Update on P&O Insurance Issues

[amajaa]

Has anyone used the Insurance Company recommended by P & O ( initial H E ) 

 

Are they any good and how do you put the code in P & O give you, I couldn't see anywhere they asked for it. Did anyone get a discount from entering this code? 

[Megabear2]

We are still talking with Holiday Extras to my surprise!  Just received:

 

Quote

 

Dear xxxxxxx

 

I just wanted to update you.  Matthew is meeting with his insurance team next week to talk about the points raised in your email and he will be able to come back to you.

 

Unquote 

 

 

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, amajaa said:

Has anyone used the Insurance Company recommended by P & O ( initial H E ) 

 

Are they any good and how do you put the code in P & O give you, I couldn't see anywhere they asked for it. Did anyone get a discount from entering this code? 

Hi Amajaa.  Holiday Extras are in discussions with me at present on behalf of all of us.  Their policy is fairly comprehensive but doesn't offer cover in the event of being offloaded ashore on a negative Covid test if you are a close contact.  In fairness they are not alone as 95% of UK policies dont cover this type of scenario. Their underwriter is Great Lakes which is the same as many other UK insurers. I understand their policies can be expensive depending on your personal circumstances.

 

You will not get a discount by entering the code, it is merely to let HE know you are travelling P&O as opposed to the other lines that recommend them.

 

The companies we have found offering this "full" cover tend to be major banks and UK leading insurers such as Aviva and Allianz. Hope this helps.

[BouncingWheel]

I tried Allianz today and they are currently not offering Cruise Travel Insurance as "their policies are being rewritten". Instead they redirected me to a company called FreeSpirit which seem to be a competitor which was rather strange

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, BouncingWheel said:

I tried Allianz today and they are currently not offering Cruise Travel Insurance as "their policies are being rewritten". Instead they redirected me to a company called FreeSpirit which seem to be a competitor which was rather strange

Rewritten sounds interesting.  I am insured with them so I'd better check my cover!

[BouncingWheel]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Rewritten sounds interesting.  I am insured with them so I'd better check my cover!

Nothing to check at the moment as they are in the process of doing it. Same thing happened to me in the summer for my Seacation. I was told, like everyone else, to use HE as the preferred supplier but when I rang them they said they could not offer anything at present as their policies were changing.

I believe the change was the one you highlighted where they moved from one underwriter to another.

Edited February 4, 2022 by BouncingWheel
typo

[Gettingwarmer]

28 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Rewritten sounds interesting.  I am insured with them so I'd better check my cover!

It may be just this, the extra cruise insurance i.e. cover for missed ports etc.

MORE INFORMATION

 

Cruise Travel

Insurance

From 5th May 2021, while we can still cover you under the standard sections or our travel insurance policies while on a cruise holiday, will not be able to offer the additional cover previously provided by the Cruise travel optional extra section. This is only a temporary measure while we make improvements to the booking engine of our website. Please keep an eye on the Allianz Assistance website in the future so you are aware when we are able to offer this additional cover again.

MORE INFORMATIO

[amajaa]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Hi Amajaa.  Holiday Extras are in discussions with me at present on behalf of all of us.  Their policy is fairly comprehensive but doesn't offer cover in the event of being offloaded ashore on a negative Covid test if you are a close contact.  In fairness they are not alone as 95% of UK policies dont cover this type of scenario. Their underwriter is Great Lakes which is the same as many other UK insurers. I understand their policies can be expensive depending on your personal circumstances.

 

You will not get a discount by entering the code, it is merely to let HE know you are travelling P&O as opposed to the other lines that recommend them.

 

The companies we have found offering this "full" cover tend to be major banks and UK leading insurers such as Aviva and Allianz. Hope this helps.

Many thanks for info and all your hard work.

 

I don't suppose anyone has tried or is already insured with Liverpool Victoria as we have our House Insurance with them.

[Megabear2]

There are references to LV on a couple of pages back  of this link.  I believe they do not offer the offloading cover if I remember the conversation.

 

Have your tried Aviva?

[debege]

5 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

There are references to LV on a couple of pages back  of this link.  I believe they do not offer the offloading cover if I remember the conversation.

 

Have your tried Aviva?

