Question re Cruising "by" or "to" Antarctica

[cccole]

We have booked the December 20, 2022 Oosterdam cruise, with a refundable deposit.  Will the Oosterdam be able to cruise like HAL ships in the past or will cruising "by" instead of "to" change the experience?  The photos that came from HAL ships in Antarctica in early 2020 were amazing.  I know that weather has a lot to do with viewing but am trying to understand if the Oosterdam will cruise the same waters as prior cruises, if possible.  Thank you,  Cherie

[rkacruiser]

Unsure what distinction you are making between cruising "by" or "to" Antarctica.  HAL's sailings have always been sailing to/by Antarctica.  If you are thinking that that a landing on the Continent is part of the HAL experience, you are mistaken.  On the Volendam, I sailed "to" Antarctica and then spent 2+ days sailing  off shore of Antarctica.  Lots of beautiful scenery, much wildlife, and with excellent, expert commentary by knowledgeable men and women who added greatly to the understanding and enjoyment of what I was seeing.  

[cccole]

Thank you rkacruiser,  I know that HAL does not land on the continent of Antarctica.  Changes have been proposed re large cruise ships in Antarctica due to their environmental impact.  I saw on the roll call for this cruise a reference to cruising "by" and cruising "to".  I think what you are saying is that the 2022/23 itinerary in Antarctica is not different from previous years.  Of course, weather determines everything.  Cherie

[dawei]

Cherie, We were on the Volendam's 2020 visit to Antarctica. It was, and remains for me, one of the most fantastic experiences I've ever had.

From the Oosterdam's itinerary map, it appears that your Dec. 2022 cruise will not reach as far south along the Antarctic Peninsula as the Volendam was able to.

Other more recent cruises also do not reach as far south as was the case a couple years ago. My understanding is that this change is due to upgraded international ice classification requirements for ships. For safety reasons, ships are limited to sailing in ice based upon several physical requirements, one of which is the shape and reinforcement (thickness) of the ship's hull.

What it looks like from HAL's sketchy map is that December's visit will reach the South Shetland Islands, which should prove quite interesting. For example, Deception Island is home to 9 species of birds, and more than 140,000 pairs of Chinstrap Penguins have their nests there. King George Island has the largest group of scientific stations in Antarctica.

From what I've read, December is a good time to visit Antarctica before the winter arrives there. Our 2020 cruise visited there in early February, near the onset of deep Antarctic winter which reduces the number of birds, fish and mammals in the area.

In addition to Antarctic waters, other nearby highlights of the cruise for me included a shore excursion from Punta Arenas, Chile that visited a penguin colony on a nearby island which allowed us to get up close with the birds. Another great penguin experience was an excursion in Stanley, Falkland Islands where the large colony included three penguin species including a developing group of Emperor Penguins. 

I've not been to the area of the Antarctic where your cruise will sail. So, for me, if given the chance, I'm ready to go!

 

David

[cccole]

David, THANK YOU sooooooo much.  This really helps with my understanding of the changes.  I followed two HAL cruises in 2020 that included Antarctica and both had absolutely amazing photos.  Since then I have had Antarctica on the top of my travel list.  I can only imagine what you saw that made it one of the most fantastic experiences you have had.  I just looked at Jeff Farschman's blog and it was his photos from the Volendam's January, 2020 voyage that I remember.   All of the info you have provided is really helpful in making the decision.  It also helps that, even with the changes, you would go.  Thank you,  Cherie  

[nocl]

3 hours ago, dawei said:

Cherie, We were on the Volendam's 2020 visit to Antarctica. It was, and remains for me, one of the most fantastic experiences I've ever had.

From the Oosterdam's itinerary map, it appears that your Dec. 2022 cruise will not reach as far south along the Antarctic Peninsula as the Volendam was able to.

Other more recent cruises also do not reach as far south as was the case a couple years ago. My understanding is that this change is due to upgraded international ice classification requirements for ships. For safety reasons, ships are limited to sailing in ice based upon several physical requirements, one of which is the shape and reinforcement (thickness) of the ship's hull.

