Where to find fancy wine on S-class, now that Cellar Masters is disappearing?

[canderson]

16 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 I guess those of us looking for a nice wine experience can get lost.

By the glass, anyway, yes.

[MartinsCruise]

For ships without Cellar Masters, it would make sense to have one bar with a more extensive selection of wines by the glass.  It would also be nice to have a sommelier there but now I'm really dreaming.

[drakes2]

9 minutes ago, MartinsCruise said:

For ships without Cellar Masters, it would make sense to have one bar with a more extensive selection of wines by the glass.  It would also be nice to have a sommelier there but now I'm really dreaming.

In all honesty how much do most of the sommeliers know about wine. The last time I did the world wine tour in CM the sommelier told me he learned about wines from the guests. 😆 

[LGW59]

8 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

In all honesty how much do most of the sommeliers know about wine. The last time I did the world wine tour in CM the sommelier told me he learned about wines from the guests. 😆 

I’ve often wondered if they are really a sommelier by training or did they just work their way in F&B on board.

[markeb]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

I’ve often wondered if they are really a sommelier by training or did they just work their way in F&B on board.

I've never seen a pin. I'm pretty confident that they're not certified by either of the two major bodies. It's conceivable some of the staff are using the cruise ship to learn skills they hope to use in the hotel and restaurant industry ashore (and pursuing certification). The better ones were likely recruited because they had some talent and skill, possibly some experience, and were hired into the beverage service directly.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:45 AM, LGW59 said:

https://www.celebritycruises.com/things-to-do-onboard/eat-and-drink/bars-and-lounges/craft-social

Looks good....thanks for posting the link

[drakes2]

9 minutes ago, markeb said:

The better ones were likely recruited because they had some talent and skill, possibly some experience, and were hired into the beverage service directly.

Several years ago I believe I was on the reflection and exchanged a bottle of wine. One of the female sommeliers i think she was the head director knew a lot about wines. Forget what country in Europe she was from but was excellent at pairing food and wine.  

[markeb]

36 minutes ago, MartinsCruise said:

For ships without Cellar Masters, it would make sense to have one bar with a more extensive selection of wines by the glass.  It would also be nice to have a sommelier there but now I'm really dreaming.

 

The wine lover in me wants to agree, but I don't know how you do it.

 

The successful higher end wine bars I've seen are either the bar of a high end restaurant and their wine selection reflects the by the glass selection of the restaurant, or they're crazy expensive in crazy expensive places. And one I can think of that's a little of both, but the wine bar's list (curated by the same sommelier) doesn't appear anywhere near as extensive as the restaurant's list.

 

Sharing the wine list with the restaurant dramatically cuts the risk of product loss. Having a true wine bar, or an enhanced selection of higher end by the glass wines, means they've got to price the glasses at probably half the bottle price (ideally don't sell the same wine by the bottle), figuring a couple might order two glasses and you've covered your costs if no one else wants a glass of Chateau le pick a region to sip on not with a meal. The controlled dispensers they had in CM extend the life of an opened bottle, but not indefinitely, and unless they're going to a similar system, or a Coravin type system, they've got to turn the wine.

 

Draft beer in a keg probably has a 90 day shelf life. Another reason to go to the Craft Social concept; good inventory isn't as perishable.

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

Several years ago I believe I was on the reflection and exchanged a bottle of wine. One of the female sommeliers i think she was the head director knew a lot about wines. Forget what country in Europe she was from but was excellent at pairing food and wine.  

 

We had an amazing sommelier in Blu on Reflection on our first Celebrity cruise. Russian or Ukrainian if I remember correctly. One of the few who had the knowledge and the service aspects you see in a true sommelier on land.

 

The biggest trick for food pairings in a restaurant setting is knowing the menu, and hopefully having some influence on what wines are on the wine menu (that's hard on the cruise ship). And on shore, you have the same menu for 60-90 days (or more) and can match the wines to the food. On the ship, you have a 7-14 (or so) day rotating menu, but the same wines...

[MartinsCruise]

52 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

The wine lover in me wants to agree, but I don't know how you do it.

 

The successful higher end wine bars I've seen are either the bar of a high end restaurant and their wine selection reflects the by the glass selection of the restaurant, or they're crazy expensive in crazy expensive places. And one I can think of that's a little of both, but the wine bar's list (curated by the same sommelier) doesn't appear anywhere near as extensive as the restaurant's list.

 

Sharing the wine list with the restaurant dramatically cuts the risk of product loss. Having a true wine bar, or an enhanced selection of higher end by the glass wines, means they've got to price the glasses at probably half the bottle price (ideally don't sell the same wine by the bottle), figuring a couple might order two glasses and you've covered your costs if no one else wants a glass of Chateau le pick a region to sip on not with a meal. The controlled dispensers they had in CM extend the life of an opened bottle, but not indefinitely, and unless they're going to a similar system, or a Coravin type system, they've got to turn the wine.

 

Draft beer in a keg probably has a 90 day shelf life. Another reason to go to the Craft Social concept; good inventory isn't as perishable.

