Update on P&O Insurance Issues

[clearblueseas]

I had one reply from P & O but all they did was cut and pasted their covid protocol from their FAQS.

 

A week ago I followed this up asking for answers to the questions specifically asked. No reply to date. Have just asked for a reply this afternoon.

 

More than likely the insurance companies will now include a clause for non covid cases but that, as you say, really won’t do much for the problem we have with being offloaded without insurance. 

[Megabear2]

18 minutes ago, clearblueseas said:

I had one reply from P & O but all they did was cut and pasted their covid protocol from their FAQS.

 

A week ago I followed this up asking for answers to the questions specifically asked. No reply to date. Have just asked for a reply this afternoon.

 

More than likely the insurance companies will now include a clause for non covid cases but that, as you say, really won’t do much for the problem we have with being offloaded without insurance. 

If nothing happens once the insurance says no cover it will inevitably hit the press which I'm sure they'll want to avoid. Just keep on, they can't ignore forever.

[terrierjohn]

43 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

If nothing happens once the insurance says no cover it will inevitably hit the press which I'm sure they'll want to avoid. Just keep on, they can't ignore forever.

I am deeply disappointed in P&O/Carnival, but I suppose it just reinforces my long held view that their customer service is extremely third rate when compared to RCI, and continues to make me mourn P&O Princess's decision not to merge with RCI and and to greedily accept Ted Arisons dollar.

[Megabear2]

Just found this, but it still doesn't mention negative testing :

 

QUOTE:

 

Shoreside

If you test positive for COVID-19 during your cruise, you will be reimbursed for expenses, not covered by insurance policies, for COVID-related medical care, including those incurred during any medically required post-disembarkation quarantine period. This includes air change fees if onward travel plans need to change.

We’ll designate a Dedicated Family Assistance liaison for care and logistical shoreside support until you or the member of your immediate travel party is medically cleared to travel home.

Any shoreside meals will be covered by a daily meal allowance, which you’ll learn about from the family assistance coordinator when you disembark. (No receipts required.)

We’ll also offer assistance opening COVID-related insurance claims (for those who are eligible under their insurance policies or travel protection plans).

 

Unquote 

 

The above is Princess UK policy!

Edited January 21, 2022 by Megabear2

[clearblueseas]

This may have been mentioned before but what I don’t understand is the Spanish health measures for starting cruises May 18th 2021 re covid  (can’t find a more up to date site) state “ the costs derived from these actions will be covered by the shipping company directly or through an insurance company”. This includes any disembarked passenger !

 

so why are they passing the buck ?

[clearblueseas]

Looks like the above does apply until the end of covid.

 

[Megabear2]

They may well not be passing the buck as they've told me unofficially no one has been out of pocket.  What they aren't prepared to do is give peace of mind to passengers by stating it publicly so all risk currently comes back on the passenger.  All they need to do is say we will pay if your insurer doesn't cover you but they won't.  I understand they have previously allowed their insurers to argue with passengers' ones before helping.

 

They don't seem to understand that when you're turfed off and your accommodation sails off into the sunset you don't want to be piggy in the middle between insurers and more importantly signing your life away and paying out with no idea when you might get the money back.

 

Hopefully if the insurers are now having to be clear about exclusion clauses the cruise lines will have to rethink things and they won't be able to get insurers arguing with each other because the event will clearly not be covered.

[clearblueseas]

5 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

They may well not be passing the buck as they've told me unofficially no one has been out of pocket.  What they aren't prepared to do is give peace of mind to passengers by stating it publicly so all risk currently comes back on the passenger.  All they need to do is say we will pay if your insurer doesn't cover you but they won't.  I understand they have previously allowed their insurers to argue with passengers' ones before helping.

 

They don't seem to understand that when you're turfed off and your accommodation sails off into the sunset you don't want to be piggy in the middle between insurers and more importantly signing your life away and paying out with no idea when you might get the money back.

 

Hopefully if the insurers are now having to be clear about exclusion clauses the cruise lines will have to rethink things and they won't be able to get insurers arguing with each other because the event will clearly not be covered.

 

[clearblueseas]

Thank you Megabear2. I understand fully now.

 

 

[cruising.mark.uk]

8 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

They may well not be passing the buck as they've told me unofficially no one has been out of pocket.  What they aren't prepared to do is give peace of mind to passengers by stating it publicly so all risk currently comes back on the passenger.  All they need to do is say we will pay if your insurer doesn't cover you but they won't.  I understand they have previously allowed their insurers to argue with passengers' ones before helping.

