Cruising affordability

[iancal]

This is a non issue.  Just ask the average person on the street how concerned they are about raising cruise prices or whether they give a care.    I think I know what the response would be.

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

You chose Sociology or Poly Sci over Economics 201? 🤯 

Didn't you know economics were always the best and most fun courses on campus 🥳 

...... 

 

😁

 

 

 

 

 

 

😇  Just trying to protect my GPA.  😀

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

This is a non issue.  Just ask the average person on the street how concerned they are about raising cruise prices or whether they give a care.    I think I know what the response would be.

I think the average person on the street and the average Cruise Critic member are two entirely different people.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Discretionary spending, just like any other budgetary concern, is a lifetime of learning, is it not? Financial concerns require hindsight as well as foresight and the ability to recognize where, in the total pecuniary scheme of things, you will comfortably fit. Make no mistake, no matter how keen your judgement, luck and happenstance play a crucial role in your ongoing economic well-being.

 

Well said.  Many, if not most, of us senior citizens were raised by Grandparents and Parents who experienced the Great Depression.  Lessons were learned from them by us.  (I know I did!)  

 

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

p.s. We are now in an environment where tax increases are a virtual certainty, where inflation is now seen as a virtual certainty, and the stock markets are almost certainly at an unsustainable level:  meaning that for a lot of people discretionary spending will have to be cut.

 

Are "the chickens coming home to roost", finally, after the too many years when the mantra was "cut, cut, and then cut some more" taxes?  Needed public services have been starved in many States as well as in our country as a whole.  As a country--and in my State--we kept trying to "loosen the tax belt" a notch at a time.  Are we now facing having to "tighten that belt" by more notches than would be necessary if the proper investments had been made in earlier years?  

 

1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

my marginal tax rate, already close to 50% will likely be heading north too!   

 

And, I think my tax rate is too high!  😲

[DirtyDawg]

35 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

😇  Just trying to protect my GPA.  😀

 

When I was looking for course in 2nd year university I found 'Science for the Arts Student' which was filled with jocks from the hockey and football teams and those of us who needed a 'bird' course to pump up our marks. I needed a high average to get into business school in 3rd year. The original instructor was not available so the head of the genetics department had to take over. He turned the course into Genetics 101 and man, was it hard. Most of the class quit after the first lecture (which was his intent all along I still believe) but a few of us decided to tough it out. It turned out to be the most fascinating course I ever took at university. Incredibly hard for this non science student, but incredibly fascinating. Thank god I did really well in two computer science courses that year so I could get into business school because my final mark in genetics was only a B. (and I had to work my a$$ off to get that!)

Edited June 18, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[rkacruiser]

5 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

He turned the course into Genetics 101 and man, was it hard

 

As a Zoology major, I understand.  I had 2 or 3 Genetics courses in college and graduate school.  Challenging, but quite interesting.  During my Senior year, the class had a lab component with one of our projects was working with Drosophila (the common fruit fly).  Our class was in a small lab with strict security protocols to keep the flies under control.  Close to the end of the class, someone(s) didn't do something correctly, and a few of the flies escaped into the room.  They are quick reproducers.  It was good that it was near the end of the course when this happened.  The lab had to be fumigated and sealed for a period of time.  Our professor was not very happy with us!  

[DirtyDawg]

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

As a Zoology major, I understand.  I had 2 or 3 Genetics courses in college and graduate school.  Challenging, but quite interesting.  During my Senior year, the class had a lab component with one of our projects was working with Drosophila (the common fruit fly).  Our class was in a small lab with strict security protocols to keep the flies under control.  Close to the end of the class, someone(s) didn't do something correctly, and a few of the flies escaped into the room.  They are quick reproducers.  It was good that it was near the end of the course when this happened.  The lab had to be fumigated and sealed for a period of time.  Our professor was not very happy with us!  

Hey, did those students who let the flies out happen to get jobs in a lab in Wuhan? 😄

 

(Sorry, bad joke)

[SelectSys]

3 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Discretionary spending, just like any other budgetary concern, is a lifetime of learning, is it not? ...  All piggy banks are not equally full... Whether it’s more on entertainment/travel or life’s necessities, it will get spent. And, cruising will see lots of those dollars.     

Some haven't learned those lessons well of general responsibility well.  You are certainly right about "piggy banks" not being equal!   Some huge percentage of US residents live paycheck to paycheck (or government transfer payment) without savings. That said, I agree that cruising will continue to be a vibrant industry.

 

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

p.s. We are now in an environment where tax increases are a virtual certainty, where inflation is now seen as a virtual certainty, and the stock markets are almost certainly at an unsustainable level:  meaning that for a lot of people discretionary spending will have to be cut.

You mean that taxes (indirect and direct) are going up on everyone?  I thought the president said the middle class was going to be exempt from increases and only the really rich would pay?