Oh my Lord Megabear2, I have followed your epic journey all through these posts, and greatly admired the astonishing quality and shear quantity of work you have put into trying to pin these companies down and force them into giving customer a fair deal on the insurance front. It gave me hope that I may succeed in my quest.

 

I came across these pages in my efforts to secure what sadly may well be the proverbial 'one last cruise' for my dear lady wife. We are diamond level with RCI, but due to this wretched pandemic we, like so many others, have not managet to get away for a couple of years. Unfortunately, this forced delay is extra bothersome for us,  because age and serious ailments means time is not on our side.

 

During this period, I have managed to keep my wife smiling by playing her the many videos I have made of our cruises, and talk of the future. Our travel insurance bill has been large for some years, as we both have cancer (sadly incurable in her case), plus a mixture of other ailments, some reasonably complicated. The extra issue now though is this; I am 77, and she is now 80....and I had not realised until I read one of the recent posts on this page that 80 was the cut-of age to reasonably expect to get our required type of insurance cover.

 

I will still try of course, but I would imagine that if there ever was hope, that was scuppered by the covid complications under discussion here. Not looking forward to telling the poor old lass, but none the less, I thank for your sterling efforts at securing fair play for all. Very well done.

[johnnylikely]

7 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

There are references to LV on a couple of pages back  of this link.  I believe they do not offer the offloading cover if I remember the conversation.

 

Have your tried Aviva?

I have LV travel insurance- I'm not up to date with their Corona cover etc 

But the couple of times I needed to claim (gran passing, missed ports etc), they paid out without question. Better than AIG who didn't classify my aunt's death as 'family'!

[Megabear2]

7 hours ago, debege said:

Oh my Lord Megabear2, I have followed your epic journey all through these posts, and greatly admired the astonishing quality and shear quantity of work you have put into trying to pin these companies down and force them into giving customer a fair deal on the insurance front. It gave me hope that I may succeed in my quest.

 

I came across these pages in my efforts to secure what sadly may well be the proverbial 'one last cruise' for my dear lady wife. We are diamond level with RCI, but due to this wretched pandemic we, like so many others, have not managet to get away for a couple of years. Unfortunately, this forced delay is extra bothersome for us,  because age and serious ailments means time is not on our side.

 

During this period, I have managed to keep my wife smiling by playing her the many videos I have made of our cruises, and talk of the future. Our travel insurance bill has been large for some years, as we both have cancer (sadly incurable in her case), plus a mixture of other ailments, some reasonably complicated. The extra issue now though is this; I am 77, and she is now 80....and I had not realised until I read one of the recent posts on this page that 80 was the cut-of age to reasonably expect to get our required type of insurance cover.

 

I will still try of course, but I would imagine that if there ever was hope, that was scuppered by the covid complications under discussion here. Not looking forward to telling the poor old lass, but none the less, I thank for your sterling efforts at securing fair play for all. Very well done.

Hopefully this may help you, not a recommendation I hasten to add, but they do offer some form of Covid offloading cover - around £2,000 - and do insure over 80s, although I am unsure on your wife's situation.

 

I do wish you the very best of luck finding something suitable and if you are able keep us informed if you have luck.  Please remember that the Covid offloading is a rare scenario.  If your medical team say you are fine to travel don't let this be the defining thing in your decision.

 

https://www.allcleartravel.co.uk/travel-insurance/seniors/over-80s/

 

Very best wishes and good luck.

 

[Megabear2]

8 hours ago, debege said:

Oh my Lord Megabear2, I have followed your epic journey all through these posts, and greatly admired the astonishing quality and shear quantity of work you have put into trying to pin these companies down and force them into giving customer a fair deal on the insurance front. It gave me hope that I may succeed in my quest.

 

I came across these pages in my efforts to secure what sadly may well be the proverbial 'one last cruise' for my dear lady wife. We are diamond level with RCI, but due to this wretched pandemic we, like so many others, have not managet to get away for a couple of years. Unfortunately, this forced delay is extra bothersome for us,  because age and serious ailments means time is not on our side.

