HAL Denali tundra wilderness tour

[Lalof]

Maybe this is a goofy question but.. has anyone done the tundra wilderness tour in Denali? It is included in our HAL land/sea package. It says the tour is 7-8 hours and you are provided a snack. Does the tour stop somewhere for people to have a meal or do people make do with a snack?

[dfilpus]

The Tundra Wilderness Tour bus picks you up at the hotel and follows the main road into Denali National Park to a specific turnaround point  and returns on the same road. The bus stops a couple of times for rest stops and scenic viewpoints and one visitor center. There is no food available at any of the stops on the tour. There is a box lunch for sale for the tour. You order the box lunch the day before and pick it up in the hotel lobby before you board the bus.

We ate at the breakfast buffet in the hotel that morning. The snack box was sufficient for a light lunch. For dinner, we went to the pizza restaurant across the road from the hotel.  We felt the lunch box to be expensive for what you got.

[rkacruiser]

This must be available only on the HAL affiliated tour.  I did this tour on my own and there was no snack box available.  None was needed by me.  Water?  Yes.  

 

There are amble options for dinner near the hotel.  The McKinley Chalet's Restaurant also provides a good meal.  

[donaldsc]

There are lots of hits on this on Google.  If you feel that you need more to eat than whatever is in your snack bag, have your hotel pack you a larger lunch to bring w you.  I am sure that they can do it for you.

 

DON

[AKStafford]

Even cheaper is the shuttle bus. Same road, same views.   https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/shuttles.htm

[geoherb]

We made do with the snack. We had the 2 p.m. tour and ate lunch of sandwiches from across the street before the tour. The snack consisted of reindeer sausage (similar to a Slim Jim), cheese, chips, crackers, cookie, and a bottle of water. The casual restaurant at the lodge was open for dinner when we got back.

[quack2]

Keep in mind that the road in Denali is currently open only to Mile 42 due to climate change-related ground movement causing the road to slide.  This has been an ongoing challenge to maintaining the road. 

 

https://www.ktoo.org/2021/09/24/work-on-55-million-bridge-over-slumping-part-of-denali-park-road-could-start-next-year/

Edited September 30, 2021 by quack2

[john2003]

I am wondering how thus will be reflected in the length and cost of the tours. The second half will remain closed for 2022. Perhaps longer?

[donaldsc]

49 minutes ago, john2003 said:

I am wondering how thus will be reflected in the length and cost of the tours. The second half will remain closed for 2022. Perhaps longer?

 

This from a report on a local TV station - "“If we are successful in getting funding, and Federal Highways can get the contracting lined up, we can actually start work in the end of summer in ’22,” she said."  What they are saying is that if everything goes w/o a problems, they will not start until the end of summer 2022.  What are the odds of everything going OK?  What are the odds of unforeseen problems.  

 

I wonder if the cruise lines are telling their bookings for CruiseTours in 2022 that they won't be having the Denali experience that they thought they would be having.    Not likely.

 

DON

[john2003]

Don,   can you help me with the timing? Seems to me that the other way to look at the end of summer is "close to the beginning of winter". Doesn't seem to me a good time to start construction unless it is an ice road!!!

[hapster85]

3 hours ago, john2003 said:

I am wondering how thus will be reflected in the length and cost of the tours. The second half will remain closed for 2022. Perhaps longer?

The article says they hope that winter refreezing will stabilize the area enough to be usable for at least a portion of next season. That remains to be seen, of course, but sounds hopeful for those who will be visiting earlier in the season.

[PETJAYZED]

20 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

This from a report on a local TV station - "“If we are successful in getting funding, and Federal Highways can get the contracting lined up, we can actually start work in the end of summer in ’22,” she said."  What they are saying is that if everything goes w/o a problems, they will not start until the end of summer 2022.  What are the odds of everything going OK?  What are the odds of unforeseen problems.  

 

I wonder if the cruise lines are telling their bookings for CruiseTours in 2022 that they won't be having the Denali experience that they thought they would be having.    Not likely.

 

DON

I can tell you that they are not telling us. We are 15 people booked for a Land  and sea with HAL and no mention of this.

[GTJ]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:27 PM, AKStafford said:

Even cheaper is the shuttle bus.

When I was at Denali the transit (shuttle) buses provided service without charge. I don't recall the year that fares started to be collected, but the effect seems to have been to make the transit buses more single-bus tour-like and less like an urban transit system where passengers had freely boarded and alighted enroute.

