Interesting read, DeSantis doesn't seem to be caving anytime soon.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

3 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

I always struggle with this.  Someone didnt say NO you CAN use it.  They said YES you CAN use it. playing semantics with the word Approved is just lame.  The vaccines were "approved for use" regardless of its stage of testing.  They limited its use and rolled it out to more and more age groups as testing was completed.  Its not like they said oh lets give it to the elderly and see if they survive it first before we give it to others.  Test results showed it was effective in that age group which was the most vulnerable and then as test results showed it was effective on each successive age group it was rolled down to them.   I could see if it was only one vaccine but theres multiple vaccines out there being used.  Are they all bad??? 

 

And, once FULL approval comes to pass - which of the other excuses will move to the top of the list?

 

Tom

[kdr69]

41 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

the cruise industry isn't just going to pickup and move to Mobile or Nassau and not miss a beat. 

So they should just accept they cant open for business without Florida then and file for bankruptcy right?? Cause they aint sailing the way it stands now out of Florida.  

[kdr69]

4 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

And, once FULL approval comes to pass - which of the other excuses will move to the top of the list?

 

Tom

Correct they will find one im sure.  The Magnetism excuse doesnt seem to be working for some of them right now. 🤣🤣

[TNcruising02]

I'm not sure why some people think waiting until the vaccines are FDA approved or until more time goes by to see the risks is a bad thing.  Then there are those who have already been infected and have natural immunity.   Thank goodness we live in a country where we are still free to make this choice regarding our own risks and health.  People have legitimate concerns.  Those who insist that everyone is vaccinated right now or they are horrible people are so judgmental it's crazy.

 

Anyway, some cruises are going to sail with unvaccinated people.  RCL has already made that decision whether people like it or not.  I would be willing to bet those cruises will be just fine and positive cases will simply be quarantined.  Carnival keeps flip flopping, which must be frustrating to many people.  I am vaccinated, so can roll with it either way.  If the CDC would get off of its high horse regarding ridiculous mask mandates, then it would be much better in my opinion.

Edited June 10, 2021 by TNcruising02

[bamaone]

Just now, kdr69 said:

So they should just accept they cant open for business without Florida then and file for bankruptcy right?? Cause they aint sailing the way it stands now out of Florida.  

I don't agree with you on this. There is always the test route. The CDC can and does make changes to their policies  every day it seems. Florida may have work arounds. So, I do believe something will be done and cruising will start soon.

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

Then there are those who have already been infected and have natural immunity.

Ive had Covid and yes i probably had some level of immunity to getting that particular strain again.  For just how long hasnt been established yet fully and you could still get infected by a variant(of which they are increasing) of Covid again .  That being said the Vaccines have proven to be effective not only in boosting that natural immunity but also in blocking reinfection caused by variants which is why i got my vaccination. Theres 4 different variants out there now A,B,C,D.  Im not wanting to catch this another 4 times so i can remain "natural"

[TNcruising02]

4 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Ive had Covid and yes i probably had some level of immunity to getting that particular strain again.  For just how long hasnt been established yet fully and you could still get infected by a variant(of which they are increasing) of Covid again .  That being said the Vaccines have proven to be effective not only in boosting that natural immunity but also in blocking reinfection caused by variants which is why i got my vaccination. Theres 4 different variants out there now A,B,C,D.  Im not wanting to catch this another 4 times so i can remain "natural"

There have been studies showing that people who have been infected by covid may also be immune to variants.  As of now, they do not know if natural infection is better or worse than being vaccinated.  However, people who have recovered are being treated as if they have no immunities.  That doesn't follow the science.  There are many articles about it now.

Blood samples from patients who have recovered from the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) showed that T-cell response was able to recognize emerging variants and protect against them, according to a paper published in Open Forum Infectious Diseases.

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-covid-recognizes-variants

Edited June 10, 2021 by TNcruising02

[kdr69]

10 minutes ago, bamaone said:

I don't agree with you on this. There is always the test route. The CDC can and does make changes to their policies  every day it seems. Florida may have work arounds. So, I do believe something will be done and cruising will start soon.

Well i agree for sure why the cant the cruise line spend the tens of millions of dollars on test cruises and unvaccinated protocols so we can cruise unvaccinated.  I mean is it really too much of an ask given the 100's of millions they've been spending each month for the past year trying to keep the lights on?🙄 

[kdr69]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

As of now, they do not know if natural infection is better or worse than being vaccinated.

True but what they do know right now that it helps being vaccinated. And if it helps in any way shape or form getting us past this thing im all for it.  (let me preface that with Proven it helps folks.  not ingesting any liquids on a whim here)🙄

[TNcruising02]

4 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

True but what they do know right now that it helps being vaccinated. And if it helps in any way shape or form getting us past this thing im all for it.  (let me preface that with Proven it helps folks.  not ingesting any liquids on a whim here)🙄

However, it might come to pass that those who have had previous covid infections may have an advantage over those who were never infected, but are vaccinated. What if a previous infection does help protect against variants better than the vaccination?  That would mean those who cruise and are exposed to variants at the ports my actually be safer if they had a previous infection.  That would also mean that it was better for healthy people to be exposed to the virus than sheltered in place and vaccinated. Anyway, it's too soon to tell either way.

 I think both previously infected people and those who have been vaccinated are lower risk.  My personal opinion is that those who have had covid and have been vaccinated are protected the best.

