Gratuities Redux

[Neuhoftraveler]

Forgive this post if it's just old news that I missed until now, but I notice that in Cunard's latest promotional emails, the (oxymoronic) "required gratuities" have been re-christened "Hotel and Dining Service Charges."

 

At least this will put an end to the perennial question on this board, "Do I have to pay the gratuities?"

[Host Hattie]

They have been called that for years.

[bluemarble]

@Neuhoftravelermay be referring to something along the lines of what I've also been seeing as a change in the wording of promotions offered here in the US.

 

In the past, promotions have mentioned "Free Gratuities" which is described in the terms and conditions as "Free Gratuities is based on pre-payment by Cunard of suggested gratuities in the amount of $13.50 per person per day for Grill Suites and $11.50 per person per day for Britannia Staterooms."

 

Recently promotions have been saying "Hotel and Dining Service Charge Included" instead. That's described in the terms and conditions as "Included Hotel and Dining Service Charges offer means that Cunard will pre-pay the suggested hotel and dining service charge of $13.50 per person per day for Grill Suites and $11.50 per person per day for Britannia Staterooms."

 

Note this wording uses "suggested" in both instances. I don't personally recall the gratuities being described as "required" in these promotions.

 

As @Host Hattie has indicated, the "gratuities" have been called "hotel and dining service charge" or simply "service charge" for quite a while now. That terminology hasn't made it into the wording of promotions I've seen here in the US until recently though.

Edited July 14, 2021 by bluemarble

[oskidunker]

Gratuities are not mandatory and can be removed if service is bad. Not a usual occurrence but possible. I removed them one in 20 years but there were some real problems even after complaining to higher ups. Last resort for sure but possible. 

[navybankerteacher]

To the extent the gratuities are "expected" it would appear that they would be in recognition of "expected" service.  While it is appropriate to reduce/remove them  for (specified) cause, it should AS LIKELY be seen as appropriate for them to be increased should any aspect of the service exceed  ordinary expectations.

[oskidunker]

19 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

To the extent the gratuities are "expected" it would appear that they would be in recognition of "expected" service.  While it is appropriate to reduce/remove them  for (specified) cause, it should AS LIKELY be seen as appropriate for them to be increased should any aspect of the service exceed  ordinary expectations.

I have also done that. 

[majortom10]

We more often than not remove gratuities at reception with no problems and then we decide what we should pay and not Cunard then pay at the end of the cruise. You dont go into a restaurant for a meal and pay tips/gratuities at the beginning of the meal without not knowing what sort of service you are going to get and what the reward for good service should be so why should cruise lines be any different.

Edited July 15, 2021 by majortom10

[Victoria2]

49 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

We more often than not remove gratuities at reception with no problems and then we decide what we should pay and not Cunard then pay at the end of the cruise. You dont go into a restaurant for a meal and pay tips/gratuities at the beginning of the meal without not knowing what sort of service you are going to get and what the reward for good service should be so why should cruise lines be any different.

We keep the service charge on and add personal gratuities.

Works for us but I totally appreciate everyone has their own method and each one is personal and nothing to do with anyone else.

[Windsurfboy]

I just wish they'd get rid of gratuities or whatever they want to  call them , add it into the price, and pay staff a corresponding amount more. Pay the staff a decent wage so tips aren't needed

 

We pay inclusive gratuities  just treat it as a part of the price that Cunard  let you pay after you've sailed. I know people also love giving their little envelopes but Gratuities are  an Anachronism. The modern expectation of 10% minimum to even 20% tips is a virus emanating in USA as a result of extremely low base wages and reliance on tips to provide a living wage.

 

 The best service is always in countries where tipping is not wanted and almost seen as an insult.  

[exlondoner]

While I agree with most of what you say, I'm not sure the last para is necessarily true. I usually have had excellent service in Italy, where they are generally quite keen on tips.

[Victoria2]

58 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

I just wish they'd get rid of gratuities or whatever they want to  call them , add it into the price, and pay staff a corresponding amount more. Pay the staff a decent wage so tips aren't needed

 

We pay inclusive gratuities  just treat it as a part of the price that Cunard  let you pay after you've sailed. I know people also love giving their little envelopes but Gratuities are  an Anachronism. The modern expectation of 10% minimum to even 20% tips is a virus emanating in USA as a result of extremely low base wages and reliance on tips to provide a living wage.

 

 The best service is always in countries where tipping is not wanted and almost seen as an insult.  

Yes, I delight in giving little envelopes as it's our way of saying a special thank you to individuals, as opposed to the hotel charges to the ships' crew in general,  but you'll never, ever see me passing them on. Never.

[navybankerteacher]

59 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

…

 

 The best service is always in countries where tipping is not wanted and almost seen as an insult.  

I have not observed that.  
 

 And, as a matter of fact, am inclined to think that incentive pay generally (regardless of the activity/industry) improves job performance while rewarding those who do make an effort.

[exlondoner]

I thought it was generally considered that, where only a small proportion got extra rewards, this led to the majority of the workforce being disaffected and grumpy.