 

I'm not even sure how fares are tracked. For example, consider paying, and boarding a bus, for Toklat. Alight enroute outbound for a stopover, and then continue on the next outbound bus. But if that next outbound bus is destined for a further point, say, Eielson, Wonder Lake, or Kantishna, will at Toklat the driver put off the passengers with just Toklat tickets, directing them to find and board a different bus traveling inbound, back to the Denali bus depot? Will the driver demand a cash fare from passengers with Toklat tickets to continue onward? Or will Toklat ticket passengers just be allowed to continue outbound and without paying more at that point? Are tickets checked from passengers boarding buses enroute? And if passengers do not have tickets when boarding enroute (e.g., ticket lost, had hiked outbound and now seeking to ride bus inbound), are cash fares accepted, is the bus "free," or are such persons compelled to walk back to the Denali bus depot (how many miles it might be). The current system seems complicated to administer in all cases but for passengers taking a single bus round-trip as if it were a tour.

[don't-use-real-name]

21 hours ago, john2003 said:

Don,   can you help me with the timing? Seems to me that the other way to look at the end of summer is "close to the beginning of winter". Doesn't seem to me a good time to start construction unless it is an ice road!!!

The construction crews could work through the winter to reshape the road or a bypass

without interference of tourist and excursion traffic on the highway.

Bring in some heavy construction earth moving equipment to level the cliff face.

If California can re-do the Pacific Coast Highway at Big Sur in a few days certainly the Pretty

Rocks section can be taken in a leisure stride with no pressing time schedule until the dawn

of early next year.

With $$$$ never underestimate the engineering work of the USA worker !

Tunnels built

Bridges built

Dams constructed

Etc. etc. etc.

So what about moving mountains - hey !

[Northern Aurora]

22 hours ago, john2003 said:

Don,   can you help me with the timing? Seems to me that the other way to look at the end of summer is "close to the beginning of winter". Doesn't seem to me a good time to start construction unless it is an ice road!!!

 

 

While I am not Don I am someone who actually lives in interior Alaska.  I also don't know what "local TV station" he is referencing.  The National Park Service has recognized for some time that the Pretty Rocks section of the park road has ongoing problems and reapplying band-aid solutions would eventually no longer work.  There are funds in the Federal Highway Administration budget to deal with the Pretty Rocks area with construction initially scheduled in 2023.  But given what happened last summer that timeline needs to be accelerated.  The NPS is working with the FHA to speed up that project and hopefully begin construction in 2022.  The NPS has began their public input meetings and comment periods.  They are looking at building a bridge over the area and, given the amount of research which has been done in that section, have a rather good understanding of what they are confronting.  The bridge will not be the length of something like the Golden Gate Bridge, and I don't see this project taking something like five years.

[Northern Aurora]

15 minutes ago, don't-use-real-name said:

The construction crews could work through the winter to reshape the road or a bypass

without interference of tourist and excursion traffic on the highway.

Bring in some heavy construction earth moving equipment to level the cliff face.

If California can re-do the Pacific Coast Highway at Big Sur in a few days certainly the Pretty

Rocks section can be taken in a leisure stride with no pressing time schedule until the dawn

of early next year.

With $$$$ never underestimate the engineering work of the USA worker !

Tunnels built

Bridges built

Dams constructed

Etc. etc. etc.

So what about moving mountains - hey !

 

You are taking a very optimistic position.  I just don't see building that bridge during a winter in the middle of the Alaskan Range.

[Northern Aurora]

1 hour ago, GTJ said:

When I was at Denali the transit (shuttle) buses provided service without charge. I don't recall the year that fares started to be collected, but the effect seems to have been to make the transit buses more single-bus tour-like and less like an urban transit system where passengers had freely boarded and alighted enroute.

 

I'm not even sure how fares are tracked. For example, consider paying, and boarding a bus, for Toklat. Alight enroute outbound for a stopover, and then continue on the next outbound bus. But if that next outbound bus is destined for a further point, say, Eielson, Wonder Lake, or Kantishna, will at Toklat the driver put off the passengers with just Toklat tickets, directing them to find and board a different bus traveling inbound, back to the Denali bus depot? Will the driver demand a cash fare from passengers with Toklat tickets to continue onward? Or will Toklat ticket passengers just be allowed to continue outbound and without paying more at that point? Are tickets checked from passengers boarding buses enroute? And if passengers do not have tickets when boarding enroute (e.g., ticket lost, had hiked outbound and now seeking to ride bus inbound), are cash fares accepted, is the bus "free," or are such persons compelled to walk back to the Denali bus depot (how many miles it might be). The current system seems complicated to administer in all cases but for passengers taking a single bus round-trip as if it were a tour.

 

 

There is an excellent description of the shuttle bus system on the Denali National Park website.  The system doesn't work like an urban mass transit system.  The drivers of the non-narrated transit buses don't demand cash fares.  Many people get off for a hike or to explore a particular area, then just flag down one of the green transit buses and continue on.  