What it looks like from HAL's sketchy map is that December's visit will reach the South Shetland Islands, which should prove quite interesting. For example, Deception Island is home to 9 species of birds, and more than 140,000 pairs of Chinstrap Penguins have their nests there. King George Island has the largest group of scientific stations in Antarctica.

From what I've read, December is a good time to visit Antarctica before the winter arrives there. Our 2020 cruise visited there in early February, near the onset of deep Antarctic winter which reduces the number of birds, fish and mammals in the area.

In addition to Antarctic waters, other nearby highlights of the cruise for me included a shore excursion from Punta Arenas, Chile that visited a penguin colony on a nearby island which allowed us to get up close with the birds. Another great penguin experience was an excursion in Stanley, Falkland Islands where the large colony included three penguin species including a developing group of Emperor Penguins. 

I've not been to the area of the Antarctic where your cruise will sail. So, for me, if given the chance, I'm ready to go!

 

David

The map does not match the text description.  The map indicates shows them up around coronation island, the text description indicates going down near Paradise Bay.  I wonder if they have neglected to update the text or if their map is wrong.

 

Celebrity still lists their 2023 and 2024 itinerary as going through Schollart Channel to Paradise Bay as well so maybe the drive by cruises are still reaching that .far along  the peninsula.

 

On the other hand NCL says that they go to admiralty bay and elephant island in the South Shetland Islands Which is kind of what the HAL map indicates.

 

I will second that December is an excellent time.  Palmer station  that is in that  area is in  winter over from mid April  to October. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by nocl

[visagrunt]

The difference between scenic cruising on a HAL ship and an actual voyage to Antarctica on an expedition ship is like night an day.

Don't let the expedition part faze you.  On our Ponant expedition to Antarctica the oldest passenger was 91, and she was getting in and out of the zodiacs with the rest of us as was the famous French glaciologist Claude Lorius, who was merely 84 (and travelling as a passenger, not a speaker).

The number of expedition leaders, and the breadth of their experience from their various disciplines is enormously educational, and the opportunity to truly join the Seven Continents Club™ is not to be passed up.  Getting up close to tens of thousands of penguins looks charming, sounds deafening and smells like something that has to be experienced to be believed.

That's not to say that scenic cruising isn't wonderful.  But expedition cruising is much more accessible than the name might imply and provides an exponentially greater experience.

[john2003]

We are booked on the Jan 11, 2023 sailing. Your post has prompted me to look a little closer at where the cruise might go. Our previous trip was on the Ryndam in Jan  2002. It was amazing. We were supposed to go through Lemaire Channel but it was still frozen. We went in and then backed out. Something tells me the Oosterdam won't try that even though it would probably be safer with the pods.

Bottom line if not constrained by money or health, do an expedition. Otherwise,  go for the drive by!

[dawei]

I'm sure an expedition cruise would be great. On the Volendam in 2020, we saw 2 or 3 expeditions and pax out in the zodiacs. Matter of fact, it was an expedition ship at anchor not too far from our paused ship at one point that provided us with a photo of our own ship in the Antarctic scenery, making for a unique souvenir.

An expedition is just the cost factor for us.

Why do some ships still sale farther south on the Peninsula? There are others on this board who are more knowledgeable than I about this, but my understanding is that each ship has an ice certification classification that must be re-examined in a particular year. Until that time, they can sail farther south than will be allowed when it's time for that ship's recertification. This results in some ships having to stay north and others still able to sail south on the Peninsula. So, it's possible that the Volendam can no longer reach the latitude it did in 2020, but I really don't know.

Cherie--I forgot to mention that we have booked the Grand S. America/Antarctica for 2023. Sounds like a good endorsement to me 😉

 

David

[dawei]

Another postscript:   

James' comment about the excellent guides on his expedition experience reminded me of the two experts aboard the Volendam in 2020' Grand: Craig Franklin, a Ph.D. from the Univ. of Queensland, AU and Peter Carey, also a Ph.D. zoologist from either NZ or AU (don't recall which). Both of them have years of experience in Antarctica (and obviously love it) and provided presentations and commentary over the PA system that greatly enhanced our 4 days there. Also, pax were each given a copy of a book they authored entitled "Antarctica Cruising Guide" that covers every aspect and includes lots of color photos and maps. If they're going to be on the Oosterdam, I'd call it a real plus.

