shipped by tanker from Savannah, GA, to the Florida ports for use by the cruise ships, so it could be shipped to the new home ports as well.

On 4/18/2021 at 9:41 PM, Moviela said:

I am not sure how any cruise line can submit a coherent plan? The CDC has not issued the full set of technical instructions for the companies to formulate a plan.

There is never any need for a regulated industry to wait for "technical instructions" before coming up with the required action plan to meet regulations.  "Technical instructions" are used when the industry resists the regulations, and requires prompts from the regulators.  The cruise lines could have come up with covid response plans a year ago, when the requirements were first published.  Those same requirements haven't changed in a year, from NSO to CSO, and the cruise lines knew this from the original wording of the NSO amendment in April 2020.  

[chengkp75]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:32 PM, Moviela said:

 

Worry is just interest on problems you do not have yet. I don't think the double-secret probation will be a factor in resuming operations. Carnival has hired a compliance officer that reports to the CEO and has a budget and portfolio for mandated requirements of the Court. Hopefully the training will change the culture among the crews that adherence to environmental laws is paramount in their daily routine. Some components of the Court's order cannot be accomplished because the pandemic makes it impossible to obtain required spares in the quantity specified, and the inability of outside maintenance engineers and inspectors to board the vessels. Law and equity does not punish people for things beyond their control. 

This is just not correct.  While Carnival has re-organized their compliance department, under orders from the court, since their first attempt led to a compliance officer with all the responsibility but none of the authority to ensure compliance, it is likely too soon to tell.  To say that the culture "among the crews" needs to change is a complete falsification of the facts as found by the auditors.  All during the vessel audits, the auditors commented on how the crew knew about, and felt strongly about environmental compliance, and tried to do their best, it was at the corporate level where indifference to environmental compliance was endemic.  Crew don't wake up one morning and say "I'm going to risk my job and possible fines and jail to save the company money, money that won't be reflected in my paycheck".  No, corporate says "oh, you have oily wastes to get rid of?  Make it disappear, I don't want to hear about it, or your replacement will be at the next port".  That is the reality of corporate shipping, and I speak from personal and professional experience.

 

While there are some limitations on service engineers and inspectors for travel, for the most part, the maritime industry has been operating at near normal levels all through the pandemic, we get spare parts, I just had a service engineer on my ship for about 10 days, from Norway.  With a letter from their employer, they are allowed to travel nearly anywhere as essential personnel, but must meet testing requirements of the countries traveled to/from, of course.

 

Carnival's main justification for not meeting the terms of the probation fully was "time" because they couldn't do the work "in service".  Well, they've had a year "out of service", so that flimsy excuse goes away.

 

And, as a mariner who makes his living on the sea, as well as a human who lives on this planet, I take your trivialization of the "double secret" probation that Carnival is under as an insult.  What Carnival did was reprehensible, and they are being held to no more restrictive or onerous conditions than any other shipping company in the world.  In fact, they were treated with unusual favor when the second fine was levied, for violation of their agreed to probation, considering that in most of these cases, a second fine is 10 times the original, not half like Carnival's. 

[florida eagle]

4 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

One definition of herd immunity is each case of covid spreads to less than one person. Then eventually you get to zero IFFFFFFFFFFFFFF people aren't stupid. It is easy to lose herd immunity if people party like it is 2019 and the virus has a chance to take off again. You still have to be careful.

 

Fauci (spelled correctly) shot down what? About 50% of USA and UK have at least one jab. The US is ahead in fully vaccinated people. The US is nowhere close to herd immunity. One reason is too many states opening too much, too soon. Too many people ignoring simple instructions. Too many refusing the vaccine. UK and Israel don't have as much of a problem.

If people are constantly demeaned, you should not be frustrated when they rebel.

[ProgRockCruiser]

2 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/people-opinions/msc-cruises-ready-welcome-non-schengen-passengers-med-sailings-onorato-says

 

MSC can welcome "Americans" all they want.  Getting into Europe is currently problematic.  Most European countries deny entry from the US for non-citizens, except for exceptional circumstances - being a tourist and going on a cruise does not fall into that category.

[asalligo]

12 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

MSC can welcome "Americans" all they want.  Getting into Europe is currently problematic.  Most European countries deny entry from the US for non-citizens, except for exceptional circumstances - being a tourist and going on a cruise does not fall into that category.

My daughter just flew to Spain and back two weeks ago, it was not an issue. She did get Covid tests coming and going, but no one even asked to see them. 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by asalligo

[ProgRockCruiser]

11 minutes ago, asalligo said:

My daughter just flew to Spain and back two weeks ago, it was not an issue. She did get Covid tests coming and going, but no one even asked to see them. 

 

According to the State Dept, she should have needed a specific reason to enter.  So under what criteria did she travel?:

 

Entry and Exit Requirements:  SPAIN

Are U.S. citizens permitted to enter? No

• Due to COVID-19 Spanish travel restrictions, U.S. citizens cannot enter Spain unless they meet very specific requirements or have already obtained special permission from the Government of Spain.  Please check the Spanish regulations carefully before attempting to travel.  If you travel to Spain and are not admitted, you will be placed in immigration detention for up to several days, until a flight on the same airline becomes available to take you back to your point of origin.

[asalligo]

7 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

According to the State Dept, she should have needed a specific reason to enter.  So under what criteria did she travel?:

 

Entry and Exit Requirements:  SPAIN

Are U.S. citizens permitted to enter? No

• Due to COVID-19 Spanish travel restrictions, U.S. citizens cannot enter Spain unless they meet very specific requirements or have already obtained special permission from the Government of Spain.  Please check the Spanish regulations carefully before attempting to travel.  If you travel to Spain and are not admitted, you will be placed in immigration detention for up to several days, until a flight on the same airline becomes available to take you back to your point of origin.