 

Personally, I don't think they can be blamed for not specifying that they will meet costs as a last resort now that - as this thread has shown - it is possible to buy insurance with the requisite cover.  Otherwise there will be no incentive for passengers to obtain suitable insurance.  It is the responsibility of passengers to ensure they have adequate cover.  What the cruise line needs to do, in my view, is (a) make sure passengers are aware of the risk so that they can make an informed decision as to whether or not they need to purchase insurance that covers this specific risk and (b) make it very clear that their recommended insurer does not provide this cover.  I think they have gone a long way towards meeting (a), but they urgently need to address (b) either by stating that clearly on their website or (preferably) by persuading HE to cover this eventuality or switching their recommended insurer to one who does.

[wowzz]

9 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

it is possible to buy insurance with the requisite cover. 

But many of us have annual policies. Are we meant to buy another policy ?

And the P&O recommended insurer dies not provide sufficient cover  - an indictment in itself.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Personally, I don't think they can be blamed for not specifying that they will meet costs as a last resort now that - as this thread has shown - it is possible to buy insurance with the requisite cover.  Otherwise there will be no incentive for passengers to obtain suitable insurance.  It is the responsibility of passengers to ensure they have adequate cover.  What the cruise line needs to do, in my view, is (a) make sure passengers are aware of the risk so that they can make an informed decision as to whether or not they need to purchase insurance that covers this specific risk and (b) make it very clear that their recommended insurer does not provide this cover.  I think they have gone a long way towards meeting (a), but they urgently need to address (b) either by stating that clearly on their website or (preferably) by persuading HE to cover this eventuality or switching their recommended insurer to one who does.

Good in principle, not so good in practice.  Checking insurers for those over 70 and with health conditions like heart problems not one policy on sale is available to them.

 

Do you suggest they should not sail - that's an enormous knock to more traditional and expensive cruise lines.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Megabear2

[cruising.mark.uk]

Sadly, I think we might either have to pay more on our current policies or to obtain new ones.  But, that is an issue for us and our insurance companies, not one for the cruise line. 

 

This problem is not unique to cruises, it is related to travel, particularly to Spain.  I think we need to be reasonable in our expectations. 

 

What if my wife and I book flights and a week's accommodation in Spain via BA and we feel unwell and get tested towards the end of the week, with one of us positive and one not?  If the Spanish authorities insist we both quarantine, would it be reasonable to expect BA to meet all the additional costs or would BA rather merely be expected to get us home when we are out of quarantine with other costs / arrangements made by our insurance company?  Most current policies wouldn't cover that, as we know.  So, either we would have to meet the costs ourselves or we would have to ensure our insurance policy covered it, if we considered it a risk.  Why should we have different expectations in respect of a cruise line than we would have of any other type of travel / holiday provider?

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Sadly, I think we might either have to pay more on our current policies or to obtain new ones.  But, that is an issue for us and our insurance companies, not one for the cruise line. 

 

This problem is not unique to cruises, it is related to travel, particularly to Spain.  I think we need to be reasonable in our expectations. 

 

What if my wife and I book flights and a week's accommodation in Spain via BA and we feel unwell and get tested towards the end of the week, with one of us positive and one not?  If the Spanish authorities insist we both quarantine, would it be reasonable to expect BA to meet all the additional costs or would BA rather merely be expected to get us home when we are out of quarantine with other costs / arrangements made by our insurance company?  Most current policies wouldn't cover that, as we know.  So, either we would have to meet the costs ourselves or we would have to ensure our insurance policy covered it, if we considered it a risk.  Why should we have different expectations in respect of a cruise line than we would have of any other type of travel / holiday provider?

If it's a land based holiday quarantine under Spanish law is free so no problem for you or BA.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Megabear2

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Personally, I don't think they can be blamed for not specifying that they will meet costs as a last resort now that - as this thread has shown - it is possible to buy insurance with the requisite cover.  Otherwise there will be no incentive for passengers to obtain suitable insurance.  It is the responsibility of passengers to ensure they have adequate cover.  What the cruise line needs to do, in my view, is (a) make sure passengers are aware of the risk so that they can make an informed decision as to whether or not they need to purchase insurance that covers this specific risk and (b) make it very clear that their recommended insurer does not provide this cover.  I think they have gone a long way towards meeting (a), but they urgently need to address (b) either by stating that clearly on their website or (preferably) by persuading HE to cover this eventuality or switching their recommended insurer to one who does.

I hope if you need to make a claim that you are correct, insurance companies are not known for their generosity, and they can generally be relied upon to find a waiver in their policy which was well hidden.