Edited June 10, 2021 by TNcruising02

[bamaone]

9 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Well i agree for sure why the cant the cruise line spend the tens of millions of dollars on test cruises and unvaccinated protocols so we can cruise unvaccinated.  I mean is it really too much of an ask given the 100's of millions they've been spending each month for the past year trying to keep the lights on?🙄 

I guess this is one we'll just have to wait and see exactly how it plays out. Either way I won't be surprised. 

[kdr69]

3 minutes ago, bamaone said:

I guess this is one we'll just have to wait and see exactly how it plays out. Either way I won't be surprised. 

Agree Im long since passed the surprise part of this whole thing.

[mouche]

21 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Well i agree for sure why the cant the cruise line spend the tens of millions of dollars on test cruises and unvaccinated protocols so we can cruise unvaccinated.  I mean is it really too much of an ask given the 100's of millions they've been spending each month for the past year trying to keep the lights on?🙄 

Exactly!!!

[kdr69]

8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

However, it might come to pass that those who have had previous covid infections may have an advantage over those who were never infected, but are vaccinated. What if a previous infection does help protect against variants better than the vaccination?  That would mean those who cruise and are exposed to variants at the ports my actually be safer if they had a previous infection.  That would also mean that it was better for healthy people to be exposed to the virus than sheltered in place and vaccinated. Anyway, it's too soon to tell either way.

 I think both previously infected people and those who have been vaccinated are lower risk.  My personal opinion is that those who have had covid and have been vaccinated are protected the best.

Ok but still; getting a vaccine isnt going to erase that protection its only going to add to it.  Unless someone can prove having too many antibodies against a virus is a bad thing?

[sm3ds]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

 

. No matter what line in the sand someone draws on today's vaccination debate, the cruise industry isn't just going to pickup and move to Mobile or Nassau and not miss a beat. 

Especially since Alabama has vaccine passport ban and one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country. 

[quattrohead]

Washington State are giving out joints and beer to people that get the jab....way too desperate of an approach for me.

I think I had it before it was a thing and I am taking reasonable precautions to a standard that suites me. Waiting for more studies before I get jabbed.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

5 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

Especially since Alabama has vaccine passport ban and one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country. 

 

From CNN today (no surprises here - looks like a Blue vs Red list):

 

Vaccination rates throughout the country are continuing at an uneven pace. Eight states have fully vaccinated more than half of their residents: Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Vermont, which leads the country with nearly 60% of residents fully vaccinated, recent CDC data shows.

 

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee and Wyoming have among the lowest vaccination rates in the country, according to CDC data. And officials are urging citizens that the best way to get ahead of the variants is with vaccinations.

 

 

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

3 minutes ago, quattrohead said:

Washington State are giving out joints and beer to people that get the jab....way too desperate of an approach for me.

I think I had it before it was a thing and I am taking reasonable precautions to a standard that suites me. Waiting for more studies before I get jabbed.

 

I am all for whatever creative efforts will encourage additional people to step up to the plate.

[cscurlock]

5 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

Especially since Alabama has vaccine passport ban and one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country. 

A ban with no penalty.  So what are the consequences again?

[sm3ds]

1 minute ago, cscurlock said:

A ban with no penalty.  So what are the consequences again?

Regardless I don't see Mobile as becoming the next cruise mecca. 

[cscurlock]

1 minute ago, sm3ds said:

Regardless I don't see Mobile as becoming the next cruise mecca. 

Well, you have LA, AL, TX. Those should all be enough for now.  But I don't think it matters because FL is resuming cruising anyways.  Celebrity will be sailing in 16 days with others to follow.  At the end of the day when all is said and done nothing will be decided with these lawsuits until well after November.  At that point they won't even matter. 

[kdr69]

13 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

I am all for whatever creative efforts will encourage additional people to step up to the plate.

Im still ticked off i didnt hold off my vaccination until the million dollar lottery incentive came into effect.😆

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

2 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Im still ticked off i didnt hold off my vaccination until the million dollar lottery incentive came into effect.😆

Well.. can you get an "entry" for every time you get vaccinated? Just get in line again -- lol

[Lee Cruiser]

30 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

From CNN today (no surprises here - looks like a Blue vs Red list):

 

Vaccination rates throughout the country are continuing at an uneven pace. Eight states have fully vaccinated more than half of their residents: Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Vermont, which leads the country with nearly 60% of residents fully vaccinated, recent CDC data shows.

 

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee and Wyoming have among the lowest vaccination rates in the country, according to CDC data. And officials are urging citizens that the best way to get ahead of the variants is with vaccinations.

 

 

And yet the number of new cases have fallen the same in these states. 

[Joebucks]

32 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

True but what they do know right now that it helps being vaccinated. And if it helps in any way shape or form getting us past this thing im all for it.  (let me preface that with Proven it helps folks.  not ingesting any liquids on a whim here)🙄

 

That's the problem. Without getting too political or conspiracy-like, the safety topic has no black and white and will never go away. It is talked about in food, alcohol, tobacco, media content, leisure, travel, guns, chemicals, even political thoughts, etc etc. It's real easy to throw out a ploy to "do better" or "this blanket change helps". At the end of the day, we've learned to not accept everything at face value. If there is no proof my natural immunity is a threat to anyone, the only thing we have proved to "help" is a politicized fear.