Update on P&O Insurance Issues

[clearblueseas]

5 minutes ago, clearblueseas said:

FCA following up Staysure

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I have this morning been invited by the FCA to make official complaints against Holiday Extras, Staysure, Avanti and Allclear. These are the insurers for my immediate family. Whilst happy to do this for the first three I am unsure if it will be productive as we know their underwriter is looking to amend the terms to show quarantine in the exclusions. I am thinking I may be better to write to the cruise line CEO offices (not just p&O) and ask them to comment directly on HE's last reply. That would cover most UK sailings apart from Marella who use a different insurer.

 

Any thoughts or indeed any contact details much appreciated. I'm out all day so nothing will happen until tomorrow whatever I do. Cheers!

If you are prepared to do so, I think that lodging official complaints would be beneficial, in that it would place extra pressure on the insurance companies/ underwriters to clearly identify what is and is not covered with regards to covid quarantine measures.

This in turn will have an impact on cruise companies, as it will force them to admit that they are abrogating their responsibilty of customer care, in the sense that they are relying on non-existent insurance cover to pay the costs of those passengers forced to disembark for non medical reasons.

[ann141]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I have this morning been invited by the FCA to make official complaints against Holiday Extras, Staysure, Avanti and Allclear. These are the insurers for my immediate family. Whilst happy to do this for the first three I am unsure if it will be productive as we know their underwriter is looking to amend the terms to show quarantine in the exclusions. I am thinking I may be better to write to the cruise line CEO offices (not just p&O) and ask them to comment directly on HE's last reply. That would cover most UK sailings apart from Marella who use a different insurer.

 

Any thoughts or indeed any contact details much appreciated. I'm out all day so nothing will happen until tomorrow whatever I do. Cheers!

I emailed the CEO of Saga recently and received a phone call from someone quite high up the following day.Dont want to post anything here but found it quite easy to find the email address using Google

[Snow Hill]

If you have be invited to make official complaints against the insurers you should, one of the FCA principle roles is protecting customers, in these cases it would appear from your posts that insurers have not been clear on what is included and what is excluded. If insurers are forced to clarify then the customer will be clear where they stand is disembarked at a port.

 

Once this is clear it will be down to cruise copies to fulfil their obligations to the passengers on their ships and again make it clear of the situation.

 

Hopefully in coming months restrictions will start to be lifted elsewhere and the disembarkation of passengers with Covid or close contacts can cease, but until that happens customers need protection. 

[bee-ess]

I wrote to Staysure as follows and got a pretty unhelpful reply -

 

We have a Staysure Annual Worldwide Travel Insurance Policy and have a specific question regarding a Cruise we plan to take to the Canary Islands.

 

I understand that if myself or my wife test Positive for Covid-19 that we will be quarantined ashore in Spain as that is the current procedure as per the current Spanish Covid directive. What is not clear is if one of us tests positive and the other negative, are we both still covered for the cost of quarantine and repatriation once the quarantine ends on our joint policy with Staysure?

 

I also have the same question regarding cover if one or both of us have to quarantine ashore because we are deemed to be a ‘close-contact’ of someone who tests positive but we test negative.

 

This appears to be a Travel Insurance grey-area regarding cruises calling at Spanish ports with some people reporting that their Travel Insurance companies did not cover them in these circumstances and that they also had no recourse to reclaim costs from the cruise line.

 

I would assume that as we have both Cruise Cover and Covid-19 Cover that we are covered for the scenarios described above, please can you confirm that we will be covered for either of the above scenarios.

 

REPLY

 

Thank you for your email.
 
Whilst we would certainly cover Emergency Medical and Repatriation expenses as per your chosen policy limits for any insured traveller who contracts Covid19 whilst travelling on an insured trip, any cover for additional travellers or where you are deemed a close contact would need to be authorised by our medical officer.
 
If this situation were to arise, we would just ask that you called our 24hour medical assistance team on the contact number provided in your policy documents in order to discuss how we can help.

[bee-ess]

And a follow up letter and reply

 

Thank you for your reply to my query but it does not really answer my question.