 

David

[cruisemom42]

Landing in Antarctica versus just sailing by is something I've struggled with. As a solo cruiser, it is difficult to find any voyages that are remotely affordable with landings. But for me there is a second factor, and I know it will be hard for some to understand:  on my own personal list, Antarctica doesn't rate very high. I am much more into ancient history than scenic/expedition cruising and wildlife.

 

If Antarctica were a burning passion, I could afford an expedition cruise. But it would mean that I'd probably have to save for it and exclude all other travel for a couple of years. I just can't make that sacrifice work for me....

 

I was booked on one of the HAL itineraries that does Antarctica as a sail by in January 2021 and January 2022 (both canceled).  I will get there one of these days. If it turns out that I absolutely love it, then I will decide how to make an expedition cruise work.

 

Regarding the OP's query:  The fear that non-expedition ships would not be able to travel south of a certain point is what triggered me to book the HAL cruise in 2021. It was a persistent source of irritation that environmental groups/agencies seem to be saying one thing about cruising in the far North and far South, while cruise ships seem to be continuing on with their same itineraries and no good explanation as to whether there will be a change. I hope you're able to find out!

[chengkp75]

Arctic/Antarctic cruising will be very different starting this year, as the "drop dead" dates for nearly every cruise ship to operate in these waters have expired.  As stated above, the changes are due to IMO regulations for safety for passenger vessels operating in Arctic waters, far from emergency infrastructure.  For the most part, only those vessels specifically designed to meet the new requirements (basically specially built after 2013) can operate above or below 60* north/south.

 

I am surprised that existing ships are still planning on visiting the South Shetlands, as these are between 61-63* S.  I believe they are operating under conditional approval for areas where there has "historically been no ice at the time of year", but I'm surprised they are trying for the islands in December, since the waters around them are ice bound until early December.  They may be required to cancel the port stops if there is any ice still around at the time of your cruise.

 

Anything that approaches the Antarctic Peninsula will have to be a specially built expedition ship, due to the prevalence of ice there during the "summer" months.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Arctic/Antarctic cruising will be very different starting this year, as the "drop dead" dates for nearly every cruise ship to operate in these waters have expired.  As stated above, the changes are due to IMO regulations for safety for passenger vessels operating in Arctic waters, far from emergency infrastructure.  For the most part, only those vessels specifically designed to meet the new requirements (basically specially built after 2013) can operate above or below 60* north/south.

 

I am surprised that existing ships are still planning on visiting the South Shetlands, as these are between 61-63* S.  I believe they are operating under conditional approval for areas where there has "historically been no ice at the time of year", but I'm surprised they are trying for the islands in December, since the waters around them are ice bound until early December.  They may be required to cancel the port stops if there is any ice still around at the time of your cruise.

 

Anything that approaches the Antarctic Peninsula will have to be a specially built expedition ship, due to the prevalence of ice there during the "summer" months.

That makes it clear that the text descriptions being used by HAL and Celebrity cannot be correct.

 

Having spent a total of 9 months on Antarctica over 3 years at McMurdo or out on the sea ice in McMurdo sound, I would also say if you can afford it at all do an expedition ship with landings.

[tupper10]

The price point of the expedition cruises is very high at this point in time.  There are some less expensive expedition cruises but they are in rooms that have 3 people.  I suggest you google antarctic cruises -there are websites that aggregate all the expedition ships going each season with prices. There are also travel agencies that specialize in these types of cruises so perhaps hook up with a good travel agent who can monitor the prices for you.    We did this and managed to hit a  relatively low fare for an expedition ship. It was the cruise of a lifetime and well worth it.  If you can afford it - please do the expedition cruise.  You will not be sorry.    