 

During this period, I have managed to keep my wife smiling by playing her the many videos I have made of our cruises, and talk of the future. Our travel insurance bill has been large for some years, as we both have cancer (sadly incurable in her case), plus a mixture of other ailments, some reasonably complicated. The extra issue now though is this; I am 77, and she is now 80....and I had not realised until I read one of the recent posts on this page that 80 was the cut-of age to reasonably expect to get our required type of insurance cover.

 

I will still try of course, but I would imagine that if there ever was hope, that was scuppered by the covid complications under discussion here. Not looking forward to telling the poor old lass, but none the less, I thank for your sterling efforts at securing fair play for all. Very well done.

https://www.quotezone.co.uk/travel-insurance/pre-existing-medical-conditions/terminal-illness

[howmuch!]

7 hours ago, johnnylikely said:

I have LV travel insurance- I'm not up to date with their Corona cover etc 

But the couple of times I needed to claim (gran passing, missed ports etc), they paid out without question. Better than AIG who didn't classify my aunt's death as 'family'!

We have been with LV for several years (excluding 20/21), and have also had an excellent claims experience. When my wife developed a bad chest infection (which started on a sea day, otherwise we would have been ashore looking for medication), Marella medics managed to run up an £1800 bill on-board in 2 days, and LV paid directly to them without quibble. They have also paid for missed ports on 2 occasions, so I was quite surprised when I queried the position regarding Quarantine hotels, but it seems to be the position for most insurers.

[debege]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:06 AM, Megabear2 said:

Hopefully this may help you, not a recommendation I hasten to add, but they do offer some form of Covid offloading cover - around £2,000 - and do insure over 80s, although I am unsure on your wife's situation.

 

I do wish you the very best of luck finding something suitable and if you are able keep us informed if you have luck.  Please remember that the Covid offloading is a rare scenario.  If your medical team say you are fine to travel don't let this be the defining thing in your decision.

 

https://www.allcleartravel.co.uk/travel-insurance/seniors/over-80s/

 

Very best wishes and good luck.

 

 

Hi Megabear2, thank you so much for you suggestions and kind wishes, and apologies for my delayed response. We have used Allclear before, but I was not aware they catered for over 80's. Truth of the matter is, until I read one particular post on this thread, I was not even aware that 80 was a milestone in travel insurance terms!  However, your two latest replies have given me fresh hope, so smiling again.

 

As for your second post, my good lady has not had a terminal prognosis as such, just been made aware that her cancer (Non Hodgkin's Lymphoma) is incurable, so sadly just a matter of time, and the estimated time expectancy quoted on diagnosis is nearing its end. However, she is an optimist, so doesn't dwell on it, bless her. My own cancer (prostate) seems to have responded well to radio therapy, so all good on that front....in fact my COPD, emphysema and diverticular disease are far more troublesome! This growing old business is not all its cracked up to be, lol.

 

However, we have been far more fortunate in life than many , so no complaints, and if I CAN get the old love another cruise , then I will be a very happy chappy! So, thank you for your help Megabear2, you are clearly a caring person, something that seems increasingly rare in this day and age.

[Megabear2]

For anyone still interested, HE latest reply:

 

"Dear xxxxxxxxx

Thank you for another thorough write-up. I’ll address your comments as best as I can below.

Once again I fully understand and appreciate your position as a customer, and traveller, simply trying to understand who will accept responsibility for the disembarkation scenario that you describe. I hope that my previous email at least helped to clarify our position, which I think was not clear when you first got in contact with us.

I am interested in the insurance companies that you mention that include cover for this scenario. If we can provide evidence to our underwriters that this cover does in fact exist then perhaps this will help in our discussions around this particular section of cover in future.

On your point that you assume it is a commercial decision not to cover this scenario: I believe that on balance of risk, our underwriters are choosing not to cover a situation where they have no control over the care that the customer receives, nor the decisions that could be made that would lead to a customer being put in a situation that is not in their best interests. We, along with our underwriters, maintain that what is best for the customer cannot be determined by local or port authorities making blanket demands to disembark.

Travel insurance is designed to help customers in situations that are unforeseen and/or entirely outside of their control. Referring back to the guidance from the UK Chamber of Shipping, it makes clear the responsibility the cruise ship has to the passenger. A disembarkation with no positive case of COVID-19, and/or no need for medical assistance as agreed by the assistance team is not, by default, the responsibility of the passenger’s travel insurance. Our conversations with our cruise partners on these matters are ongoing but positive, and I expect we will be able to share some more helpful advice soon.