 

There seems to be a ‘hole’ in our insurance cover that you cannot confirm is covered. There is a real risk that the situation that I have described in my original question can and does happen and there is no reimbursement of the substantial costs that are covered seemingly by either the insurance company or by the cruise line.

 

If the cruise line deem we need to be quarantined as a spouse/partner or as a close contact and test negative for Covid-19 whilst cruising in Spain then it has to be in Spain and not on the ship as per Spanish rules. At this point we would be offloaded and passed on to our Insurance Company and if we are not covered will have to pay substantial costs for quarantine and repatriation.

 

We need to know before travel if we would be covered as either a negative testing spouse/partner or as a negative testing close contact as there are substantial costs involved and is a factor in deciding if we decide to take the cruise or not. 

 

From reading experiences of other cruisers this seems to be a situation that is uninsurable and one that has not been fully realised by either cruise companies or travel insurance companies.

 

Please could you give me a clearer explanation of what would happen to us if this unfortunate situation happened to us and also if there is anyway we can insure ourselves against this risk.

 

Reply from Staysure

 

Thankyou for your reply
 
I can only apologise that I am unable to give a clearer answer on your cover.
As it stands, we only cover an affected traveller that has contracted Covid19. As mentioned, any scenario's outside of this remit, would need to be discussed with our medical officer at the time and handled on a case by case basis.
 
This requirement from the cruise companies has been flagged to our underwriter in order to review our policies and how that affects what we offer. However, we are still awaiting an outcome and can only confirm our current cover at the moment.
 
I do completely understand the need to understand the cover available to you before you travel and once again I can only apologise that this is not currently something I can confirm for you.
 
Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience.

 

 

 

 

[Megabear2]

6 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

And a follow up letter and reply

 

Thank you for your reply to my query but it does not really answer my question.

 

There seems to be a ‘hole’ in our insurance cover that you cannot confirm is covered. There is a real risk that the situation that I have described in my original question can and does happen and there is no reimbursement of the substantial costs that are covered seemingly by either the insurance company or by the cruise line.

 

If the cruise line deem we need to be quarantined as a spouse/partner or as a close contact and test negative for Covid-19 whilst cruising in Spain then it has to be in Spain and not on the ship as per Spanish rules. At this point we would be offloaded and passed on to our Insurance Company and if we are not covered will have to pay substantial costs for quarantine and repatriation.

 

We need to know before travel if we would be covered as either a negative testing spouse/partner or as a negative testing close contact as there are substantial costs involved and is a factor in deciding if we decide to take the cruise or not. 

 

From reading experiences of other cruisers this seems to be a situation that is uninsurable and one that has not been fully realised by either cruise companies or travel insurance companies.

 

Please could you give me a clearer explanation of what would happen to us if this unfortunate situation happened to us and also if there is anyway we can insure ourselves against this risk.

 

Reply from Staysure

 

Thankyou for your reply
 
I can only apologise that I am unable to give a clearer answer on your cover.
As it stands, we only cover an affected traveller that has contracted Covid19. As mentioned, any scenario's outside of this remit, would need to be discussed with our medical officer at the time and handled on a case by case basis.
 
This requirement from the cruise companies has been flagged to our underwriter in order to review our policies and how that affects what we offer. However, we are still awaiting an outcome and can only confirm our current cover at the moment.
 
I do completely understand the need to understand the cover available to you before you travel and once again I can only apologise that this is not currently something I can confirm for you.
 
Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience.

 

 

 

 

They are acknowledging they have got the underwriters on it and are speaking to the cruise lines. A giant step in the right direction.

 

The FCA investigation should help as well but we need them to put their foot on the pedal.  We need to apply more heat.

 

Its remarkably quiet from the cruise lines, time to chase and do as we have done previously by as many individuals as possible letting them know about Staysure and HE replies.

[clearblueseas]

Out of interest this appeared on YouTube re Princess cruises. Whilst I realise it’s for the American market, why can’t our cruise lines do the same.

 

quote.

[Interestedcruisefan]

9 minutes ago, clearblueseas said:

Out of interest this appeared on YouTube re Princess cruises. Whilst I realise it’s for the American market, why can’t our cruise lines do the same.

