Restrictions in Italy

[LT Hambone]

8 hours ago, laurieb said:

And then being belittled by some because their efforts aren’t perfect.

 

I too applaud Azamara for all of their efforts - when you look at the whole cruise industry, Azamara is at the top of the list for how they are handling a restart during a pandemic. Kudos definitely go to Azamara!

 

My frustration is not that their efforts aren't perfect, it's just the general lack of consistent information across the board. Think about it - it's now late September and this is the first many of us are hearing about Italy's shore excursion requirement that's been in place for six+ months! In fact, the local tour companies we booked with didn't even know about this requirement!

 

Thanks to the awesome reports from @Huntingdon1701 and @uktog, I am very excited to be boarding in six weeks, knowing that once we get passed all of the "red tape" we will have an amazing and worry free cruise.

 

 

 

[uktog]

I am sure you will have a great time LT Hambone - my guess is Azamara said nothing up until now as they were hoping to persuade the Italian authorities to give them a waiver based on how well they have done in Greece.  They must have had some waiver in some ports in Greece as Celebrity guests were not allowed off except on excursions in some ports but Azamara were.  

Thinking about small local operators here, they would just think whatever the general restrictions are in the port would apply but they must have wondered why they were not getting bookings when the other ships were in.

 

I really hope you have a great cruise and who knows, they might manage to negotiate a last minute waiver in one port but idiots on other vessels as have been reported above won't be helping their cause.

[excitedofharpenden]

5 minutes ago, LT Hambone said:

 

 

 

My frustration is not that their efforts aren't perfect, it's just the general lack of consistent information across the board. Think about it - it's now late September and this is the first many of us are hearing about Italy's shore excursion requirement that's been in place for six+ months! In fact, the local tour companies we booked with didn't even know about this requirement!

 

 

 

 

 

It's understandable though.  The cruise industry has been shut for over a year and Azamara are only just back and haven't been to Italy yet.  They are hoping that things change, but Italy will do it the Italian way and this can be frustrating.  It's likely other countries could be the same.  We just will have to wait and see.  

 

You'll enjoy Quest I'm sure.  I can't wait.  With all that has gone on since I last had a foot on the ship what with lockdowns here and constant bad news it is going to be amazing to be back.  If it means I can't out on my own then it's the price to pay for at least some freedom.  And I will be staying well away from any negative Nellies, because they will just suck the life blood away!

 

Phil

[Lindy028]

Well said Phil, our cruise is not until March, if we could manage one before we most certainly would. Nothing and certainly no negative Nellies will take away our excitement to be back on board, like you we’ll avoid them like the plague. If we can go ashore independently great, if not, we’ll either take the ship’s tours or just enjoy a day onboard, which after the 18 months we’ve all endured will just be bliss. 

[LT Hambone]

2 hours ago, LT Hambone said:

My frustration is not that their efforts aren't perfect, it's just the general lack of consistent information across the board.

 

Here's a great example! Just received this from one of the tour companies I am working with -

 

In Italy there aren't any rules against cruises. Cruise are same as Plane and people can enter in Italy with one of these supports:
- green pass
- negative test in the previous 48 hours.
This is the unique thing you need to have if you want to visit Italy (by cruise, plane, ferries or car) if you are from the USA, Canada, South Africa, Australia, Europe.

What is important is you know the real rules. Cruise Company prefer you use their services
 

 

Left hand, meet right hand!

 

 

[uktog]

49 minutes ago, LT Hambone said:

 

Here's a great example! Just received this from one of the tour companies I am working with -

 

In Italy there aren't any rules against cruises. Cruise are same as Plane and people can enter in Italy with one of these supports:
- green pass
- negative test in the previous 48 hours.
This is the unique thing you need to have if you want to visit Italy (by cruise, plane, ferries or car) if you are from the USA, Canada, South Africa, Australia, Europe.

What is important is you know the real rules. Cruise Company prefer you use their services
 

 

Left hand, meet right hand!

 

 

 No it’s tour operator not knowing CDC rules for permission to sail orders and the Italian regulations Huntingdon shared and being very quick to rubbish the cruise lines sorry.  I don’t like operators that do this, they need to recognise the extent to which in normal times they get their customers from the very lines they are wrongly accusing 

[sleeg]

From the US Army:

 

https://www.army.mil/article/249384/cdc_vaccination_card_works_for_green_pass

 

Apparently, someone in authority in Italy thought it was a bad idea to bar vaccinated US citizens from spending money in Italy.  

 

As for the cruise industry and Covid; as Mark Twain said, "If you don’t like the weather...    ....just wait a few minutes."