As I mentioned in my previous email, the situation you describe is incredibly complex and there are situations where assistance and cover is appropriate, but many where it is not.

I want to stress that I am grateful you have taken the time to contact me about this, I am taking your concerns seriously, and they have formed the basis for many of our discussions in recent weeks. Please also accept my apologies for my delayed response, I was hoping to have more helpful information to share with you, but it’s not quite ready yet.

If you have any thoughts or developments from your other communications that you would like to share then please continue to contact me directly.

Kind regards"

 

For what it's worth my two pennyworth: they are all speaking and discussing who is going to have to give way to who.  I'm going to reply to HE with as much info as I can provide.  I'm also going to ask the million dollar question and ask him to tell me how many people his company have helped and what happened to the others.

 

"Travel insurance is designed to help customers in situations that are unforeseen and/or entirely outside of their control. Referring back to the guidance from the UK Chamber of Shipping, it makes clear the responsibility the cruise ship has to the passenger. A disembarkation with no positive case of COVID-19, and/or no need for medical assistance as agreed by the assistance team is not, by default, the responsibility of the passenger’s travel insurance."  I think this says it all really. If the cruise lines want to sail under the rules they accepted last year they're going to have to deal with this.

 

On a personal note it's a case of and then there was two for my own April Aurora cruise as my other four family members have now cancelled leaving just me and Auntie. P&O doing exceptionally well on funds from my family!

[MX-Drew]

15 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Travel insurance is designed to help customers in situations that are unforeseen and/or entirely outside of their control. Referring back to the guidance from the UK Chamber of Shipping, it makes clear the responsibility the cruise ship has to the passenger. A disembarkation with no positive case of COVID-19, and/or no need for medical assistance as agreed by the assistance team is not, by default, the responsibility of the passenger’s travel insurance.

On this point, is there not a contradiction here? 

"Travel insurance is designed to help customers in situations that are unforeseen and/or entirely outside of their control."

And

"A disembarkation with no positive case of COVID-19, and/or no need for medical assistance as agreed by the assistance team..."

 

Yes I get the guidance from the UK Chamber of Shipping that the cruise lines have agreed to but the forced disembarkation at a port for being a close contact to a person who tested positive for Covid-19 is beyond the control of the customer and the cruise line. So just what travel insurance is designed for them. 

 

sounds like a case of passing the buck, just as I expect insurance companies to do.

Edited February 9, 2022 by MX-Drew

[Megabear2]

I have replied, not my best I'm afraid:

 

"Dear xxxxxxx,

 

Thank you for your reply.  I fully appreciate that it is a complex situation.  I am happy to name the companies and associates who have informed me and other policyholders that they would cover the scenario I outlined.

 

They are in no specific order:

 

Allianz (I believe they are currently not selling cruise insurance directly due to a policy upgrade but they have confirmed all existing policies cover the event), 

Aviva, 

M&S, 

Halifax, 

Nationwide, 

NatWest, 

RBS, 

Direct Line, 

Barclays Travel Pack 

 

all the above cover fully the quarantine of negative companions.  

 

AllClear and Cover for All have a £2,000 limit towards quarantine of this nature. Investigation also shows nearly every packaged UK bank account and major credit card travel insurance offers cover.

 

I note your comments about the cruise lines' responsibility.  There have been quite a few hundred people put off the ships since international cruising restarted.  I appreciate it is a sensitive topic but challenge you to say whether your company has actually paid out to anyone and if not what happened to the passengers.  The cruise lines are being very tight lipped on the issue despite repeated requests from a great number of people with cruises booked. 

 

Regarding "the situation you describe is incredibly complex and there are situations where assistance and cover is appropriate, but many where it is not" I assume you are stating someone offloaded into quarantine is neither your nor the cruise lines' responsibility and they are on their own.  

