"ALWAYS INCLUDED" PERHAPS CELEBRITY SHOULD RETHINK THIS ONE

[DCPIV]

59 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

There are people who can help you figure this all out.  They are called travel agents.

 

If Celebrity's online booking prices process requires a TA to figure it out, then the problem is all the more severe and defeats the purpose of the website with regard to both Celebrity and its customers. The fact that a TA can help does not excuse Celebrity. 

 

12 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Ok so let's say not using a TA.  Will X give you *any* kind of documentation before you make a deposit?

 

As far as I know, the only way to do that is to do a courtesy hold (if you know the secret handshake to do so) and then call to request it. Again, that defeats the purpose. 

[Ereggae]

I am very meticulous when I book online.  I double-check, triple-check and until it is fixed to my liking I keep bothering them.  Case in point, I recently booked a Sky Suite, but only because of the discounts, but the perks I am entitled to were not individually listed, all it said was Retreat.  The last thing I need is to go on the ship and being told I have nothing.  I called several times until each item was itemized on the invoice and had them resend it.  Another problem was that each time I logged in the price of my cruise changed.  When they checked the system, a couple items from the itemized list was missing.  It is now all good and I have everything in writing and will definitely take that invoice with me.  I personally like the all included option.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ereggae

[zitsky]

28 minutes ago, DCPIV said:

 

If Celebrity's online booking prices process requires a TA to figure it out, then the problem is all the more severe and defeats the purpose of the website with regard to both Celebrity and its customers. The fact that a TA can help does not excuse Celebrity. 

 

 

As far as I know, the only way to do that is to do a courtesy hold (if you know the secret handshake to do so) and then call to request it. Again, that defeats the purpose. 

 

@DCPIV I have a travel agent because she can sometimes get a better price *AND* because I don't want to sit on the phone with Celebrity for several hours over the course of my planning.

 

It's like anything else.  Could I fix my own car?  Maybe and I've tried in the past.  But it's not something I want to do now.  Same with planning trips.  I decide where to go and when and do some basic planning.  Then I turn it over to a TA to work out the details.

 

@Ereggae seems to have figured this out pretty well.  Maybe just a few phone calls and everything is documented.

[Spif Barwunkel]

46 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

I prefer to explore options including booking on the website and through an OTA. When I did this last week I discovered savings via a TA but then I discovered I qualified for an even better casino rate. I wouldn’t have found any of this out if I didn’t do my homework. But if you don’t care about the best prices and lowest costs for this size purchase then just buy the cruise you see and enjoy your vacation. 

We do this as well. I don't believe this is the homework folks are talking about. Rather, it is where the numbers fall once you determine how you'll proceed. For some, too many whys and wherefores to navigate. Not saying you won't eventually get to the number that gets you what you want, but there are times when that is an aggravating process. I don't think it should be. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Spif Barwunkel

[Spif Barwunkel]

22 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

@DCPIV I have a travel agent because she can sometimes get a better price *AND* because I don't want to sit on the phone with Celebrity for several hours over the course of my planning.

 

It's like anything else.  Could I fix my own car?  Maybe and I've tried in the past.  But it's not something I want to do now.  Same with planning trips.  I decide where to go and when and do some basic planning.  Then I turn it over to a TA to work out the details.

 

@Ereggae seems to have figured this out pretty well.  Maybe just a few phone calls and everything is documented.

Perfect explanation, Z, and it works for you. No hassle, no frustration. That's as it should be. Ereggae in post #77 does it all him/her self. However one plans and executes that plan, what matters is a smooth, seamless process from start to finish. Feels good when that happens.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Spif Barwunkel

[zitsky]

9 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Perfect explanation, Z, and it works for you. No hassle, no frustration. That's as it should be.  

 

To be honest, it's not painless dealing with a TA.  I had trouble explaining "Drinks & More" to her.  And for a brief time the TA company assigned me a different TA who wasn't very responsive.  But the "original" TA took over so it was alright.

Edited October 29, 2021 by zitsky

[DCPIV]

17 minutes ago, zitsky said:

It's like anything else.  Could I fix my own car?  Maybe and I've tried in the past.  But it's not something I want to do now.  Same with planning trips.  I decide where to go and when and do some basic planning.  Then I turn it over to a TA to work out the details.