 

[wrtmlt]

5 hours ago, LT Hambone said:

 

Here's a great example! Just received this from one of the tour companies I am working with -

 

In Italy there aren't any rules against cruises. Cruise are same as Plane and people can enter in Italy with one of these supports:
- green pass
- negative test in the previous 48 hours.
This is the unique thing you need to have if you want to visit Italy (by cruise, plane, ferries or car) if you are from the USA, Canada, South Africa, Australia, Europe.

What is important is you know the real rules. Cruise Company prefer you use their services
 

 

Left hand, meet right hand!

 

 

 or is it vendors not wanting people to cancel tours ?  

[Host Jazzbeau]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:40 PM, Kitekat said:

I do wonder how curated excursions are supposed to work when Azamara are offering ' [.... choose city name] on your own' where you are driven to said city and dropped off for the day...

Our experience on Elba and Sardinia is that the regulations are not uniformly enforced.  At Napoleon's villa on Elba they wanted to see our Covid certificates, but after about 2/3 of our tour group had shown them the guard turned his back and went into the office – "If it's right so far..." 

 

In the ports, they are very insistent that we leave in organized groups, but we were turned loose at the end of a walking tour and had no trouble getting back on the boat individually.  So the "... on your own" tours could easily work:  you leave the port as a group and return to the port as a group; since there are no restrictions on land tourists, when you wander around the city on your own nothing looks wrong.

[floridafolks]

21 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Our experience on Elba and Sardinia is that the regulations are not uniformly enforced.  At Napoleon's villa on Elba they wanted to see our Covid certificates, but after about 2/3 of our tour group had shown them the guard turned his back and went into the office – "If it's right so far..." 

 

In the ports, they are very insistent that we leave in organized groups, but we were turned loose at the end of a walking tour and had no trouble getting back on the boat individually.  So the "... on your own" tours could easily work:  you leave the port as a group and return to the port as a group; since there are no restrictions on land tourists, when you wander around the city on your own nothing looks wrong.

Just received word that our “on your own” Florence excursion from Livorno is cancelled - nov 21 Journey.   Azamara said they will try to organize a “guided” tour- “on your own” tour a no go!

[laurieb]

Our Taormina tour that includes a transfer to the central square has also been canceled 

[Huntingdon1701]

10 hours ago, wrtmlt said:

 or is it vendors not wanting people to cancel tours ?  

 

They've got to be desperate. This is their whole livelihood for most of them and they see the rest of the economy opening up but they're left with nothing. And at the same time the Government is withdrawing the financial support offered during the period because it's 'no longer needed'. I really feel for them. 

[Kitekat]

For those of us on B2B, I wonder how we will be curated on turnaround day... 

[excitedofharpenden]

26 minutes ago, Kitekat said:

For those of us on B2B, I wonder how we will be curated on turnaround day... 

Given what is going on just now I think your guess is as good as mine. It will vary from country to country. My experience has been it can also vary from place to place within a country. 

 

Phil 

[Kitekat]

I do hope that is true. We have booked lunch in Trieste on turnaround day... and we really fancy some seafood... We'll have to keep our fingers crossed (toes are crossed for other holidays to come)!

[uktog]

It is only a guess but I would expect turn around days to be under the same restrictions whatever they are as were applying in the country for the individual legs of the cruise.

 

For what its worth, excursions were offered for B2B in Greece and also in conjunction with an airport transfer for departing guests and all were cancelled due to lack of demand.  We were affected re our airport transfer and talking to the Land Discoveries people they advised at that point they had never had enough signed up to run any of these tours since restart.

 

With the new embarkation processes, new guests are not coming onboard until 1400 at the earliest but they have a nice buffet set up for back to back guests and any late departure guests (that scheme did run in Greece) in the Patio between 12 and 2 so if you do have to stay onboard they look after you well.

 

I expect you are not going to have the full answer until the back to back meeting you attend at the end of the first (and in your case second) cruise as the situation is changing so much.  I am sure as with everything else if they can get you off they will!

 

One thing that might limit that (and I saw people arguing elsewhere that you can easily set up things with ships escorts) is the availability of escorts as they may also be the same people who are cleared to be in the terminal to assist on embarkation.  I was told only a few people from crew are cleared to even go down the gangway and be in public spaces when other members of the public are allowed to be there, there is rigorous testing of these people and one escort on a tour seemed to imply as a result of being an escort there were restrictions on them interacting with some crew "below stairs".

 

It is so hard on the staff but at least by all the strict application of the Sail Order conditions, the ships are sailing and the crew are earning!  