 

quote.

Does that need to say (even if your immediate travel party test negative) or are we assuming that's what it implies?

[clearblueseas]

All so complicated.

[Megabear2]

8 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Does that need to say (even if your immediate travel party test negative) or are we assuming that's what it implies?

It does not. It refers to Princesses special add on cover. I've already looked into it.  Under US law passengers can buy various add on insurance cover to run alongside their normal contract of carriage. I believe Cunard, for instance, offer a product called Cunard Care. No doubt Molecrochip can give a better explanation.

 

This Princess policy is a little like the one RCI and Celebrity were offering under their special Covid protocols.

[clearblueseas]

Thanks Megabear2. You’ve certainly done a lot of research.

 

No reply from P & O yet after well over a week and follow up letters.

[bee-ess]

45 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Does that need to say (even if your immediate travel party test negative) or are we assuming that's what it implies?

Posted in error

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by bee-ess

[lindyloo22]

I called my insurance co today (Allclear), after them explaining it all to me twice I’m still none the wiser she did tell me I can find it all in the booklet.

A figure of £2000. Was mentioned a couple of times for isolation. Going to send email see if that answer is more clear.

I wish these insurance companies would talk in layman’s terms so we could understand.

[Megabear2]

2 minutes ago, lindyloo22 said:

I called my insurance co today (Allclear), after them explaining it all to me twice I’m still none the wiser she did tell me I can find it all in the booklet.

A figure of £2000. Was mentioned a couple of times for isolation. Going to send email see if that answer is more clear.

I wish these insurance companies would talk in layman’s terms so we could understand.

You have £2,000 of cover Lindyloo. Theres a post I made above where its highlighted in yellow.  Not full cover but much better than most.

[Megabear2]

Sadly just lost two more of my April travelling companions due to this situation.  My brother and sister in law who are insured with Holiday Extras have just cancelled losing all their money as they were worried about offloading due to my sister in law's difficulty with flying due to ear problems.  Very sad, our group has gone from 10 to 6 in just over a month - my sister cancelled at final payment date as she was worried she would miss her son's wedding in May if she became ill.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Megabear2

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Sadly just lost two more of my April travelling companions due to this situation.  My brother and sister in law who are insured with Holiday Extras have just cancelled losing all their money as they were worried about offloading due to my sister in law's difficulty with flying due to ear problems.  Very sad, our group has gone from 10 to 6 in just over a month - my sister cancelled at final payment date as she was worried she would miss her son's wedding in May if she became ill.

Wise after the event, but was there not a possibility that she might have been in close contact with someone with Covid a day or two before her cruise ? These strange things can happen, and then she would have got FCC. 

[lindyloo22]

Thanks Megabear I have just finished a live chat with them and they did confirm this as you say better then most. I just wished these policy were a bit easier to understand. Sorry to hear about your family having to cancel.

[Megabear2]

31 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Wise after the event, but was there not a possibility that she might have been in close contact with someone with Covid a day or two before her cruise ? These strange things can happen, and then she would have got FCC. 

Too honest for her own good.  She's hoping things are better by December for her much wanted Arcadia Northern lights cruise.  Tried to ask P&O if they'd allow the money to switch as it was a genuine reason but they wouldn't have it I'm afraid.

 

I have FCA news which I will post shortly just awaiting an email from them.

[wowzz]

16 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Too honest for her own good

Which is more than you can say about P&O at the moment !

[Edith1950]

Thank you Megabear2 for highlighting this problem and all the work you have done. On Monday I emailed my Travel Insurance Company Barclays Travel Pack. I quoted P&Os updated T&Cs of 12 January 2022 and asked the 3 questions you advised with a Yes or No answer. The reply I received today didn't reply in the way I had asked. What I found interesting was that if one or both of us had tested positive for Covid in the past 12 months we wouldn't be covered and would need to speak to the Risk Assessment Team to be assessed if we could be covered. Thinking on this is probably the same as normal when you have a change in your health you have to inform them. Luckily we haven't had Covid but I'm not sure if we had and recovered in say a week or two would I have thought it necessary to inform them as it is not a permanent condition. In the email a Travel Pack policy booklet was sent but it's the same as I have December 2020 and obviously doesn't take into account of where we are now. The email received is as follows:

Thank you for your recent contact request form.