 

Alright. Let's go with that analogy. Celebrity implemented an online booking process and encourages us to use it rather than go to a travel agent. If your car manufacturer sold a "fix your car" kit and led you to believe you could use it without needed a mechanic, and you bought the thing.  How would you feel if someone told you "yeah, you really need a mechanic to use that"?

 

If you want to use a TA, go bananas. That's not the point of the discussion. 

[Morecruises1]

After the final payment due time a few days ago and my cruise being paid in full, today I got a new invoice to pay for my tips on my cruise even though I had "Retreat NRD" added to my cruise at considerable expense.  So now I owe tips or I am in danger of them cancelling my cruise.  This is nuts!

[Morecruises1]

Just now, Morecruises1 said:

After the final payment due time a few days ago and my cruise being paid in full, today I got a new invoice to pay for my tips on my cruise even though I had "Retreat NRD" added to my cruise at considerable expense days ago.  So now I owe tips or I am in danger of them cancelling my cruise.  This is nuts!

 

[FlorenceItaly]

12 minutes ago, Morecruises1 said:

After the final payment due time a few days ago and my cruise being paid in full, today I got a new invoice to pay for my tips on my cruise even though I had "Retreat NRD" added to my cruise at considerable expense.  So now I owe tips or I am in danger of them cancelling my cruise.  This is nuts!

When you go into your account online under Manage Reservation and then Reservation Details what does it show when you click on Gratuities?  I have to believe this is a mistake on IT's part that you owe gratuities as this is all included in your Retreat perks that you paid for earlier in the week.  Unfortunately, I think you are going to have to call for your own peace of mind.

Edited October 29, 2021 by FlorenceItaly

[zitsky]

38 minutes ago, DCPIV said:

 

Alright. Let's go with that analogy. Celebrity implemented an online booking process and encourages us to use it rather than go to a travel agent. If your car manufacturer sold a "fix your car" kit and led you to believe you could use it without needed a mechanic, and you bought the thing.  How would you feel if someone told you "yeah, you really need a mechanic to use that"?

 

If you want to use a TA, go bananas. That's not the point of the discussion. 

 

When I got a flat recently I called AAA and they sent someone.  Could I have changed it myself, maybe but I don't want to.

 

So you want to deal directly with Celebrity.  Go right ahead.  Some people say they got an answer in 5 minutes.  Some people say it took an hour or more.  Your choice.  I choose not to spend my whole day on the phone.

 

 

[Morecruises1]

1 minute ago, FlorenceItaly said:

When you go into your account online under Manage Reservation and then Reservation Details what does it show when you click on Gratuities?  I have to believe this is a mistake on IT's part that you owe gratuities as this is all included in your Retreat perks that you paid for earlier in the week.  Unfortunately, I think you are going to have to call for your own piece of mind.

It had the amount of gratuities listed with a link to "pay now".  When you click and check the box 'no thanks' it says to approve updated cruise fare and raises the price of the whole cruise by some $2000 as it takes off the promotions..  

[zitsky]

Just now, Morecruises1 said:

It had the amount of gratuities listed with a link to "pay now".  When you click and check the box 'no thanks' it says to approve updated cruise fare and raises the price of the whole cruise by some $2000 as it takes off the promotions..  

 

Don't panic.  Celebrity's website is known to have problems.  Don't take anything at face value.  I would call in, even if it takes a while, and get them to fix this.

[FlorenceItaly]

3 minutes ago, Morecruises1 said:

It had the amount of gratuities listed with a link to "pay now".  When you click and check the box 'no thanks' it says to approve updated cruise fare and raises the price of the whole cruise by some $2000 as it takes off the promotions..  

It sounds like you are going to have to call, unfortunately.  Mine has a check mark which I "think" means Celebrity has paid it.  It has only been a few days since I booked so I am giving it longer before I call for an updated booking confirmation.

[4774Papa]

5 hours ago, mfs2k said:

I don't think that's true.  Most people figure it out eventually and choose to go the AI route or the "Simply sail" route. Those who have post-booking regret, didn't do their homework. 

Of course, I have no way of conducting a scientific poll, however we have lots of cruise friends that we have cruised with and a fair number are not happy with the current pricing scheme.  Also, from the number of posts on the subject, that seems to indicate significant unhappiness.

Further, Simply sail has NEVER been an option on any cruise that I have checked in the last year.

[jg51]

6 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Significant number..Got a link? Other than a few cantankerous posters here? 

.