[OlsSalt]

We  were on the Zaandam - Jan/Feb 2020 before her illustrious long exit from Antarctica and had a fabulous "drive-by" cruise - exceptional clear weather, reasonable Drake's passage, and lots of wildlife along with legendary Antarctic scenery - anyone seeing the massive tabular ice shelfs for the first time knows what I am talking about - unique to the Antarctic. 

 

We entered bays so full of krill the depth navigation systems no longer worked and the captain had to chart a very careful course, while still letting us see hundreds of whales swirling, bubbling and feeding underwater in that protected bay. 

 

Anyone looking for more cultural depth to this cruise can explore history of the Antarctic expeditions, particularly the Shakelton ill-fated expedition and its extraordinary rescue story which adds plenty of human drama for those looking for more than just wildlife viewing.  Once immersed in these early adventurer's tales, one may find this the quest to explore this last unchartered continent is motivation enough to even take a "drive-by" cruise. 

 

History is also made just "rounding the horn" and seeing first hand how treacherous this passage to the West could be for the early settlors of North America, as well at those who ventured first into this waters ...where they be monsters .....according to the crude early maps of the world. The mock ups of Magellen's and Darwin's ships in Puntarenas is worth the trip too.  

 

A good compromise in the interests of cost-savings is to do an Antarctic "drive by"  cruise and also explore the rich King penguin colonies on the Falkland Islands - thousand and thousands of elegant King penguins, where you can walk among them and observe their antics up close.  It is a rugged drive out to these colonies, but what a reward at the end of the rough and tumble 4X4 road race across open fields. 

 

Not quite the penguin-rich South Georgia Island covered only by the expedition ships,  but you do get a very good penguin immersion experience, where it is cold and windy enough to not be overwhelmed by the penguin smells, as duly reported. There are also other large penguin colony visit  options at other ports.

 

HAL offered excellent onboard lectures from a variety of perspectives. So even without putting a foot on land and struggling with temperamental zodiac landings, it was a full sensory immersion experience. 

 

I think most can come back with fabulous and unique memories from any Antarctic cruise - no matter which option one chooses.  Keeping in mind, the best laid plans can and will be altered by weather at any given moment - drive-by itineraries or expedition landings. We hit some extraordinarily clear sunshiny weather, whereas other cruise photos from earlier cruises showed the same scenes shrouded in fog with no hint of the sharp peaks hiding behind the clouds.

 

Ice cut short our further exploration of the Waddell Sea. Safety first, last and always but we got to see the large scientific settlement at Cape Esperanza which was a treat too.  Each day the captain had to chart appropriate routes, all subject to change so there is no fixed or guaranteed itinerary for any ship.

 

The downside for us, is this drive-by cruise only whetted our appetite for more so yes, we do hope to return ..... on an expedition cruise that includes South Georgia and Elephant Island, because we got totally hooked on the Shakelton story and want to pay homage to the footsteps he left across this remote and alluring land.

[drowelf]

We did a drive by on the Zaandam back in 2015 and had an experience very similar to OlsSalt. Wonderful weather, no rough seas on crossing Drakes Passage (both ways) and we made port in the Falklands, just as an FYI approximately 1/3 of the ships with Port Stanley on their itinerary don't make it do to weather. We had a fantastic group of speakers on our cruise. The lead speaker was the former head of operations of the NSF for McMurdo station. The stories he could tell! We also had personal from Palmer Station visit the ship for several hours during our cruise. While onboard they basically emptied the Salad Bar and Ice Cream stations as getting fresh vegetables is one thing they say is missed most. 

 

We have been trying to go back for several years now. We have been booked on Celebrity for the past 2 years (2021/2022), but those got cancelled due to Covid. We are on the 2023 version now and hope to make the trip in late January (board 1/30). Only time will tell. I would love to land on the continent, but having a hard time convincing the DW that its something that we should do. Its not the expense as much, which is a lot, but its the zodiacs. She does not like small boats at all! Getting her on the tenders for those ports is sometimes an effort is the seas are anything other than calm. 