 I can confirm if an insured person tests positive for Covid-19 on a trip, the policy provides medical cover to £10,000,000 per person. This is providing there has not been a positive test result within the last 12 months which we have excluded from cover. If somebody has tested positive, please call our medical risk assessment team on 0800 158 2688 who will assess if we are able to cover Covid-19.  

 

The insurance will also provide cover for additional travel/accommodation expenses until you can get home if you are in self-isolation. If the whole family need to self-isolate due to being a close contact, we will provide cover for each insured person. If the whole family is not required to self-isolate, we will cover an adult to stay with a child. 

 

To request a confirmation of cover document should the cruise company ask for it please follow the link below. You will be asked to create a password before submission at the bottom of the form, please take a note of this.

 

https://www.aviva.co.uk/barclaystravelproof

 

Yours Sincerely,

[cruising.mark.uk]

9 minutes ago, Edith1950 said:

Thank you Megabear2 for highlighting this problem and all the work you have done. On Monday I emailed my Travel Insurance Company Barclays Travel Pack. I quoted P&Os updated T&Cs of 12 January 2022 and asked the 3 questions you advised with a Yes or No answer. The reply I received today didn't reply in the way I had asked. What I found interesting was that if one or both of us had tested positive for Covid in the past 12 months we wouldn't be covered and would need to speak to the Risk Assessment Team to be assessed if we could be covered. Thinking on this is probably the same as normal when you have a change in your health you have to inform them. Luckily we haven't had Covid but I'm not sure if we had and recovered in say a week or two would I have thought it necessary to inform them as it is not a permanent condition.

Do you think they mean they won't cover you if you've had a positive test in the last 12 months and not told them or they won't cover you if you've had a positive test in the last 12 months full stop?

 

If the latter, that is a bit of a worry if other insurance companies take a similar line (as far as I'm aware, it's not in my policy but I'll have another look!) because it will effectively make anyone who has previously had Covid uninsurable for costs associated with catching Covid while travelling...

[Megabear2]

Excellent news on the quarantine Edith1950.  Again this is a major insurer (Aviva).  The 5% I keep referring to are all the big insurers or are underwritten by them, hence the bank packages offering cover.

 

The problem seems to lie directly with those advertising as "specialist" insurers, ie for the over 70's or medically impaired.  

 

These companies found a slot in the UK market and filled it with travel policies prior to the pandemic.  Quite literally anyone could link with an underwriter and sell policies for travel.  The reason we hear so many complaints on RIP off Britain etc is because no one is meant to claim on these policies!  

 

I'm surprised at the Covid clause. However here is a very big red flag to everyone with an annual or rolling contract.  All I can say is ensure you inform your insurers of absolutely any illness, injury etc whilst under their cover.  I've said it before but I personally know someone who had to argue over £50,000 medical claim for a heart attack because he hadn't told the insurer he had been xrayed and examined after a rugby injury.

 

Golden rule- check, check and keep on checking as these policies change regularly. My BIL found out the other day that his HE annual policy bought last July is totally different to what he purchased by he hadn't realised because he's meant to log in to an account to check.

[Edith1950]

I think that the onus is on me/us to inform them as you would with any change to your health. As I started to reply Megabear2 replied and has advised everyone to tell your insurance company about any change whatsoever however minor it may be. I really appreciate all your help.

[zap99]

4 minutes ago, Edith1950 said:

I think that the onus is on me/us to inform them as you would with any change to your health. As I started to reply Megabear2 replied and has advised everyone to tell your insurance company about any change whatsoever however minor it may be. I really appreciate all your help.

Lots of things to be aware of. If you have been to see the GP about an issue and you have been referred to the hospital, or a specialist, you are required to inform your insurance company. You may not be covered for anything whist awaiting diagnosis. Nowadays you could be on that waiting list for yonks. Be careful, very careful.