It's so sad when some people -- who are incapable of refuting others through logical argumentation -- find it necessary to stoop to using insults (in this case, a disrespectful adjective ["cantankerous"]) to try to silence their opponents.

 

Another misleading adjective used above is "few."  There are far more than a "few" who are steamed about Celebrity's (sometimes) shoddy way of doing business (and even shoddier Internet site).  If all of the cruising public were to learn what we (here at CC) know about "Always Included" [sic] -- and especially about the "Loyalty NRD" fiasco, there would be "hell to pay" for "X." 

 

If someone here has the impression that there are (or would be) only a "few" disgruntled customers, that is only because the people frequenting this board are not truly representative of the cruising public "at large."  Some folks here may go into denial about we are about to say, but ... the fact is that it is very obvious that a HUGE percentage of the people that post here regularly are EXTREMELY wealthy.  [The percentage of people here that book suites is absolutely gigantic in comparison to the percentage of staterooms that are suites.] --

 

The great financial wealth that is held by what is probably the majority of regular CC posters helps to explain why there are so many "I-don't-mind-AI-in-the-least" comments!  So many people here can afford not to even care about saving some money (by avoiding AI, which they don't need)! 

 

Now, lest we [jg51] get accused of envying the rich, we must immediately object that no such thing is involved in our thoughts.  All our lives, we have totally rejected putting down wealthy people,  envying their success, etc..  We have simply been mentioning the facts about them (and their predominance here at CC) in order to make our point -- namely, that the regularly-posting CC members here do not accurately represent the cruising public at large. 

 

We must reiterate: If the entire cruising public knew all the facts, they would want "X" to return to the pre-AI way of booking and charging -- namely, "freedom of choice."  THEN there would be no more misuse of the word, "few" (much less "cantankerous").

.

[LGW59]

5 minutes ago, jg51 said:

.

It's so sad when some people -- who are incapable of refuting others through logical argumentation -- find it necessary to stoop to using insults (in this case, a disrespectful adjective ["cantankerous"]) to try to silence their opponents.

 

Another misleading adjective used above is "few."  There are far more than a "few" who are steamed about Celebrity's (sometimes) shoddy way of doing business (and even shoddier Internet site).  If all of the cruising public were to learn what we (here at CC) know about "Always Included" [sic] -- and especially about the "Loyalty NRD" fiasco, there would be "hell to pay" for "X." 

 

If someone here has the impression that there are (or would be) only a "few" disgruntled customers, that is only because the people frequenting this board are not truly representative of the cruising public "at large."  Some folks here may go into denial about we are about to say, but ... the fact is that it is very obvious that a HUGE percentage of the people that post here regularly are EXTREMELY wealthy.  [The percentage of people here that book suites is absolutely gigantic in comparison to the percentage of staterooms that are suites.] --

 

The great financial wealth that is held by what is probably the majority of regular CC posters helps to explain why there are so many "I-don't-mind-AI-in-the-least" comments!  So many people here can afford not to even care about saving some money (by avoiding AI, which they don't need)! 

 

Now, lest we [jg51] get accused of envying the rich, we must immediately object that no such thing is involved in our thoughts.  All our lives, we have totally rejected putting down wealthy people,  envying their success, etc..  We have simply been mentioning the facts about them (and their predominance here at CC) in order to make our point -- namely, that the regularly-posting CC members here do not accurately represent the cruising public at large. 

 

We must reiterate: If the entire cruising public knew all the facts, they would want "X" to return to the pre-AI way of booking and charging -- namely, "freedom of choice."  THEN there would be no more misuse of the word, "few" (much less "cantankerous").

.

There truly are no words for this.  

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, jg51 said:

.

It's so sad when some people -- who are incapable of refuting others through logical argumentation -- find it necessary to stoop to using insults (in this case, a disrespectful adjective ["cantankerous"]) to try to silence their opponents.

 

Another misleading adjective used above is "few."  There are far more than a "few" who are steamed about Celebrity's (sometimes) shoddy way of doing business (and even shoddier Internet site).  If all of the cruising public were to learn what we (here at CC) know about "Always Included" [sic] -- and especially about the "Loyalty NRD" fiasco, there would be "hell to pay" for "X." 