 

We choose Celebrity over HAL because its a shorter cruise (14 vs 22). Back when we did it in 2015 on the Zaandam, it was 19 days. We figured that while we could give up the cruise down the Chilean coast to reduce the time of the cruise. Don't get us wrong, the Chilean Fjords/Beagle Passage were great, but we decided to skip it this time to reduce the amount total cost/cruise duration.  

 

The general terminology I've seen is that the mass market cruise lines do 'Drive By' cruises of Antarctica. The Expedition Lines cruise to Antarctica and allow you to land. 

[cccole]

What fun to wake of this a.m. and see all of the responses.  Thank you, thank you.  I totally understand how amazing an expedition cruise would be.  However, I am not sure that late this year and taking our daughter and SIL we could pull it off financially.  As OlsSalt and drowelf have mentioned a "driveby" is a great experience and wets the appetite for more.  I think all who have done this cruise in 2020, with good weather, are so lucky and that is what I am hopeful for.  Everyone has given me lots to consider before making the deposit on Friday, luckily we were able to extend the deposit deadline.  

 

I started by googling Antarctica cruises for December 2022/January.  Many cruise lines begin this itinerary in 2023.  Unfortunately I am not familiar with the TA's that pop up and am hesitant to book with one without a recommendation.  I wish, as tupper-10 recommends, good TA's could be suggested here.

 

NOCL, chengkp75, and cruisemom42 have given me reason to question the itinerary.  For both passenger safety and environmental reasons large cruise ships seem to have more restrictions than in 2020.

 

Thank you again everyone for taking the time to respond with such good info.  Cherie 

[drowelf]

46 minutes ago, cccole said:

NOCL, chengkp75, and cruisemom42 have given me reason to question the itinerary.  For both passenger safety and environmental reasons large cruise ships seem to have more restrictions than in 2020.

 

Thank you again everyone for taking the time to respond with such good info.  Cherie 

I have the same questions too for our 2023 Celebrity Cruise. The current itinerary has for the Antarctica portion

 

SCHOLLART CHANNEL,ANTARCTICA
PARADISE BAY, ANTARCTICA

GERLACHE STRAIT
ELEPHANT ISLAND, ANTARCTICA
 

All of which are inside of the 60 degree demarcation line for the Polar Code. So we shall see. I can't wait until the year end when we can actually get some reports from ships that are actually sailing those waters. 

 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, cccole said:

What fun to wake of this a.m. and see all of the responses.  Thank you, thank you.  I totally understand how amazing an expedition cruise would be.  However, I am not sure that late this year and taking our daughter and SIL we could pull it off financially.  As OlsSalt and drowelf have mentioned a "driveby" is a great experience and wets the appetite for more.  I think all who have done this cruise in 2020, with good weather, are so lucky and that is what I am hopeful for.  Everyone has given me lots to consider before making the deposit on Friday, luckily we were able to extend the deposit deadline.  

 

I started by googling Antarctica cruises for December 2022/January.  Many cruise lines begin this itinerary in 2023.  Unfortunately I am not familiar with the TA's that pop up and am hesitant to book with one without a recommendation.  I wish, as tupper-10 recommends, good TA's could be suggested here.

 

NOCL, chengkp75, and cruisemom42 have given me reason to question the itinerary.  For both passenger safety and environmental reasons large cruise ships seem to have more restrictions than in 2020.

 

Thank you again everyone for taking the time to respond with such good info.  Cherie 

You might check out Hurtigruten.  They are probably the most economical of the lines that land in Antarctica. They are on 500 passenger ships, so a bit larger than most of the expedition ships, but still small enough to do landings.

 

I keep trying to talk my wife into doing an Ice Breaker in the Ross sea, out of New Zealand, so we can go back into the area where I spent time during my college days, but have not been able to talk her into it yet.

