Captain Refuses Vaccine

[rogerdawhip]

I just received an email from Grand Circle Cruise Line regarding my September Paris to Normandy cruise.  They are informing all passengers that the Captain and seven crew members have refused the Covid Vaccine.  The cruise is still a go but we were given three options.  Reschedule the cruise for 2022,  get a full refund, of take the cruise as scheduled. I plan on taking the cruise as scheduled. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

I wouldn’t. Not that I’d worry about getting COVID, but with that attitude what other Government guidelines does that Captain not wish to comply with?

[CPT Trips]

Everything I read from GCT/OAT is that all of their ship crew, drivers, trip leaders/PDs, and guides as well as all pax will be fully vaccinated. Did they give any indication whether they would replace the unvaxed captain and crew?

 

From their website - “Vaccinations now required for all Travelers, Ship Crew, Trip Experience Leaders, Program Directors, and Coach Drivers” More specifics at https://www.oattravel.com/marketing/2021/coronavirus-update

 

[Coral]

I probably would not go. Right now, I am trying to spend time with only vaccinated individuals.

[ljandgb]

I would probably ask for a full refund.  I would not want to support a business that is not 100% trying to keep its passengers and crew safe.

[SCBarker]

Wow. That is really odd. I wonder if they are claiming some type of religious exemption?  They must have some tight employee-favored contracts to keep them in a consumer-faced role.  If they kept their job here after refusing, they'd be whisked away to a maintenance yard no where near the public.

[dogs4fun]

12 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

Everything I read from GCT/OAT is that all of their ship crew, drivers, trip leaders/PDs, and guides as well as all pax will be fully vaccinated. Did they give any indication whether they would replace the unvaxed captain and crew?

 

From their website - “Vaccinations now required for all Travelers, Ship Crew, Trip Experience Leaders, Program Directors, and Coach Drivers” More specifics at https://www.oattravel.com/marketing/2021/coronavirus-update

 

With the above information in mind, I suspect that the captain and his crew may not sail. Don't see how they could is vaccinations are a requirement.

Edited June 18, 2021 by dogs4fun

[rogerdawhip]

The following was included in the email from GCCL:

 

These staff members have made a personal decision to not be vaccinated and are entitled to this choice based on bargaining rights achieved through maritime unions in France.

 

I have heard that unions in France are very strong.  I have until 6/23 to make my decision. 

[mapsd]

18 hours ago, rogerdawhip said:

I just received an email from Grand Circle Cruise Line regarding my September Paris to Normandy cruise.  They are informing all passengers that the Captain and seven crew members have refused the Covid Vaccine.  The cruise is still a go but we were given three options.  Reschedule the cruise for 2022,  get a full refund, of take the cruise as scheduled. I plan on taking the cruise as scheduled. 

I'd make the same decision.

No way do I want to wait another year, & it might be near impossible to book an alternative river cruise this late in the game.

 

I think it's all but impossible to get fired in France.

Won't be surprised to see the refuseniks get "reassigned" to other duties that don't have direct contact with passengers. 

[Canal archive]

Most river cruise companies hire there crews from a company in Germany which supplies both maritime and hotel staff. There are not that many in a maritime crew so I wonder if this number includes hotel staff. CA

[CPT Trips]

10 minutes ago, Canal archive said:

Most river cruise companies hire there crews from a company in Germany which supplies both maritime and hotel staff. There are not that many in a maritime crew so I wonder if this number includes hotel staff. CA

When we cruised French rivers with GCT, the maritime crew were all French. A can’t recall the nationality of the hotel staff.

I do recall that maritime crew got at least one day off for each day they worked. So there would be more than 8 maritime staff for the ship.

[chengkp75]

19 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

When we cruised French rivers with GCT, the maritime crew were all French. A can’t recall the nationality of the hotel staff.

I do recall that maritime crew got at least one day off for each day they worked. So there would be more than 8 maritime staff for the ship.

You asked me to look at this thread and comment, but not sure what you want my thoughts on.