 

If someone here has the impression that there are (or would be) only a "few" disgruntled customers, that is only because the people frequenting this board are not truly representative of the cruising public "at large."  Some folks here may go into denial about we are about to say, but ... the fact is that it is very obvious that a HUGE percentage of the people that post here regularly are EXTREMELY wealthy.  [The percentage of people here that book suites is absolutely gigantic in comparison to the percentage of staterooms that are suites.] --

 

The great financial wealth that is held by what is probably the majority of regular CC posters helps to explain why there are so many "I-don't-mind-AI-in-the-least" comments!  So many people here can afford not to even care about saving some money (by avoiding AI, which they don't need)! 

 

Now, lest we [jg51] get accused of envying the rich, we must immediately object that no such thing is involved in our thoughts.  All our lives, we have totally rejected putting down wealthy people,  envying their success, etc..  We have simply been mentioning the facts about them (and their predominance here at CC) in order to make our point -- namely, that the regularly-posting CC members here do not accurately represent the cruising public at large. 

 

We must reiterate: If the entire cruising public knew all the facts, they would want "X" to return to the pre-AI way of booking and charging -- namely, "freedom of choice."  THEN there would be no more misuse of the word, "few" (much less "cantankerous").

.

 

Ok good points about Celebrity and their bad computer systems.

 

Don't equate suites with wealth.  Plenty of millionaires sail in veranda cabins.  Probably that guy next door is one of them.

[ChucktownSteve]

My upcoming Celebrity cruise was booked pre-covid and is the result of a lift and shift in an S1. Since the AI was instituted, the recent pricing for my category had about doubled. My suite comes with OBC, WiFi, grats and premium liquor.   I wanted to try an E class ship.

 

However since mid last year I have booked two Azamara cruises and three Regent cruises through 5/2023.  I guess I am one of the "few" who doesn't like the games, phony promotions with hidden increased pricing or death by a thousand cuts Celebrity has been playing over the past few years...even pre-covid.  So they caused me to look at alternative lines where I found what I considered a good value proposition.

 

I may book Celebrity after the currently booked cruises.  However I'd need to see the quality and pricing value match what they claim to be a premium line.  I still consider Celebrity to be a mass market line

 

Tricking people to book suites at a good rate but without the grats, wifi and premium liquor is not a line I trust.  I don't want to have to spend hours trying to correct what others have experienced in this thread.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[Sabbycat]

On 10/28/2021 at 11:15 AM, jagoffee said:

As I understand Celebrity is running a special currently that allows you to book with a NRD, no perks(AI) and a 20% discount and allows you to pick a cabin.  The sounds what you and others are requesting.

You can use your CC benefits without any dilution.  Did you or others book under this offer?  Expires in November 1, so you better hurry.

NRD does not mean that perks are not included. I fell for this, and called celebrity to verify my booking in a suite included the retreat since it showed RetreatNRD and many on these boards indicated that the NRD means not included. It does not mean that. I booked with the 20% discount, full suite experience. So be careful what you write on here. I think it comes down to if the invoice indicates that the perks are included. 

[DCPIV]

7 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

When I got a flat recently I called AAA and they sent someone.  Could I have changed it myself, maybe but I don't want to.

 

So you want to deal directly with Celebrity.  Go right ahead.  Some people say they got an answer in 5 minutes.  Some people say it took an hour or more.  Your choice.  I choose not to spend my whole day on the phone.

 

 

 

Huh? 

[jagoffee]

1 hour ago, Sabbycat said:

NRD does not mean that perks are not included. I fell for this, and called celebrity to verify my booking in a suite included the retreat since it showed RetreatNRD and many on these boards indicated that the NRD means not included. It does not mean that. I booked with the 20% discount, full suite experience. So be careful what you write on here. I think it comes down to if the invoice indicates that the perks are included. 

I certain dis not mean to imply that NRD meant no perks.  I was referencing the cruises available under the special Loyalty discount (no AI) that did not include AI with an assigned cabin.  It seems to be exactly what some people were asking Celebrity to implement.  Sorry that I was not clear.

[canderson]

9 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

To be honest, it's not painless dealing with a TA.  I had trouble explaining "Drinks & More" to her.  And for a brief time the TA company assigned me a different TA who wasn't very responsive.  But the "original" TA took over so it was alright.

One key factor in selecting a TA for a particular cruise is choosing not just a good one, but one with a strong enough focus on the line you plan to sail to truly know the ins and outs that require experience with the line.  If you're having to explain the details of a line's programs to a TA, it's the wrong TA for that cruise.  Move on.

 

Of course, the problem is finding one with the right skill set, or ever getting one to admit in advance that they don't.  It's a minefield, and one that a site like Cruise Critic is almost useless in navigating.

