No More Masks

[coffeebean]

7 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

yes - that's my understanding. However, I am seeing new CDC stats about breakthrough illnesses and death. I think only a few hundred of fully vaxxed have contracted Covid and passed away thus far. Unsure about the number of hospitalizations. Regardless - small, small number given the millions that have been vaxxed already. 

Has it been determined cause of death from these people that have passed away after full vaccination? In other words, were their deaths directly caused from Covid?

[CaptainWoody]

49 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Has it been determined cause of death from these people that have passed away after full vaccination? In other words, were their deaths directly caused from Covid?

Highly unlikely.  Covid has always been simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Treasure Hunter]

I believe strongly that everyone needs to be vaccinated so that people like my friend who had a kidney transplant can live a life without fear. He had a genetic disease.  He got the vaccine but because of his anti rejection drugs did not form antibodies. We need to get to herd immunity. Then we won't have to wear masks or social distance. 

[RocketMan275]

14 hours ago, ChutChut said:

yes - that's my understanding. However, I am seeing new CDC stats about breakthrough illnesses and death. I think only a few hundred of fully vaxxed have contracted Covid and passed away thus far. Unsure about the number of hospitalizations. Regardless - small, small number given the millions that have been vaxxed already. 

Actually, it's rather doubtful that any fully vaxxed have passed away from COVID.  Here's the latest:

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/553773-fauci-vaccinated-people-become-dead-ends-for-the-coronavirus

 

"Appearing on CBS's "Face the Nation," Fauci explained to host John Dickerson that fully vaccinated people can go without masks even if they have an asymptomatic case of COVID-19 because the level of virus is much lower in their nasopharynx, the top part of their throat that lies behind the nose, than it is in someone who is unvaccinated."

 

"So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they're going to transmit it," Fauci said."

 

It's rather difficult to imagine 'asymptomatic' persons dying from COVID.

This statement has big implications for cruising with only the vaccinated since even Fauci is saying that the vaccinated are 'dead ends' for the COVID, they don't get sick and they don't transmit the virus.  That means the transmission of COVID, let alone an outbreak, on a cruise ship is a "very, very, low likelihood" event.

 

[JamieLogical]

59 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Actually, it's rather doubtful that any fully vaxxed have passed away from COVID.  Here's the latest:

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/553773-fauci-vaccinated-people-become-dead-ends-for-the-coronavirus

 

"Appearing on CBS's "Face the Nation," Fauci explained to host John Dickerson that fully vaccinated people can go without masks even if they have an asymptomatic case of COVID-19 because the level of virus is much lower in their nasopharynx, the top part of their throat that lies behind the nose, than it is in someone who is unvaccinated."

 

"So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they're going to transmit it," Fauci said."

 

It's rather difficult to imagine 'asymptomatic' persons dying from COVID.

This statement has big implications for cruising with only the vaccinated since even Fauci is saying that the vaccinated are 'dead ends' for the COVID, they don't get sick and they don't transmit the virus.  That means the transmission of COVID, let alone an outbreak, on a cruise ship is a "very, very, low likelihood" event.

 

 

To my knowledge, there have been no documented cases of any fully vaccinated individuals dying *from* COVID-19. The vaccines approved in the US have so far been 100% effective in preventing death from COVID. I do believe there have been some hospitalizations of fully vaccinated patients for COVID, but those are also very rare. I will see if I can find links.

 

In this article from April 30, they say that 88 fully vaccinated people had died, but it's not clear they died *of* COVID-19. There is a line in there that says 11 of the deaths were not related to COVID-19, which makes me wonder why they were reported.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/30/fact-check-misleading-claim-deaths-fully-vaccinated-people/4856504001/

 

Here is more current data posted on the CDC website:

 

Hospitalized or fatal COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC as of May 10, 2021

As of May 10, 2021, more than 115 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19. During the same time, CDC received reports from 46 U.S. states and territories of vaccine breakthrough cases in patients who were hospitalized or died.

Total number of vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC

Hospitalized or fatal vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC	1,359
Female	704	(52%)
People aged ≥65 years	1,080	(79%)
Asymptomatic infections	282	(21%)
Hospitalizations*	1,136	(84%)
Deaths†	223	(16%)

*342 (30%) of 1,136 hospitalizations reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.
†42 (18%) of 223 fatal cases reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.

Edited May 18, 2021 by JamieLogical

[Alegeeter]

There have been deaths due to complications of COVID-19 in those fully vaccinated. Though, in most those cases, it's because of vaccine failure - those  vaccinated but amounted no antibodies to the virus, likely due to the patient having an immunocompromising condition like cancer or autoimmune disease that prevents the body from doing so. This is why it's so important that we reach herd immunity, so that everyone can be protected and not just those who can be successful with the vaccine. 

[Laszlo]

37 minutes ago, Alegeeter said:

There have been deaths due to complications of COVID-19 in those fully vaccinated with the vaccine. 

Do you have any facts to backup that statement? Reports? Links? 