 

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Same with political action. If you don’t like the economic policy then vote the guys out. 

Not an option in certain places like CA that have embraced one party rule.   We will need a crisis to move to a more balanced environment.

 

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The problem with a democracy is the fact that all one has to do is convince  about 60% of the electorate that the richest 40% can be made to pay for everything that 60% wants.   This may be why very few democracies last more than 250 years without having to be substantially reorganized.

If you are correct, we seem to be running on borrowed time in the US.  It certainly is the case in CA with people voting for every tax on the ballot!  Funny thing as that they even vote for regressive taxes too.  I guess it's a reflection that arithmetic isn't really stressed in the schools these days.

 

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

There are a variety of voting options, a popular one is known as voting with your feet. ( this is a lighthearted off topic comment)

People bring their politics with them.  California is a classic case of moving from liberalism to progressivism.  Believe it or not, we actually used to elect Republicans and Democrats to state wide offices.  Now we are truly the People's Republic of California and have completely embraced one party rule.

 

2 hours ago, iancal said:

This is a non issue.  Just ask the average person on the street how concerned they are about raising cruise prices or whether they give a care.    I think I know what the response would be.

Absolutely correct!  While I couldn't find data for other countries, only 31% of US residents have ever been on a cruise and 12% are regular cruise goers - once a year or more.  I expect Canada, UK, Australia and Europe to be similar to the US in terms of percentages.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2019/09/25/outlook-cruise-industry-and-its-passengers

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by SelectSys

[rkacruiser]

19 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Hey, did those students who let the flies out happen to get jobs in a lab in Wuhan? 😄

 

(Sorry, bad joke)

 

No, it's not a bad joke.  It's reality.  Lab accidents happen.  What is bad about the current situation is the lack of transparency as to what indeed did take place in Wuhan?  If anything?  

 

In the situation that I cited, no one of us students realized that it was "me" that caused the situation.  But, we all knew that it could have been our carelessness that caused it.  It was a learning situation that was not on the course's syllabus.  

[rkacruiser]

23 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

I guess it's a reflection that arithmetic isn't really stressed in the schools these days.

 

Financial literacy is not being taught in many of today's families, I believe.  Nor is it being taught in schools.  However!  I have seen some glimmer of hope that the realization is starting to dawn that a short course ought to be added to the high school curriculum.  Maybe a semester course of financial literacy with the other semester being driver education?  😲 

 

25 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Not an option in certain places like CA that have embraced one party rule.   We will need a crisis to move to a more balanced environment.

 

The great state of Ohio is currently in such a situation.  However, our Senior Senator as well as a minority of our State's Supreme Court Justices are of the "other" Party.  

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

I believe that this is very simple.

 

If you believe that cruise prices are too high simply vote with your feet and with your wallet and don't buy a cruise.  Not much different than any other product or service.

Right, and the law of supply and demand will respond. 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

As a Zoology major, I understand.  I had 2 or 3 Genetics courses in college and graduate school.  Challenging, but quite interesting.  During my Senior year, the class had a lab component with one of our projects was working with Drosophila (the common fruit fly).  Our class was in a small lab with strict security protocols to keep the flies under control.  Close to the end of the class, someone(s) didn't do something correctly, and a few of the flies escaped into the room.  They are quick reproducers.  It was good that it was near the end of the course when this happened.  The lab had to be fumigated and sealed for a period of time.  Our professor was not very happy with us!  

Was your professor "the Lord of the Flies"?🤣

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Was your professor "the Lord of the Flies"?🤣

 

Actually, the professor was respectfully known by his students as The Bird Man.  His specialty was ornithology. 

[Mike981]

22 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Financial literacy is not being taught in many of today's families, I believe.  Nor is it being taught in schools.  However!  I have seen some glimmer of hope that the realization is starting to dawn that a short course ought to be added to the high school curriculum.  Maybe a semester course of financial literacy with the other semester being driver education?  😲 

 

 

I am 54 and I can tell you it was never even a thought to offer it during my schooling. Lord knows I could have used it. My girl friend (now wife) came to visit me in college and saw my open check register and asked what NFI meant. I said it stands for No F___ idea. She then responded, "I'll take care the financial stuff when we get married."

She is now a Financial Coach.

 

[getting older slowly]

Prices going up..... is part of life.....

cost of cruises going up.....   don't cruise as much or lower your standard...

 

It come back to it Live within your means......  pretty simple.....

but credit is so easy and offered to all..... and people forget it is not their money....

 

Being retied one has a finite amount.... so when one spends now one looked at the enjoyment of travel, vs the cost    .... then decided......   it becomes quality vs quantity   maybe....   

or just do it because you can and you have the capital to do it ......

 

Example   

buying yellow fin Tuna,, buy the average ( $45 per kilo ) or the best quality. ($90 per kilo )..??