[Dr H]

RE Trieste turn around day. I've got a private tour booked. Technically, Aza wants us off the boat. I'm planning on getting off the boat, since it is the end of my cruise, going to the caves, returning to the boat as a new customer, boarding pass in hand. If that changes, I can cancel the tour days before the Trieste arrival, but I cannot imagine how they can possibly enforce that! 

[Cruizer Diana]

22 minutes ago, Dr H said:

RE Trieste turn around day. I've got a private tour booked. Technically, Aza wants us off the boat. I'm planning on getting off the boat, since it is the end of my cruise, going to the caves, returning to the boat as a new customer, boarding pass in hand. If that changes, I can cancel the tour days before the Trieste arrival, but I cannot imagine how they can possibly enforce that! 

Excellent point, but I'm sure they will find a way to prevent it.

[Cruizer Diana]

On 9/24/2021 at 8:16 AM, uktog said:

 No it’s tour operator not knowing CDC rules for permission to sail orders and the Italian regulations Huntingdon shared and being very quick to rubbish the cruise lines sorry.  I don’t like operators that do this, they need to recognise the extent to which in normal times they get their customers from the very lines they are wrongly accusing 

I'm curious.

I understand that Italy may have regulations (certainly not easily visible to the public).

 

What does the CDC have to do with shore excursions in Italy? In which US ports does the CDC confine passengers to ship's tours? None that I am aware of---certainly not Alaska. Do they regulate shore excursions in foreign ports for ships not sailing from or to the US?

[uktog]

20 minutes ago, Cruizer Diana said:

I'm curious.

I understand that Italy may have regulations (certainly not easily visible to the public).

 

What does the CDC have to do with shore excursions in Italy? In which US ports does the CDC confine passengers to ship's tours? None that I am aware of---certainly not Alaska. Do they regulate shore excursions in foreign ports for ships not sailing from or to the US?

Azamara is sailing under Royal Caribbean protocols and are therefore likely to be subject to the CDC rules for sailing. They are an American company so probably have insurance considerations.  Its an absolute minefield and us amateurs cannot fully follow it all.  

 

Bottom line, if Azamara could have given guests freedom they would have, after all their research and no doubt lots and lots of trying to find ways to do so they have realised they cannot give guests freedom.

[uktog]

58 minutes ago, Cruizer Diana said:

Excellent point, but I'm sure they will find a way to prevent it.

You seem to think they would deliberately stop something.  If it is permitted it will happen, if it cannot it will not.  No one will invent a reason to prevent it or spend any time trying to work out a reason to do so - they have a lot of more important things to work out these days

[auger69]

Azamara is an American company following CDC rules for sailing but only has restrictions for Italy?

Do the CDC have specific protocols for Italy?  That doesn't make sense, sorry.

[uktog]

3 minutes ago, auger69 said:

Azamara is an American company following CDC rules for sailing but only has restrictions for Italy?

Do the CDC have specific protocols for Italy?  That doesn't make sense, sorry.

See post 45, Huntingdon has explained the Italian position there.

Others sailing under the RC protocols (Royal Caribbean and Celebrity) currently cannot undertake shore visits except on ships excursions.

[Cruizer Diana]

3 minutes ago, uktog said:

See post 45, Huntingdon has explained the Italian position there.

Others sailing under the RC protocols (Royal Caribbean and Celebrity) currently cannot undertake shore visits except on ships excursions.

While I'm extremely disappointed in this entire fiasco, all I can fairly expect--and I do EXPECT-- is:

• Complete transparency. I expect a company taking large sums of money and we in turn trusting their judgment and trusting that they will keep us safe, would at least tell us under what regulations they are operating. If they clearly and directly told us why they were requiring the bubble and pointed to the specific regulation and under whose authority they were operating, I would be much more satisfied. They have not told us that information. Also, since this has apparently been in effect for months, I would  expect this to be pointed out before final air and cruise payment, hotels booked. While being transparent may have been off-putting to many and resulted in fewer bookings, we would have been a bit more content and able to make our own choices. They waited until all plans were made and we were already invested so much that it is difficult to cancel. They could have said that they were working tirelessly to modify the arrangement. No one likes to be blind-sided. In fact, my "Taormina on your Own" was only cancelled yesterday afternoon. There was no "note" or caveat mentioned on that excursion---same with many excursions.
   
• Clarity in communication. If you wait until the bitter end to provide the rules by which we must abide, the rules should be clear. I don't think that is unreasonable to expect. While other parts of the website might deserve a "pass," rules that affect whether you will be allowed to board or explore independently should be clear, concise, and unambiguous.
  