 

[terrierjohn]

7 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Sadly, I think we might either have to pay more on our current policies or to obtain new ones.  But, that is an issue for us and our insurance companies, not one for the cruise line. 

 

This problem is not unique to cruises, it is related to travel, particularly to Spain.  I think we need to be reasonable in our expectations. 

 

What if my wife and I book flights and a week's accommodation in Spain via BA and we feel unwell and get tested towards the end of the week, with one of us positive and one not?  If the Spanish authorities insist we both quarantine, would it be reasonable to expect BA to meet all the additional costs or would BA rather merely be expected to get us home when we are out of quarantine with other costs / arrangements made by our insurance company?  Most current policies wouldn't cover that, as we know.  So, either we would have to meet the costs ourselves or we would have to ensure our insurance policy covered it, if we considered it a risk.  Why should we have different expectations in respect of a cruise line than we would have of any other type of travel / holiday provider?

Not relevant to our discussions, if you want a direct comparison it has to be a package holiday, cruises are considered in the same way as package holidays. In those circumstances if your insurer refuses to pay all you costs, then in all likelihood your travel company will get you home.

[cruising.mark.uk]

3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Not relevant to our discussions, if you want a direct comparison it has to be a package holiday, cruises are considered in the same way as package holidays. In those circumstances if your insurer refuses to pay all you costs, then in all likelihood your travel company will get you home.

I was describing a BA package.  But, I didn't realise what MegaBear said in post 126.  If that's true, then maybe our beef is with the Spanish government and why it treats cruises differently from other types of holiday.  If it affected all, there would be more incentive for insurance companies to provide cover, but given that the number of UK cruisers visiting Spain must be tiny in comparison to those who visit by other means, I guess that incentive will be much reduced.

 

In relation to your post 127, I agree.  We will go on our Iona cruise in Feb with our existing annual insurance, which does not cover this.  I know everyone's circumstances are different, but our risk calculation makes the cruise viable given that, in the unlikely circumstances we are debarked, there is every indication that P&O will meet the costs.  And if they don't, we are lucky enough that it won't be a problem.  I know that won't be the case for many others, which is why everyone will make their own risk calculation and act accordingly.  But none of this changes my suggestion that we need to ensure our expectations of cruise lines are reasonable.

[Harry Peterson]

@Megabear2

 

Hi Megabear - not strictly relevant here, but in the old thread on this subject I took up your suggestion that Saga should be pushed on their statement that they didn’t offload COVID-negative passengers.

 

As suspected, they do.  See exchange below. To add, if you wish, to your very comprehensive and helpful fund of knowledge 

 

 

“Thanks so much for your helpful reply.

I'm still a little puzzled, though, because I understand from another cruise line that Spain (and Spanish islands) require, following the relevant EU Directive, that not only passengers testing positive be offloaded - but also any close contacts, even if those close contacts are testing negative.  I understand that other EU ports may also be following that same line.

This will, of course, override any policies or protocols operated by individual cruise companies, such as Saga.

Are you quite sure that your statement below ('We would not disembark you if you have not produced a positive Covid test') is correct, please?  It would seem to be at odds with the policies being operated by some, if not all, EU countries - and certainly Spain and the Spanish islands.

Kind regards”

 

 

 

“Thank you for your recent email to us, I was awaiting a reply from my colleague as I needed to check the procedures with him and this is what he has advised me :

Dependent on local health authorities we could potentially have to disembark a close contact of the passenger - Spain on our most recent cruise have made us disembark passengers when we wanted to keep them in the isolation zone.

I hope this information has been of assistance to you and if I can be of any further assistance then please do not hesitate to contact me.


Kind Regards,

Jemma O’Leary
Saga Holidays & Cruises”


 

[Megabear2]

17 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

@Megabear2

 

Hi Megabear - not strictly relevant here, but in the old thread on this subject I took up your suggestion that Saga should be pushed on their statement that they didn’t offload COVID-negative passengers.

 

As suspected, they do.  See exchange below. To add, if you wish, to your very comprehensive and helpful fund of knowledge 

 

 

“Thanks so much for your helpful reply.

I'm still a little puzzled, though, because I understand from another cruise line that Spain (and Spanish islands) require, following the relevant EU Directive, that not only passengers testing positive be offloaded - but also any close contacts, even if those close contacts are testing negative.  I understand that other EU ports may also be following that same line.

This will, of course, override any policies or protocols operated by individual cruise companies, such as Saga.

Are you quite sure that your statement below ('We would not disembark you if you have not produced a positive Covid test') is correct, please?  It would seem to be at odds with the policies being operated by some, if not all, EU countries - and certainly Spain and the Spanish islands.