 

At the time of cruises starting up and your policies being recommended quarantine onboard ship was understood by future passengers to be what they were signing up for so no one thought to ask about the level of quarantine cover ashore.  Two of your partner cruise lines decided to publish offloading as a possibility in January, most likely because the numbers being left ashore were going up due to Omicron.  It is not unreasonable therefore that passengers started to ask questions.  For instance back last year 10 members of my family booked on a 1 April 2022 cruise with P&O.  Six of them purchased your company's annual policy as recommended by P&O precisely because they wanted no trouble with Covid. Their policies were considerably dearer than the ones purchased by the remaining family members.  I actually have a separate policy from my bank and have cover. Our 82 year old aunt has now bought a second policy offering her cover from All Clear.  The other 8 members of the group have now cancelled their cruise with the resultant loss of thousands of pounds.  All because neither the cruise line or the insurer are willing to say who will be responsible and look after them and ensure they can get home if they obey a foreign Government order.  

 

Any passenger refusing to leave a ship would assumedly face serious consequences if they defy a direct Government official's order, possibly including arrest!

 

It is rather arrogant of your company to state "We, along with our underwriters, maintain that what is best for the customer cannot be determined by local or port authorities making blanket demands to disembark." You may not think it's best but for the passenger being told by a country's authorities that they have to disembark they and the ship have no control.

 

You will be aware I have also written in the strongest terms to your cruise line partners.  As mentioned previously I have indicated to them I will be raising the issue with my MP in the very near future as being piggy in the middle between business organisations is of no use to anyone.  There are a lot of very worried people out there, not just myself.  Going back to last year this issue has been a major worry for many on cruise line forums and the issue is gathering traction as a result. I do not apologise for being involved in this, there are a lot of people unable to understand how this will end.

 

I look forward with interest to hearing from you with the mystery "helpful information" and any answers to my questions.

[Jevsy]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I have replied, not my best I'm afraid:

 

"Dear xxxxxxx,

 

Thank you for your reply.  I fully appreciate that it is a complex situation.  I am happy to name the companies and associates who have informed me and other policyholders that they would cover the scenario I outlined.

 

They are in no specific order:

 

Allianz (I believe they are currently not selling cruise insurance directly due to a policy upgrade but they have confirmed all existing policies cover the event), 

Aviva, 

M&S, 

Halifax, 

Nationwide, 

NatWest, 

RBS, 

Direct Line, 

Barclays Travel Pack 

 

all the above cover fully the quarantine of negative companions.  

 

AllClear and Cover for All have a £2,000 limit towards quarantine of this nature. Investigation also shows nearly every packaged UK bank account and major credit card travel insurance offers cover.

 

I note your comments about the cruise lines' responsibility.  There have been quite a few hundred people put off the ships since international cruising restarted.  I appreciate it is a sensitive topic but challenge you to say whether your company has actually paid out to anyone and if not what happened to the passengers.  The cruise lines are being very tight lipped on the issue despite repeated requests from a great number of people with cruises booked. 

 

Regarding "the situation you describe is incredibly complex and there are situations where assistance and cover is appropriate, but many where it is not" I assume you are stating someone offloaded into quarantine is neither your nor the cruise lines' responsibility and they are on their own.  

 

At the time of cruises starting up and your policies being recommended quarantine onboard ship was understood by future passengers to be what they were signing up for so no one thought to ask about the level of quarantine cover ashore.  Two of your partner cruise lines decided to publish offloading as a possibility in January, most likely because the numbers being left ashore were going up due to Omicron.  It is not unreasonable therefore that passengers started to ask questions.  For instance back last year 10 members of my family booked on a 1 April 2022 cruise with P&O.  Six of them purchased your company's annual policy as recommended by P&O precisely because they wanted no trouble with Covid. Their policies were considerably dearer than the ones purchased by the remaining family members.  I actually have a separate policy from my bank and have cover. Our 82 year old aunt has now bought a second policy offering her cover from All Clear.  The other 8 members of the group have now cancelled their cruise with the resultant loss of thousands of pounds.  All because neither the cruise line or the insurer are willing to say who will be responsible and look after them and ensure they can get home if they obey a foreign Government order.  

 

Any passenger refusing to leave a ship would assumedly face serious consequences if they defy a direct Government official's order, possibly including arrest!