  How can Azamara (RCCL) expect passengers to know what the rules are, two weeks before boarding, if one paragraph says you can not explore independently and another says you can explore with a ships excursion or independent tour? Which is it? This still has not been corrected and as we can see from conversation in this forum, there isn't even a consensus about whether the conflicting sections have been removed. I checked this morning--there have been no changes to the Protocols page. If you think so, it is because you did not very carefully read every word in every paragraph from top to bottom.
  
  The "Early Boarding" statement is still a mystery to most of us. What does that mean? They won't let us arrive to the port without a very current Covid test if we tested negative to get into Italy and intelligently didn't arrive the day of the cruise? What is the basis of this rule---or is it another statement missed by the editor? (I suspect they furloughed the editor, since that is not an "essential" job.) 

That is it. Just be transparent and concise. I expect it of any company I do business with and I expect it here--even if I don't like the message. Just don't spring rules on me at the last minute without pre-warning me and especially without stating the source of the rule. Azamara still has not told us the regulation requiring this. I'm not saying that they are being "dishonest," but I think we have a right to know the details. All we have now is what someone has dug up on the internet--not acceptable!

 

One more thing... Please don't use the "straw man" argument of the crew. None of us have indicated that we would harass the crew. That is not what this discussion is about--at least not from me. I do expect the corporation to be more forthcoming with us. Not doing so does harm the employees/crew. Employees are doing what they are told and I believe they are doing everything in their power to make our experience an excellent one. That is not the point. The employees are not being supported by the corporation. That is the bottom line regarding the employees/staff/crew.

[Grandma Cruising]

1 hour ago, Cruizer Diana said:

While I'm extremely disappointed in this entire fiasco, all I can fairly expect--and I do EXPECT-- is:

• Complete transparency. I expect a company taking large sums of money and we in turn trusting their judgment and trusting that they will keep us safe, would at least tell us under what regulations they are operating. If they clearly and directly told us why they were requiring the bubble and pointed to the specific regulation and under whose authority they were operating, I would be much more satisfied. They have not told us that information. Also, since this has apparently been in effect for months, I would  expect this to be pointed out before final air and cruise payment, hotels booked. While being transparent may have been off-putting to many and resulted in fewer bookings, we would have been a bit more content and able to make our own choices. They waited until all plans were made and we were already invested so much that it is difficult to cancel. They could have said that they were working tirelessly to modify the arrangement. No one likes to be blind-sided. In fact, my "Taormina on your Own" was only cancelled yesterday afternoon. There was no "note" or caveat mentioned on that excursion---same with many excursions.
   
• Clarity in communication. If you wait until the bitter end to provide the rules by which we must abide, the rules should be clear. I don't think that is unreasonable to expect. While other parts of the website might deserve a "pass," rules that affect whether you will be allowed to board or explore independently should be clear, concise, and unambiguous.
  
  How can Azamara (RCCL) expect passengers to know what the rules are, two weeks before boarding, if one paragraph says you can not explore independently and another says you can explore with a ships excursion or independent tour? Which is it? This still has not been corrected and as we can see from conversation in this forum, there isn't even a consensus about whether the conflicting sections have been removed. I checked this morning--there have been no changes to the Protocols page. If you think so, it is because you did not very carefully read every word in every paragraph from top to bottom.
  
  The "Early Boarding" statement is still a mystery to most of us. What does that mean? They won't let us arrive to the port without a very current Covid test if we tested negative to get into Italy and intelligently didn't arrive the day of the cruise? What is the basis of this rule---or is it another statement missed by the editor? (I suspect they furloughed the editor, since that is not an "essential" job.) 

That is it. Just be transparent and concise. I expect it of any company I do business with and I expect it here--even if I don't like the message. Just don't spring rules on me at the last minute without pre-warning me and especially without stating the source of the rule. Azamara still has not told us the regulation requiring this. I'm not saying that they are being "dishonest," but I think we have a right to know the details. All we have now is what someone has dug up on the internet--not acceptable!

 

One more thing... Please don't use the "straw man" argument of the crew. None of us have indicated that we would harass the crew. That is not what this discussion is about--at least not from me. I do expect the corporation to be more forthcoming with us. Not doing so does harm the employees/crew. Employees are doing what they are told and I believe they are doing everything in their power to make our experience an excellent one. That is not the point. The employees are not being supported by the corporation. That is the bottom line regarding the employees/staff/crew.

You seem to assume that Azamara know the situation in every country all the time and that this does no change. In fact the situation seems to be pretty fluid. Let’s face it, Azamara could have made things easy for themselves by simply saying that passengers can only go ashore on ships excursions whatever country they are in,  instead they are doing their best to allow people off on their own wherever possible. I think that deserves plaudits rather than complaints.