[cccole]

NOCL - OMG - I have never heard of the Ross Sea.  These expedition cruises look absolutely amazing.  Cherie

[nocl]

28 minutes ago, cccole said:

NOCL - OMG - I have never heard of the Ross Sea.  These expedition cruises look absolutely amazing.  Cherie

The Ross sea is where the main US Antarctic research base (McMurdo Station) is located on Ross Island.  The same location where Scott and Shackleton launched their efforts to reach the south pole. The huts from their expeditions are still there on Ross Island (NS did a major project to restore them a number of years ago).  It is far enough south that during the Antarctic summer you can watch the sun go around in a circle, instead of rising and setting.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by nocl

[OlsSalt]

Another consideration between expedition and drive by is the additional costs of purchase or rental of special gear in order to go ashore on zodiacs - tall water proof boots with special treads and long water proof pants - though parkas are often included in the expedition cruise price.   Some lines offer these items onboard, others require separate rentals up front.

 

The rental adds a few hundred dollars more to the total cost - and if you bring your own it adds to the luggage weight and storage space - most of the cabins on expedition ships are quire small compared to what we have gotten used to on HAL ships. 

 

Meticulous care cleaning your boots and pants takes place in the "mud room" and is the responsibility of each passenger to avoid any possible cross contamination of this pristine terrain.

 

The surprise is finding the Antarctic --in full day summers - is not as cold as expected. Definitely cold, but not bitter awful cold - sometimes even shirt sleeve sunny - full day (and night) sun exposure, reflected off the ice when the air is still, allowed it to be quite pleasant.  Wind is the chiller. 

[nocl]

40 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Another consideration between expedition and drive by is the additional costs of purchase or rental of special gear in order to go ashore on zodiacs - tall water proof boots with special treads and long water proof pants - though parkas are often included in the expedition cruise price.   Some lines offer these items onboard, others require separate rentals up front.

 

The rental adds a few hundred dollars more to the total cost - and if you bring your own it adds to the luggage weight and storage space - most of the cabins on expedition ships are quire small compared to what we have gotten used to on HAL ships. 

 

Meticulous care cleaning your boots and pants takes place in the "mud room" and is the responsibility of each passenger to avoid any possible cross contamination of this pristine terrain.

 

The surprise is finding the Antarctic --in full day summers - is not as cold as expected. Definitely cold, but not bitter awful cold - sometimes even shirt sleeve sunny - full day (and night) sun exposure, reflected off the ice when the air is still, allowed it to be quite pleasant.  Wind is the chiller. 

A number of them also include the boots and water proof out layer as part of the cruise.

 

I for one would consider any boots/pants one wears to a penguin colony (anybody that has walked around a penguin colony will know why) to be throw away items anyway.  For anyone have to bring or buy their own, pick up a light weight cheap waterproof pants as an out layer (Frog togs for example) and the same with a cheap rubber boot to go over your own shoes.

 

As far as temperature, the picture I use for CC was of me laying on a sheet of cardboard, getting some sun on the sea ice in McMurdo sound with an ice berg in the background.  It can be very cold, it can be nice.  Once you spend time there 25 degrees with no wind is nice.

 

We referred to the peninsula as the banana belt.

Edited January 4, 2022 by nocl

[StLouisCruisers]

Some of the cruise lines take care of your boots for you.  Ours were stored on a rear covered deck in wire crates and they did a thorough cleaning of boots between Antarctica and South Georgia Islands. Boots rented for about $70 if I recall and it was worthwhile not having to buy them and have to pack in the luggage.  Besides, who knew if you'd need them again?  This was on Seabourn Quest Dec. 2016-Jan. 2017.  Ships were limited to 400 passengers for the Antarctica cruises.  Very lux and comfortable.

[foodsvcmgr]

New year, new thread, same endless debate as to why four major large ship cruise lines continue to advertise drive bys that are allegedly prohibited.

I’m booked for ‘23 on the Celebrity itinerary referenced so very curious.

While most of this season’s sailings have been cancelled, at this moment Norwegian Star is headed for Buenos Aires to hopefully start a series of Antarctica cruises.

So within the next few weeks we may be able to get some first hand reports of where exactly these drive bys are actually sailing to.