 

It is rather arrogant of your company to state "We, along with our underwriters, maintain that what is best for the customer cannot be determined by local or port authorities making blanket demands to disembark." You may not think it's best but for the passenger being told by a country's authorities that they have to disembark they and the ship have no control.

 

You will be aware I have also written in the strongest terms to your cruise line partners.  As mentioned previously I have indicated to them I will be raising the issue with my MP in the very near future as being piggy in the middle between business organisations is of no use to anyone.  There are a lot of very worried people out there, not just myself.  Going back to last year this issue has been a major worry for many on cruise line forums and the issue is gathering traction as a result. I do not apologise for being involved in this, there are a lot of people unable to understand how this will end.

 

I look forward with interest to hearing from you with the mystery "helpful information" and any answers to my questions.

Megabear2 I have followed your efforts for a considerable time now, and regardless of whether you get the final outcome we all hope for I sincerely commend you for your efforts, dogged determination, and heart to do what you have done thus far! Very sad for you that your party has diminished so much at a cost to yourselves. But regardless of the outcome you've made a difference. Thank you muchly from me and the cruise-mate hubby! 😍

[Happy afloat]

Excellent. Thank you once again for your persistence in this.

[lindyloo22]

Excellent work thank you for all your effort and time.

[cruising.mark.uk]

I sense this issue will now quietly fade away, without a resolution, given that:

(a) all indications are that C-19 related travel restrictions will fall away rapidly across the EU, quite probably starting even before the UK half term break...

(b) ... so debarkation may well become a non-issue very quickly.

(c) ... in the interim, there is no commercial reason for the insurers who do not currently cover it to change their stance.

(d) and, while a few (maybe 100) members of this board might be aware of the issue and concerned by it, indications are that it's not an issue that is impacting on bookings in the round by UK cruisers, certainly for Cunard, https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/cunard-sees-strongest-bookings-decade-summer-2023-itineraries and, if not for them, it's probably fair to extrapolate, not for P&O either.  So, there's no incentive for cruise lines to change their stance / make a more definitive statement about what their stance is either.

Sadly, therefore, I fear that the momentum will reduce quickly, and before further substantive progress is made.

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Cunard, https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/cunard-sees-strongest-bookings-decade-summer-2023-itineraries

Great PR but are these real new bookings or the result of all the moved bookings filtering through and two years of pent up demand, particularly from the US travellers who are a large amount of Cunard's customer base? A great spin on words can make things look brilliant on the surface but a deeper look might indicate something a little less sensational. As a Diamond Cunard passenger I'm very doubtful.  The Grills are filled by a loyal international band of cruisers and are normally in short supply on any launch.  If things are so good I wouldn't expect to see the very rarely available single cabins on QM2 voyages still available in the numbers they are.  With the new Queen Anne voyages going on sale in May the cynic in me says this is an easy way to whip up a frenzy amongst their prospective customers for that ship.  There was no reports of record P&O sales on their last release if I recall correctly?

 

You are right about travel restrictions easing in the EU for land based travel but it remains to be seen if they remember to do anything about the rules on cruising.  I hope you are right but it will only take one variant to arrive and things could go array once more while these rules are still in place.

 

Meanwhile no harm done in waiting to see what HE and their associates have to say.  If it is so easily disregarded why have they expended such a lot of time in the past few weeks dealing with one irate individual.  Whilst I happily share my communications and research on these boards I have not held myself out to the insurance companies as a representative of others, only myself and my family.  My instinct tells me they are not making all this effort without a reason, they could have just ignored me and not engaged on the issue.  

 

 

[bee-ess]

Megabear2 , Thanks for all your efforts trying to resolve this issue,  it is a ludicrous position  that no-one is prepared to take responsibility for and is still worrying with the Med season payments now due for some passengers and no obvious solution likely to happen quickly.

[terrierjohn]

14 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

Megabear2 , Thanks for all your efforts trying to resolve this issue,  it is a ludicrous position  that no-one is prepared to take responsibility for and is still worrying with the Med season payments now due for some passengers and no obvious solution likely to happen quickly.

I suspect that clarity is the last thing the insurance companies, or the cruise lines want. They prefer a grey area where their legal team can debate the merits of each case, then agree some sort of settlement without prejudice.