I will ask her, I just know she flew there and returned. 

[asalligo]

14 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

According to the State Dept, she should have needed a specific reason to enter.  So under what criteria did she travel?:

 

Entry and Exit Requirements:  SPAIN

Are U.S. citizens permitted to enter? No

• Due to COVID-19 Spanish travel restrictions, U.S. citizens cannot enter Spain unless they meet very specific requirements or have already obtained special permission from the Government of Spain.  Please check the Spanish regulations carefully before attempting to travel.  If you travel to Spain and are not admitted, you will be placed in immigration detention for up to several days, until a flight on the same airline becomes available to take you back to your point of origin.

She has a student visa, says it was not hard to get.  

[kicia]

I think that Carnival will move at least a few of their ships to the Caribbean.  Since they will not  be sailing from the US, they won't need to do test cruises so that will save money.  Since only a few ships will be sailing I think they will be filled to whatever capacity is agreed upon.  They won't be trying to fill all their ships and there are plenty of  people that will fly to Nassau or wherever.  Not needing vaccines is a big plus for us but it also might limit those that won't sail because of that.  I assume that those cruises would be filled to the limited capacity as soon as bookings open. I hope it happens soon because we are so ready to cruise. The only block for us would be requiring vaccines.

[BlerkOne]

Probably not Bermuda (and no, not from the CDC)

https://www.gov.bm/new-outbreak-restrictions

[seaman11]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:58 AM, kicia said:

I think that Carnival will move at least a few of their ships to the Caribbean.  Since they will not  be sailing from the US, they won't need to do test cruises so that will save money.  Since only a few ships will be sailing I think they will be filled to whatever capacity is agreed upon.  They won't be trying to fill all their ships and there are plenty of  people that will fly to Nassau or wherever.  Not needing vaccines is a big plus for us but it also might limit those that won't sail because of that.  I assume that those cruises would be filled to the limited capacity as soon as bookings open. I hope it happens soon because we are so ready to cruise. The only block for us would be requiring vaccines.

I dont know why ppl think , they cant sell the cabins because ppl wont want to fly, watch how fast it fills up , if they announce it. 

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

I dont know why ppl think , they cant sell the cabins because ppl wont want to fly, watch how fast it fills up , if they announce it. 

And that will be simply those who have credits with the line taking them, and figuring the airfare is better than losing the entire future credit.  Whether the demand for cruises from fly away ports remains after the canceled cruises are taken care of is another thing.  The cruise lines have done quite a lot of market research regarding this, or why do you think they use the US homeports, and put up with US oversight.

[BlerkOne]

On 4/20/2021 at 6:19 AM, florida eagle said:

If people are constantly demeaned, you should not be frustrated when they rebel.

Fauci has thick skin, he can take it.

[seaman11]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And that will be simply those who have credits with the line taking them, and figuring the airfare is better than losing the entire future credit.  Whether the demand for cruises from fly away ports remains after the canceled cruises are taken care of is another thing.  The cruise lines have done quite a lot of market research regarding this, or why do you think they use the US homeports, and put up with US oversight.

I agree, but it doesnt need to be forever, just this year or so. ,

[phoneman69]

What do i do with all my expiring American Airlines credits ? i will fly to a new port if Carnival relocates a ship their. Like many others i have over a $1,000.00 in air fare credits that the airlines will not extend beyond Dec 2021. Hoping my Sept out of Miami Sails.

[chengkp75]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:55 PM, seaman11 said:

I agree, but it doesnt need to be forever, just this year or so. ,

So, you think that covid mitigation measures will go away in a year or so?  I expect that lots of the CSO requirements, in particular the agreements and contracts with ports and health care service providers to be incorporated into the VSP as permanent requirements, since the VSP has never really addressed an aerosol virus before, and there are many out there, and more coming.

[mondello]

2 hours ago, phoneman69 said:

What do i do with all my expiring American Airlines credits ? i will fly to a new port if Carnival relocates a ship their. Like many others i have over a $1,000.00 in air fare credits that the airlines will not extend beyond Dec 2021. Hoping my Sept out of Miami Sails.

That would be enough airfare to fly to an AI resort if your cruise is cancelled. Hoping my Oct. cruise sails, too.

[firefly333]

3 hours ago, phoneman69 said:

What do i do with all my expiring American Airlines credits ? i will fly to a new port if Carnival relocates a ship their. Like many others i have over a $1,000.00 in air fare credits that the airlines will not extend beyond Dec 2021. Hoping my Sept out of Miami Sails.

1000 would more than cover flights to some of the ports other lines are leaving from, for 2 people.

 

I'm booked sept myself but dont believe it will sail, make a plan B. My hotel is booked in Galveston so I'm still going with or without a cruise. Cruiselines say they need at least 3 months lead time, so you will know within 2 months if sept is a go or not. Plan B time for sept unless cdc caves. (Seems unlikely). Frustrating it's become a political football. 

[phoneman69]

9 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

1000 would more than cover flights to some of the ports other lines are leaving from, for 2 people.

 

I'm booked sept myself but dont believe it will sail, make a plan B. My hotel is booked in Galveston so I'm still going with or without a cruise. Cruiselines say they need at least 3 months lead time, so you will know within 2 months if sept is a go or not. Plan B time for sept unless cdc caves. (Seems unlikely). Frustrating it's become a political football. 

Yes a plan B is in the makings. I really dont want to loose all of my air lines credits. 2 cruises with air fares cancelled. We are going to fly somewhere in Sept.

[ledges1]

Using my airline credit to fly to Key West. I have a second credit that will probably expire before the cruise industry sails again. It will not go to waste. There is more to life than a cruise.