[donaldsc]

5 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

 

 

While I am not Don I am someone who actually lives in interior Alaska.  I also don't know what "local TV station" he is referencing.  The National Park Service has recognized for some time that the Pretty Rocks section of the park road has ongoing problems and reapplying band-aid solutions would eventually no longer work.  There are funds in the Federal Highway Administration budget to deal with the Pretty Rocks area with construction initially scheduled in 2023.  But given what happened last summer that timeline needs to be accelerated.  The NPS is working with the FHA to speed up that project and hopefully begin construction in 2022.  The NPS has began their public input meetings and comment periods.  They are looking at building a bridge over the area and, given the amount of research which has been done in that section, have a rather good understanding of what they are confronting.  The bridge will not be the length of something like the Golden Gate Bridge, and I don't see this project taking something like five years.

 

KTOO - a Juneau public TV station.  I guess that the station is not actually local.  However the quote was from a Denali planner and she says 2 to 3 seasons.  Here is a link to the full post - https://www.ktoo.org/2021/09/24/work-on-55-million-bridge-over-slumping-part-of-denali-park-road-could-start-next-year/

 

DON

[Northern Aurora]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

 

KTOO - a Juneau public TV station.  I guess that the station is not actually local.  However the quote was from a Denali planner and she says 2 to 3 seasons.  Here is a link to the full post - https://www.ktoo.org/2021/09/24/work-on-55-million-bridge-over-slumping-part-of-denali-park-road-could-start-next-year/

 

DON

 

I am familiar with KTOO radio as it is part of our statewide public radio network, but never pay any attention to TV.  While I am not an engineer my husband is a geologist.  The problematic area has been so well studied I don't see the work as taking 2 to 3 seasons.  While the NPS initially floated ideas about totally re-routing the road to the valley floor the current plan is to bridge the problem area.

[don't-use-real-name]

13 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

 

You are taking a very optimistic position.  I just don't see building that bridge during a winter in the middle of the Alaskan Range.

What better time -

the animals are in hibernation -

the mosquitos definitely dormant -

and the frozen tundra can serve as an ice-bridge albeit temporarily

 

All with a certain degree of  LOL ! 

[oaktreerb]

On 10/24/2021 at 2:38 PM, PETJAYZED said:

I can tell you that they are not telling us. We are 15 people booked for a Land  and sea with HAL and no mention of this.

The Tundra Wilderness Tour is offered by the national park system.  The other tour that HAL uses is the Natural History Tour which does not go far into the park but has a focus on the history of the park.  They will possibly use that tour or another variation offered by the national park system.  Time will tell.  After many land trips in Alaska I can tell you that they are always an adventure.  Fires, landslides, wildlife….anything can happen.  You will still have a good time.  Denali still has hikes, the dog kennels, ranger educational programs, a great bookstore, a visitor center.  We will be in Denali in late August and I’m looking forward to seeing what changes are happening for 2022.

[rkacruiser]

Working in that area to repair and construct "whatever" during Winter conditions?  Building a bridge in that area?  What environmental impact might that have?  How would that enhance the visual impact that area has on that stretch of road for tourists?

 

These are not well thought through ideas, in my opinion.  

[Northern Aurora]

3 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Working in that area to repair and construct "whatever" during Winter conditions?  Building a bridge in that area?  What environmental impact might that have?  How would that enhance the visual impact that area has on that stretch of road for tourists?

 

These are not well thought through ideas, in my opinion.  

 

While I haven't participated in any of the public comment sessions hosted by the National Park Service (I believe they are available on Zoom) it appears to me that the NPS is headed toward a plan to bridge the Pretty Rocks slide area.  Our local newspaper has published an artists rendering prepared by the NPS to provide insight into what the bridge would look like.  Their other option is to route the park road on the valley floor, and that would entire building numerous bridges over a braided river.  The Pretty Rocks area has been problematic for a number of years, and the NPS has recognized that their "band-aid" solution of constantly adding dump truck loads of gravel wasn't going to work forever.

[rkacruiser]

24 minutes ago, Northern Aurora said:

The Pretty Rocks area has been problematic for a number of years, and the NPS has recognized that their "band-aid" solution of constantly adding dump truck loads of gravel wasn't going to work forever.

 

I appreciate reading your post.  This area/road seems to be much like some of the infrastructure that needs a permanent resolution that I see where I live.  Apply a "band-aid" and "whenever the chickens come home to finally roost", it will be some other "officials" that must deal with it.

 

Maybe the best solution is to simply admit that when the road gets to that point where vehicles can no longer safely go, say so.  And, then, put a "period" at the end of this "issue".  

[don't-use-real-name]

PRETTY ROCKS -

Google Map Link:

 

Google Maps

 

Zoom map in-out

 

***

Polychrome Overlook
Viewpoint of multi-hued (Pretty Rocks) peaks & tundra*

*sliding perma-defrosting-tundra

 

? Bring in the Army Corps of Engineers and build a floating bridge

 

The excursion tour on the Denali Park road is awe inspiring -

Animals - 

Scenic views -

Changing weather conditions -

AND PERHAPS A 30% CHANCE TO VIEW THE MOUNTAIN !