[JamieLogical]

2 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Do you have any facts to backup that statement? Reports? Links? 

 

The quote from the CDC website I posted above does back that up, somewhat. They have received reports of 223 deaths of fully vaccinated people. Of those "42 (18%) of 223 fatal cases reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19", but that still leaves the other 181 that may have died of COVID.

[Laszlo]

17 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

The quote from the CDC website I posted above does back that up, somewhat. They have received reports of 223 deaths of fully vaccinated people. Of those "42 (18%) of 223 fatal cases reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19", but that still leaves the other 181 that may have died of COVID.

Thanks, I missed that

[graphicguy]

NONE have died solely BECAUSE of the COVID Vaccine.  Last stat I saw (USA Today?) stated 88 people in the U.S. have died shortly after receiving the COVID Vaccine.  What I couldn't find is whether it was after the 1st dose or the 2nd dose, nor what other contributing factors may have caused those mortalities.

 

Still holding at 94%-97% efficacy (depending on vaccine version) against COVID, which is remarkable.  Regardless of the stat, or where you look, the success of the COVID Vaccine thus far as been amazing.  And, is the major reason for the precipitous and dramatic drop in infections and death.

 

It's easy to understand NCL's requirements to have 100% of crew and passengers fully vaccinated.

Edited May 18, 2021 by graphicguy

[seemoreroyals]

Agree 100% vaccination for cruising is the best solution to getting cruise industry going successfully.  Wife and I are fully vaccinated and good to go for our December cruise out of NOLA.  We no longer fear catching Covid from anyone but what we do fear is having our cruise affected or cut short by some sort of outbreak of Covid forcing quarantine or other disruption of our cruise.  No vaccination, no cruise.  Maybe that way a few more holdouts will get vaccines moving us closer to herd immunity.  

Edited May 18, 2021 by seemoreroyals

[Alegeeter]

3 hours ago, graphicguy said:

NONE have died solely BECAUSE of the COVID Vaccine.  Last stat I saw (USA Today?) stated 88 people in the U.S. have died shortly after receiving the COVID Vaccine.  What I couldn't find is whether it was after the 1st dose or the 2nd dose, nor what other contributing factors may have caused those mortalities.

 

Still holding at 94%-97% efficacy (depending on vaccine version) against COVID, which is remarkable.  Regardless of the stat, or where you look, the success of the COVID Vaccine thus far as been amazing.  And, is the major reason for the precipitous and dramatic drop in infections and death.

 

It's easy to understand NCL's requirements to have 100% of crew and passengers fully vaccinated.

We aren't saying people died because of the vaccine. We are talking about people who were vaccinated, still got COVID-19 and died. This is to be expected. But the numbers are certainly lower than they would be in an unvaccinated population and shows that the vaccine effort is working. The only way to get deaths down to 0 is to reach herd immunity so that there is no spread of the virus. Vaccination is much more of a community effort than an individual one.

 

- Your local epidemiologist.

[graphicguy]

Just now, Alegeeter said:

We aren't saying people died because of the vaccine. We are talking about people who were vaccinated, still got COVID-19 and died. This is to be expected. But the numbers are certainly lower than they would be in an unvaccinated population and shows that the vaccine effort is working. The only way to get deaths down to 0 is to reach herd immunity so that there is no spread of the virus. Vaccination is much more of a community effort than an individual one.

 

- Your local epidemiologist.

Thank you!  Agree!

[JamieLogical]

5 minutes ago, Alegeeter said:

We aren't saying people died because of the vaccine. We are talking about people who were vaccinated, still got COVID-19 and died. This is to be expected. But the numbers are certainly lower than they would be in an unvaccinated population and shows that the vaccine effort is working. The only way to get deaths down to 0 is to reach herd immunity so that there is no spread of the virus. Vaccination is much more of a community effort than an individual one.

 

- Your local epidemiologist.

 

Absolutely. Sorry for any confusion. My above posts were talking about deaths from COVID in fully vaccinated patients, not deaths from the vaccine itself. As far as I know, there are only something like 3 suspected deaths that *might* be attributable to the J&J vaccine in the US. Considering we are nearing 300,000,000 doses of vaccine administered in the US, even if all three of those deaths did end up being directly related to the vaccine, that works out to 1 in 100,000,000. Meanwhile, nearly 1 in 500 Americans have already died from COVID.

[CptBoatface]

19 hours ago, CaptainWoody said:

Highly unlikely.  Covid has always been simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

Agree, something like 68% of sub-70 age hospitalization and death were obese.  But we can't talk about that, it might mean taking personal responsibility for a condition that regularly kills over 500k a year in normal years 

[Alegeeter]

And many sub-70 obese people might enjoy a cruise, so I'm glad we all agree that cruise lines taking precautions is warranted.

 

An obese person may get COVID and die. 

Someone with COVID doesn't become obese and die, just like with any acute and chronic condition.