This makes sense but they could at least offer some higher end wines for those who have the premium package and want to try different wines.

[LGW59]

6 minutes ago, MartinsCruise said:

This makes sense but they could at least offer some higher end wines for those who have the premium package and want to try different wines.

And if we have the premium package and are willing to pay above the included cost for a really nice wine, I know I would 

[drakes2]

1 hour ago, markeb said:

We had an amazing sommelier in Blu on Reflection on our first Celebrity cruise. Russian or Ukrainian if I remember correctly

Must be one and the same. She was Ukrainian and also served in Blu on the Reflection. Think it was 2018 or 2019.

[2Long2NxtCrz]

Thank you for posting that link to the CS menu.  I do enjoy wine, but we love craft beer, too.  And that menu has some great ones on it.  Plus the bits of food will be awesome to have as I always prefer to make sure I'm eating a bit while imbibing.

 

When we were on the Equinox, we only went into CM for our meet & mingle.  It was far too quiet with nothing really going on there most of the time so I do think this makes sense for X because they don't want to waste any space.  Creating a space people want to be at is their goal.

[LGW59]

27 minutes ago, 2Long2NxtCrz said:

Thank you for posting that link to the CS menu.  I do enjoy wine, but we love craft beer, too.  And that menu has some great ones on it.  Plus the bits of food will be awesome to have as I always prefer to make sure I'm eating a bit while imbibing.

 

When we were on the Equinox, we only went into CM for our meet & mingle.  It was far too quiet with nothing really going on there most of the time so I do think this makes sense for X because they don't want to waste any space.  Creating a space people want to be at is their goal.

I’m very much looking forward to Craft Social in May

[zitsky]

2 hours ago, 2Long2NxtCrz said:

Thank you for posting that link to the CS menu.  I do enjoy wine, but we love craft beer, too.  And that menu has some great ones on it.  Plus the bits of food will be awesome to have as I always prefer to make sure I'm eating a bit while imbibing.

 

When we were on the Equinox, we only went into CM for our meet & mingle.  It was far too quiet with nothing really going on there most of the time so I do think this makes sense for X because they don't want to waste any space.  Creating a space people want to be at is their goal.

 

Would you mind sharing what those "great ones" are?  I wasn't impressed with the list I saw.

[markeb]

3 hours ago, MartinsCruise said:

This makes sense but they could at least offer some higher end wines for those who have the premium package and want to try different wines.

 

3 hours ago, LGW59 said:

And if we have the premium package and are willing to pay above the included cost for a really nice wine, I know I would 

 

It's an interesting question, but I really think they'd have to offer wines above the premium package for it to work. "Maybe" a couple that are between classic and premium, but mostly over premium. But you can't offer Opus One by the glass (definitely without a dispenser, and they've taken those out) for instance, without risking significant product loss, and there's only so much Opus One in the world at any time. And it would almost have to be $150/glass! (If anyone's seen it by the glass, feel free to contradict me; I'm making some assumptions here and have never seen it by the glass!)

 

Assuming that 90%+ have at least a classic package, there's no return to the cruise line for wines less than the classic package. And there's no real return for wines on the premium package. Between the packages you could potentially get some return for those on the classic package (which is the AI package, I believe), but your real return would be wines over the premium package, if you can attract more or less serious wine drinkers. Say $5-15 over the package price. Which from all indications Cellar Masters never really did. The wines in the dispensers were all full price (at least when we were on board), and the CM space really didn't have any other income streams to the Celebrity with a package.

 

I'm curious as to how many of the beers at Craft Social are within the premium package. And I looked at the menu again and the good ones are by the bottle, not on tap. If Celebrity wants a return on investment, they've got to sell something over the package price, otherwise they've invested in a space where the return is revenue neutral. Which isn't good...

[markeb]

6 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Would you mind sharing what those "great ones" are?  I wasn't impressed with the list I saw.

 

Let's start at the top...

 

Rogue XS Old Crustacean--One I've never actually even seen. 10.75% ABV, 105 IBU. 

Intense, robust, malty and dark. The cognac of beers. This is based on the recipe for the beer that won John Maier Homebrewer of the Year back in 1988 and we're still making it today. "Oregon's strongest. This is an unforgettable beer, enough to set lupulin addicts' hearts pounding in a moment of joy," according to Fred Eckhart.

 

It's a crazy stupid barley wine and essentially an IPA at 105 IBU. It sounds absolutely crazy, and I now need to track down a bottle.

 

Rogue Chocolate Stout--Three Golds at the World Beer Championships, Gold at the Barcelona Beer Challenge, and the 2014 World's Best Sweet/Milk Stout at the World beer Awards. And Rogue is an amazing brewery.

 

Chimay Grand Reserve Blue, Chimay Premiere Rouge, and Delirium Tremens--There are other Belgians on the list. These are just three of the best. Chimay Blue and Delirium Tremens are both amazing Trappist style ales (actually prefer Delirium Nocturnum, but Tremens is more common). They largely define the high alcohol dark Trappist Belgian Ales. Best served on tap in Brussels.