 

What works, if the cruiser already has substantial experience with a line, is to prepare a short list of two or three 'test questions' designed to weed out those with insufficient experience to deal with the edge cases and answer, or know who to ask about, a question about current policy or programs that won't be answered easily by some FAQ. 

 

As many here have discovered, especially in this very fluid pricing and policy environment, and even more than the normal number of miscues in messaging by corporate and by IT, the devil really can be in the details.

 

As part of a CC group that specialized in cruising, often together, in certain Celebrity cabin types and itineraries, we were fortunate to have been introduced to a TA who understood those needs from experience.  The introduction, even back then, was necessarily oblique here on CC, but we've certainly been grateful for it.  I suspect that's why the PM feature is disabled here.  

 

All I can suggest is to come up with your own vetting method, and don't be afraid to use it!  Not every TA can possibly be expected to be familiar with all of the nuances of every line, especially now.

 

 

 

 

[HMR74]

two things to add:

Currently there are some issues that X is having with the add on things like excursions and spa etc.

I have received 3 e mails that I have been cancelled from 3 excurions (but my wife is still booked)  and one specialty dinner.  The credits given on cancellation were a fraction of the cost.

 

I understand the problems have not yet been fixed (a limited number of sailngs and a limited number of customers) and mine was fixed by "fudging" the reservations and my OBC back to where it should  have been.

 

However, I wil be checking closely till even the night before the sailing. Which should be easy as we are on a B2b with the front end  just before the IT error prone second cruise.

 

On the AI--aside from booking in Retreat, I like the idea because we are on vacation and the less complexity including a long charge list for drinks allows us to not think and just order what we like. Do not have to drive, or evwen reallly think. I would be certain that money wise we come up a little short but the offset is the ease for us as well as really low stress levels. Thats worth a nice intangible amount.

 

Then too, I'll use the excelerate internet every day especially on a Transatlantic or Pacific and even in Europe  or Asia--especially  there as if the  US is 7-15 hours different than official ship time, late nite I usually stay up just because I am a late night person and surf-off holiday schedule and X ships seem to close most things down before midnight. The internet phone helps too, just the comfort that you can make calls and not just to the grandkids.

 

Only problem is how do you use so much OBC on a Transatlantic in retreat?

Not to worry, its a vacation,  it is what it is. 

 

Oceana was slightly more than our retreat package. Only problem was its a month earlier in the spring and taking the north route, and now there is a problem in that Oceana cannot get into Venice , but ports at Trieste.

Actually all of Europe is going to make things difficult getting into  what with green cards and heavy restrictions, We have a few months yet.

 

All things being equal, our problems are not so bad.

 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say this again — Princess got this concept right and Celebrity got it wrong. 
 

Princess has a simple two tier pricing structure for all room categories and all sailings - Princess Plus and Princess Saver. Princess Plus is $40pp/day more than Saver Fares.  Travel Agency group rates automatically include Princess Plus. All Princess National Promotions are available with both fare types. If a solo traveler wants Princess Plus they pay the Solo Princess Saver rate then just $40/day x 1 guest to add on Plus. Most Private Sale/Resident/etc fares offer both Plus and Savers options. If they don’t it clearly states it when booking (Flash flares and Drop & Go deals for example). Deposits are generally fully refundable up to final payment. Princess only have 1 beverage package and 1 internet package, so no need for multiple price tiers in the Princess Plus Program.  Invoicing clearly shows the included perks immediately. 
 

Celebrity has really mucked it up by offering too many tiers (Simply Sail, Always Included, Elevate, Indulge) that don’t combine with all room types. Refundable vs Non Refundable Deposit (NRD) fares with almost all tier/room types.  Resident, Senior, Past Guest and Military discounts may or may not combine with Simply Sail or Always Included tiers. Some national offers combine with all fare types and deposit types, some only with Always included NRD. Travel Agency group rates may or may not combine with Always Included tiers. Travel Agency national accounts offers (CUG discount, opaque100 discount, CelebrityValues obc offer, etc) may or may not combine with Always included and /or NRD VS refundable deposit rates.  The list goes on and on and on….. even Celebrity reps often don’t know what does or does not combine.  Additionally the fact that the included perks are not added to the reservation until 3 to 7 days after booking and show as first a charge and then a credit, and don’t all get added at the same time, complicates the invoicing. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by AtlantaCruiser72