 

If someone is obese and has a heart attack and dies, what do you think is listed on their death certificate? It would like say "Heart attack" and a contributing COD may say obesity. This means yes obesity was a contributing factor of the death but if it were not for the heart attack the person would still be alive. COVID deaths are no different. Sure, obesity and hypertension put someone at risk for death, but without COVID that person would not have died at that time. COD "Complications due to COVID-19 secondary to obesity and hypertension."

 

[Joan18]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:14 PM, JamieLogical said:

 

Until the end of October, NCL will require 100% of passengers to be vaccinated with no exemptions for people who are unable to get the vaccines (including children under 12).

 

"The safety and security of our guests, crew and communities we visit is our number one priority. In order to provide the safest cruise experience possible, all guests and crew will need to be fully vaccinated for all sailings with embarkation dates prior to October 31, 2021. Therefore, minors who have not yet been eligible to be vaccinated will not be permitted to sail on these voyages. Minors who have been fully vaccinated are welcome to sail."

I think it will change again in 6 months. Down here in Miami news is getting better by the day. Today MDCPS students effectively immediately don’t have to wear masks outside like during pe or sports. Going to keep my reservation for my family. It’s not until next summer anyways. 

[JamieLogical]

Not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but the mandate for face coverings on NCL sailings is no longer listed on the Sail Safe page: https://www.ncl.com/sail-safe

 

The first question in the FAQ now reads:

Are face coverings required?

Our cruises will operate with 100% vaccination of guests and crew through 10/31/21, therefore face coverings are not required but are highly recommended where physical distancing is not possible indoors for cruises prior to 10/31/21.

[roger001]

I sue as hell hope they continue with the 100% vaccination and no masks.  After I hear reports on the first sailings, I'll then be ready to start booking.  But with masks and unvaccinated, no.  

[JamieLogical]

1 minute ago, roger001 said:

I sue as hell hope they continue with the 100% vaccination and no masks.  After I hear reports on the first sailings, I'll then be ready to start booking.  But with masks and unvaccinated, no.  

 

Well, as of right now, both of those extend through at least 10/31. 100% vaccination and no mask requirement on board.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

Not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but the mandate for face coverings on NCL sailings is no longer listed on the Sail Safe page: https://www.ncl.com/sail-safe

 

The first question in the FAQ now reads:

Are face coverings required?

Our cruises will operate with 100% vaccination of guests and crew through 10/31/21, therefore face coverings are not required but are highly recommended where physical distancing is not possible indoors for cruises prior to 10/31/21.

THAT is what I have been waiting for. Fully vaccinated cruises for me and hubby for sure. That will offer the closest to normal  cruise experience and keep everyone safe and have so little risk of disruption of the cruise.

[JamieLogical]

Just now, coffeebean said:

THAT is what I have been waiting for. Fully vaccinated cruises for me and hubby for sure. That will offer the closest to normal  cruise experience and keep everyone safe and have so little risk of disruption of the cruise.

 

Fully vaccinated cruises happening out of Jamaica and the DR in August. You should come on one of our September sailings on the Joy!

[happy cruzer]

So if the fully vaccinated requirement is dropped between now and sailing, there could be tough decisions to be made by those who are booked. The cruise lines also mentioned reduced occupancy as a protocol but it is hard to see if that is being implemented.  Time will tell.

[Red-Sol]

1 hour ago, happy cruzer said:

So if the fully vaccinated requirement is dropped between now and sailing, there could be tough decisions to be made by those who are booked. The cruise lines also mentioned reduced occupancy as a protocol but it is hard to see if that is being implemented.  Time will tell.

Not sure when/if NCL will change/amend any of their requirements...however I think that by keeping a policy of fully vaccinated could very well be a distinct marketing advantage for them...but just as you say 'Time Will Tell"

[graphicguy]

I know some have seen this, and I posted it in another thread, but there's a wealth of info from NCL contained in this link.

 

https://www.ncl.com/sail-safe#t4m1

 

Of interest here...

 

 

• For cruises with embarkation dates through October 31, 2021, all guests must provide proof of being fully vaccinated for COVID-19 at least 2 weeks prior to their sail date with an authorized vaccine;
• Any documentation required from the country where you are embarking the vessel. This could include proof of a negative COVID-19 test result for entry into the country and will vary by departure country and is the responsibility of the guest;
• Negative COVID-19 antigen test result prior to embarkation, which will be administered and paid for by cruise line

Cruises with embarkation dates through October 31, 2021: 
 

 

Proof of vaccination must be submitted prior to sailing. Proof must be in the form of the original vaccination record document issued by either the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination or the guest's medical provider that completed the vaccine administration. Electronic vaccination records will be accepted for residents of countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form. Communication regarding proof of vaccination submission will be sent to all booked guests in the 30 days prior to setting sail.

 

And.....finally (Thanks to @JamieLogical).....

 

Our cruises will operate with 100% vaccination of guests and crew through 10/31/21, therefore face coverings are not required but are highly recommended where physical distancing is not possible indoors for cruises prior to 10/31/21.

Edited May 21, 2021 by graphicguy