 

Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA--One of the best IPAs on the market, IMHO. 9 % ABV, 90 IBU. The 120 is beyond spectacular, but it's a limited release, $10+ per bottle (US retail; forget cruise ship pricing) and really has to be reserved for a special occasion. You can age the 120. Butt the 90 Minute is one of the best drinkable IPAs on the market (along with Rogue and Stone; Dogfish isn't overly East Coast and pretty easy to non-existent on the grapefruit).

 

There are others on the list. And there's an entire separate list of rare beers that are off the charts crazy. Mostly Belgians, with one Italian. Things I've only dreamed of tasting. It's an amazing menu, if available.

 

If none of that means anything to you, please enjoy your Hoegaarden or Stella...

[neverlaysup]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:27 AM, drakes2 said:

I do the same  i have a small wine cellar in my home with some fabulous wines which I've purchased at 20 - 30 off so works out to be a great bargain.  Although I'll be upgrading to the PBP for my November cruise it won't be for the wine choices.

Same here, I upgrade the drink package because I will probably break even but I won't ever have to sign anything. As for the wine, I would rather bring a couple of expensive bottles from home and have them at my nice dinners instead of paying 300-500 per bottle on the cruise for the same thing.

[markeb]

3 hours ago, drakes2 said:

Must be one and the same. She was Ukrainian and also served in Blu on the Reflection. Think it was 2018 or 2019.

 

Probably the same. Tall, attractive, very good at her job, and a joy to talk to. She would have done well at a Michelin starred restaurant in Europe. And hopefully that's where she is, making a lot more money!

[zitsky]

9 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Let's start at the top...

 

Rogue XS Old Crustacean--One I've never actually even seen. 10.75% ABV, 105 IBU. 

Intense, robust, malty and dark. The cognac of beers. This is based on the recipe for the beer that won John Maier Homebrewer of the Year back in 1988 and we're still making it today. "Oregon's strongest. This is an unforgettable beer, enough to set lupulin addicts' hearts pounding in a moment of joy," according to Fred Eckhart.

 

It's a crazy stupid barley wine and essentially an IPA at 105 IBU. It sounds absolutely crazy, and I now need to track down a bottle.

 

Rogue Chocolate Stout--Three Golds at the World Beer Championships, Gold at the Barcelona Beer Challenge, and the 2014 World's Best Sweet/Milk Stout at the World beer Awards. And Rogue is an amazing brewery.

 

Chimay Grand Reserve Blue, Chimay Premiere Rouge, and Delirium Tremens--There are other Belgians on the list. These are just three of the best. Chimay Blue and Delirium Tremens are both amazing Trappist style ales (actually prefer Delirium Nocturnum, but Tremens is more common). They largely define the high alcohol dark Trappist Belgian Ales. Best served on tap in Brussels.

 

Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA--One of the best IPAs on the market, IMHO. 9 % ABV, 90 IBU. The 120 is beyond spectacular, but it's a limited release, $10+ per bottle (US retail; forget cruise ship pricing) and really has to be reserved for a special occasion. You can age the 120. Butt the 90 Minute is one of the best drinkable IPAs on the market (along with Rogue and Stone; Dogfish isn't overly East Coast and pretty easy to non-existent on the grapefruit).

 

There are others on the list. And there's an entire separate list of rare beers that are off the charts crazy. Mostly Belgians, with one Italian. Things I've only dreamed of tasting. It's an amazing menu, if available.

 

If none of that means anything to you, please enjoy your Hoegaarden or Stella...

 

I don't think I've had those last two beers but I know what Stella Artois is.

 

Which beer is good to try first if I have not really had a Belgian beer and am not sure if I would like them?

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I’ve often wondered if they are really a sommelier by training or did they just work their way in F&B on board.

To answer your question- when you see the sommelier the next morning cleaning dishes off tables in the Oceanview Cafe, as I have in the past, I tend to think they are not really a trained sommelier.☺️

[drakes2]

13 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

To answer your question- when you see the sommelier the next morning cleaning dishes off tables in the Oceanview Cafe, as I have in the past, I tend to think they are not really a trained sommelier.☺️

Would anyone know the price of a Baileys over the classic package. I enjoy having one the odd night. Not interested in the wine selections as I bring my own so just wondering if I should upgrade to CBP or pay the difference. I also like San Pellegrino with my meals. Thanks for all contributions. 

[TeeRick]

6 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

Would anyone know the price of a Baileys over the classic package. I enjoy having one the odd night. Not interested in the wine selections as I bring my own so just wondering if I should upgrade to CBP or pay the difference. I also like San Pellegrino with my meals. Thanks for all contributions. 

Probably a few dollars upcharge at most - but are you sure it is not in the Classic?

[drakes2]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Probably a few dollars upcharge at most - but are you sure it is not in the Classic?

No baileys is not in the CBP

 

[zitsky]

25 minutes ago, drakes2 said:

No baileys is not in the CBP

 

 

@drakes2 i bought that Sonoma Cutrer chardonnay you recommended.  Haven't tried it yet.