[CPT Trips]

Thanks for stopping over.  The issue, as you may have seen is detailed in the first post. As I know you have experience with maritime labor and unions I hoped you might be able to comment on the issue of crew refusing vaccines and still working on a cruise ship. The river cruise in question is entirely in France.

The company involved has stated that vaccines will be required of everyone on all their cruises, passengers and crew. They also operate river cruises that cross borders as well as ocean cruises on small ships (1200 - 4000 ton).

 

So my questions about this situation:

Do you know if this is strictly a French maritime union issue? If so, would it apply to both maritime crew and hotel staff?

Can the company enforce a vaccine requirement on the crew of their other passenger ships, both river and ocean?

 

Appreciate anything you might know or have an opinion on.  

 

[notamermaid]

It is certainly an interesting question - and issue that has resulted from it. I recall that the contractual side of employees' contracts and trade unions first came up when it was promoted by North-American companies, as well as Riviera and Saga in the UK, that they would require vaccines by either just the passengers or both passengers and crew. @Canal archive and I see this from the EU/German and UK perspective and in both our home countries making it a requirement for existing crew members to keep working for the company, i.e. making it part of their health and safety regime if you like, we tend to think would prove difficult.

 

One also needs to bear in mind that the vaccines are approved for emergency use, so that a company would ask an employee to agree to a medical procedure which is not yet fully approved. Something that at this point in time someone in Germany would surely be willing to challenge in court.

 

The vaccination of the entire crew was always going to be a challenge if they have contracts in the EU, Switzerland or the UK. I as a CEO would not have promoted it in public.

 

My humble opinion.

 

@chengkp75 thanks for dropping by, always nice to hear from you, an expert voice that a laywoman like me appreciates. 🙂

 

notamermaid

 

[CPT Trips]

You would think that the company had all the agreements they needed before they made the unqualified announcement so prominently. We are scheduled on a small ship cruise with this company and are now more than a little concerned that promises may not be kept.

[notamermaid]

CPT Trips, I certainly understand that.

 

The vaccine issue of the crew aside, I am fully convinced that all companies will stick to the code and regulations laid out as a minimum requirement by IG River Cruise. To have to stick to that one would have to be a member of IG River Cruise, I should think . Many lines are, one that is not a member is GCCL. They certainly wanted to add the vaccine requirement and I am sure do the utmost for the health and safety of everyone on a ship, but it has unfortunately not worked out for them with regard to vaccines. Note that German lines what I have heard so far do not have or will have such a requirement.

 

For anyone's interest, here are the members of IG River Cruise: https://www.igrivercruise.com/en/members/

 

See the documents on the right for download on the right about the Covid-19 measures.

 

notamermaid

 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

So my questions about this situation:

Do you know if this is strictly a French maritime union issue? If so, would it apply to both maritime crew and hotel staff?

Can the company enforce a vaccine requirement on the crew of their other passenger ships, both river and ocean?

Afraid I can't answer too well.  I have no idea what unions are involved for the cruise/river crew, or whether the hotel crew are unionized at all.  No idea about the French labor laws.  Not even sure the maritime crew are unionized.  If they are, it could be a term in their collective bargaining agreement regarding vaccinations (and whatever legal status the vaccines have in the EU), or whether French law precludes a vaccine mandate.  As to whether they can enforce a vaccine requirement, that depends completely on Flag state law (I see that they are Maltese), and the labor laws there, as they interact with the EU laws.

[CPT Trips]

Thanks Chief and notamermaid. 👍

[CPT Trips]

Here’s a copy of a letter that is about the vaccine issue on the Grand Circle Cruise Line Seine cruise. Interesting that there are 47 maritime crew! The letter also states that hospitality crew will be vaccinated. 

[CUTTERSAM]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:48 AM, mapsd said:

I'd make the same decision.

No way do I want to wait another year, & it might be near impossible to book an alternative river cruise this late in the game.

 

I think it's all but impossible to get fired in France.

Won't be surprised to see the refuseniks get "reassigned" to other duties that don't have direct contact with passengers. 

I'd go...the point of having a vaccination is to prevent you from getting it or at least getting a mild version of it.  If you have the flu shot and your coworker doesn't, he gets the flu and (hopefully) you don't.