[PORT ROYAL]

2 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I thought it was generally considered that, where only a small proportion got extra rewards, this led to the majority of the workforce being disaffected and grumpy.

It is known that Restaurant wait staff do share a portion their envelopes with the kitchen/support staff. 

[exlondoner]

17 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

It is known that Restaurant wait staff do share a portion their envelopes with the kitchen/support staff. 

 

I wasn't necessarily thinking of hospitality industries particularly, but more companies which reward the best performers with huge bonuses or organisations like the BBC.

[ExArkie]

35 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

It is known that Restaurant wait staff do share a portion their envelopes with the kitchen/support staff. 

Interesting that you mention that - I've been listening to conversations from our local NPR affiliate with the head of the 5th Street Group (a company that operates several restaurants in Charlotte, Charleston, and - I think it is open now - Nashville). They have started an initiative called "Tip the Kitchen" where patrons can specify a gratuity that will be directed to the back of house staff, separate from the one given the server. The group has increased wages to minimize the difference in front/back of the house earnings and has not yet raised their prices to cover it. Taking the additional out of their profits for now, hence the initiative to see if patrons will pitch in.

 

Turns out that, since 2011, there was actually a prohibition against the tipped staff (servers) sharing said tips with the staff working on salary (kitchen staff). This was changed in the 2018 federal budget, with revision of the Fair Labor Standards Act to allow tip sharing between servers and kitchen if all are paid (at least) minimum wage, i.e., the restaurant does not take a "tip credit" by reducing pay equivalent to the amount expected to be earned in tips.

 

I was certainly under the impression that tips in restaurants were shared with all staff, but this has not always been the case, apparently. Amazing the convolutions that occur when one expects patrons to subsidize the establishment's payroll separately from the price paid.

 

[majortom10]

I have no problems with staff been rewarded for good service as a bonus what annoys me is that we all know that throughout the cruise industry staff rely on gratuities because there pay is so poor from cruise companies and they make cruisers feel guilty by not paying or removing gratuities. Cruise companies do this for one reason only and that is to boost their overall profit by having customers pay staff wages but head of Carnival Arnold Donal in 2020 was paid over $13 million dollars and increase in $2million since 2019.

[Windsurfboy]

Incorporate this payment into prices and even put prices up as long it's ALL used to Pay the staff a decent wage so tips aren't needed 

[lissie]

8 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

I just wish they'd get rid of gratuities or whatever they want to  call them , add it into the price, and pay staff a corresponding amount more. Pay the staff a decent wage so tips aren't needed

 

We pay inclusive gratuities  just treat it as a part of the price that Cunard  let you pay after you've sailed. I know people also love giving their little envelopes but Gratuities are  an Anachronism. The modern expectation of 10% minimum to even 20% tips is a virus emanating in USA as a result of extremely low base wages and reliance on tips to provide a living wage.

 

 The best service is always in countries where tipping is not wanted and almost seen as an insult.  

I completely agree!  We don't tip in our culture and the whole thing seems horrible to us. Thank goodness we left tips on because we didn't even make it to the MDR on the final night (my partner was in the sick bay) - i cant even imagine trying to find staff and handing out dollar notes like some  historical old king distributing bread among  the poor!  Which doesn't even address the issue that given we were sailing out of Australia - where on earth would I find US$ cash LOL 

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Incorporate this payment into prices and even put prices up as long it's ALL used to Pay the staff a decent wage so tips aren't needed 

Should that “decent wage” be paid regardless of whether or not each member of the staff turned in a “decent” effort? 
 

Why not let the cruise companies (who you trust to provide shipboard transportation, entertainment and food) decide how to do it most efficiently?

Edited July 16, 2021 by navybankerteacher

[Victoria2]

5 hours ago, lissie said:

I completely agree!  We don't tip in our culture and the whole thing seems horrible to us. Thank goodness we left tips on because we didn't even make it to the MDR on the final night (my partner was in the sick bay) - i cant even imagine trying to find staff and handing out dollar notes like some  historical old king distributing bread among  the poor!  Which doesn't even address the issue that given we were sailing out of Australia - where on earth would I find US$ cash LOL 

There's no rule which says any thanks have to be in $US. In European waters, we often use ££ if the ship is based in Southampton, and I suppose those who cruise around Australia could use appropriate $$.

If $US are required, does Australia have currency exchange facilities?

[exlondoner]

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Should that “decent wage” be paid regardless of whether or not each member of the staff turned in a “decent” effort? 

 

Speaking for myself, I should be far more likely to provide a competent and efficient service, if I knew my employer valued me sufficiently to pay me well, rather than my income depending on the foibles of the customers.

[onlyslightlymad]

8 hours ago, lissie said:

I completely agree!  We don't tip in our culture and the whole thing seems horrible to us. Thank goodness we left tips on because we didn't even make it to the MDR on the final night (my partner was in the sick bay) - i cant even imagine trying to find staff and handing out dollar notes like some  historical old king distributing bread among  the poor!  Which doesn't even address the issue that given we were sailing out of Australia - where on earth would I find US$ cash LOL 

God yes, it is so awkward and unpleasant.  Just tell me how much it costs and i'll pay.