It is up to you

 

[navybankerteacher]

2 minutes ago, getting older slowly said:

Prices going up..... is part of life.....

cost of cruises going up.....   don't cruise as much or lower your standard...

 

It come back to it Live within your means......  

 

Being retied one has a finite amount.... 

 

That is the problem with IRA's - if you knew how long you would hang around, you could adjust your spending -- prudence usually means leaving a fair amount to your heirs --carpe dieming it risks running out when you still have several years of poverty ahead.

[rkacruiser]

On 6/19/2021 at 8:25 PM, navybankerteacher said:

That is the problem with IRA's - if you knew how long you would hang around, you could adjust your spending -- prudence usually means leaving a fair amount to your heirs --carpe dieming it risks running out when you still have several years of poverty ahead.

 

Very well said!  

 

I have very specific reasons why I want to bequeath a significant part of my Estate to my Alma Mater.  I keep that in mind when I consider discretionary spending.  

 

On 6/19/2021 at 8:18 PM, getting older slowly said:

Example   

buying yellow fin Tuna,, buy the average ( $45 per kilo ) or the best quality. ($90 per kilo )..??

It is up to you

 

It's always been "up to you" except many of the recent generations did not learn nor come to appreciate the ramifications of those two words.

 

Now, don't laugh.  But, when I began my career in the late '60's and would go out for dinner, there might be an internal debate when I looked at the menu.  The steak I wanted was $4.95.  The Chopped Sirloin Steak was more inexpensive.  Which should I order?    

[ldubs]

On 6/19/2021 at 5:25 PM, navybankerteacher said:

That is the problem with IRA's - if you knew how long you would hang around, you could adjust your spending -- prudence usually means leaving a fair amount to your heirs --carpe dieming it risks running out when you still have several years of poverty ahead.

 

Good Ol Uncle Sam pushed the RMD date back.  I get two more years before the IRS finally gets their share!  haha.  

[ldubs]

7 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

 

Now, don't laugh.  But, when I began my career in the late '60's and would go out for dinner, there might be an internal debate when I looked at the menu.  The steak I wanted was $4.95.  The Chopped Sirloin Steak was more inexpensive.  Which should I order?    

 

I still go through that thought process.  I think it is a good attitude to have.     

[ldubs]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:42 AM, navybankerteacher said:

The problem with a democracy is the fact that all one has to do is convince  about 60% of the electorate that the richest 40% can be made to pay for everything that 60% wants.   This may be why very few democracies last more than 250 years without having to be substantially reorganized.

 

That is why anyone with clear thinking would abhor a pure democracy.  The majority should never be able to vote away the rights of the individual or the minority.  Maybe our politicians need to be reminded we are a constitutional republic.  

[ldubs]

On 6/18/2021 at 1:43 PM, SelectSys said:

 

Absolutely correct!  While I couldn't find data for other countries, only 31% of US residents have ever been on a cruise and 12% are regular cruise goers - once a year or more.  I expect Canada, UK, Australia and Europe to be similar to the US in terms of percentages.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2019/09/25/outlook-cruise-industry-and-its-passengers

 

 

I would have never guessed that almost a third of American's have been on cruises.  I would have thought the number to be much lower.  

[ldubs]

On 6/16/2021 at 3:37 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Perhaps the “college for everyone” model is not the best in the long run— for students or for the economy as a whole.  A several year technical or trade school can do a lot more for many individuals , while upgrading our work force.  Spending four years and many tens of thousands of dollars to get a degree without some notion of how that learning is to be applied is simply a costly long shot.   Countries with free, or close to free, higher education do not make it available for everyone - testing takes place at several levels - which essentially determine which students are fit for academic, or occupational, programs.

 

I'm tending to agree in principal, but have concerns about trade schools being more about student loan money grabs than about graduating students that know anything about their intended trade.    

[SelectSys]

38 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I would have never guessed that almost a third of American's have been on cruises.  I would have thought the number to be much lower.  

I was a little surprised by this as well but then I thought of the difference between cruises and lines.  Pre pandemic, cruising was very affordable to just about anyone.  3-4 day cruises from LA started for sometimes less than $300. 

 

There also are a fair number of one and done cruisers.  One of my siblings as well as a close friend fall into this category.  I told both that they simply picked the wrong cruise.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm tending to agree in principal, but have concerns about trade schools being more about student loan money grabs than about graduating students that know anything about their intended trade.    

That is a another different problem rooting out the schools that are not real schools, but only in it for the money. 

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

That is why anyone with clear thinking would abhor a pure democracy.  The majority should never be able to vote away the rights of the individual or the minority.  Maybe our politicians need to be reminded we are a constitutional republic.  

And not just a constitutional republic - but a republic which is a federation of individual states - each with its own interests, values and rights.  The whole structure was carefully crafted to avoid the trap represented by mindless adherence to sweet-sounding cliches like “majority rules” and “one man one vote” —- sadly there are too few who understand such matters.