Kind regards”

 

 

 

“Thank you for your recent email to us, I was awaiting a reply from my colleague as I needed to check the procedures with him and this is what he has advised me :

Dependent on local health authorities we could potentially have to disembark a close contact of the passenger - Spain on our most recent cruise have made us disembark passengers when we wanted to keep them in the isolation zone.

I hope this information has been of assistance to you and if I can be of any further assistance then please do not hesitate to contact me.


Kind Regards,

Jemma O’Leary
Saga Holidays & Cruises”


 

Thank you Harry.  Very interesting.  Put simply they are going to have to do it.   We really do need to get urgent attention to this from the cruise lines with the Spring season upon us.  Looking at how things are going in Europe they are tightening not loosening their rules.  This May 2021 regulation that is causing offloading needs updating, I feel for the cruise lines really.  They are on a hiding to nothing, but we passengers seem to be getting the double whammy.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Megabear2

[Megabear2]

23 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I was describing a BA package.  But, I didn't realise what MegaBear said in post 126.  If that's true, then maybe our beef is with the Spanish government and why it treats cruises differently from other types of holiday.  If it affected all, there would be more incentive for insurance companies to provide cover, but given that the number of UK cruisers visiting Spain must be tiny in comparison to those who visit by other means, I guess that incentive will be much reduced.

 

In relation to your post 127, I agree.  We will go on our Iona cruise in Feb with our existing annual insurance, which does not cover this.  I know everyone's circumstances are different, but our risk calculation makes the cruise viable given that, in the unlikely circumstances we are debarked, there is every indication that P&O will meet the costs.  And if they don't, we are lucky enough that it won't be a problem.  I know that won't be the case for many others, which is why everyone will make their own risk calculation and act accordingly.  But none of this changes my suggestion that we need to ensure our expectations of cruise lines are reasonable.

You are of course right. I also will take my booked cruise in April, I'm one of the lucky ones I'm covered by my insurance. Doesn't stop me worrying about the other 7 on my booking.

 

I do expect the cruise lines to do something even if it's to discuss with the authorities how to update this policy.

 

I think the news coming in will show if a grip isnt taken there will be hundreds going,off in the hect free months and very little risk uf they are vaccinated. 

[clearblueseas]

I do feel sorry for the cruise lines now that a lot more information has come to the fore and that the crux of the matter is the Spanish and the EU demanding the disembarkation of covid, non covid passengers

 

Perhaps if this wasn’t stipulated the cruise lines would quarantine us onboard. Totally more acceptable which to be quite honest, was our understanding when our cruise was booked. Now we’ve been put in a very difficult situation if the inevitable happens.
 

 

[Megabear2]

19 minutes ago, clearblueseas said:

I do feel sorry for the cruise lines now that a lot more information has come to the fore and that the crux of the matter is the Spanish and the EU demanding the disembarkation of covid, non covid passengers

 

Perhaps if this wasn’t stipulated the cruise lines would quarantine us onboard. Totally more acceptable which to be quite honest, was our understanding when our cruise was booked. Now we’ve been put in a very difficult situation if the inevitable happens.
 

 

Unfortunately doesn't take away their responsibility, it is whether we like it or not is on us.  Doesn't matter if we are British, French, German or whatever we have to get off. Italians in Vicenza point in question- they had to go. Law might be an ass but ...

Edited January 22, 2022 by Megabear2

[clearblueseas]

EU directive for cruise ships.

 

 

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

We really do need to get urgent attention to this from the cruise lines with the Spring season upon us

And, with the European cruising season starting, there will be many American cruisers on board. 

Without wanting to generalise,  but looking at other forums,  most Americans seem to think that they can quarantine onboard,  or choose a hotel for their isolation if required. We all know that will  not happen.  

Once reality sets in, it will be calamitous for the cruise industry.  In some ways,  the negative impact on the profitable US market might finally make the cruise lines come clean with regards to what actually happens  if you test positive.

 

[ann141]

4 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

@Megabear2

 

Hi Megabear - not strictly relevant here, but in the old thread on this subject I took up your suggestion that Saga should be pushed on their statement that they didn’t offload COVID-negative passengers.

 

As suspected, they do.  See exchange below. To add, if you wish, to your very comprehensive and helpful fund of knowledge 

 

 

“Thanks so much for your helpful reply.

I'm still a little puzzled, though, because I understand from another cruise line that Spain (and Spanish islands) require, following the relevant EU Directive, that not only passengers testing positive be offloaded - but also any close contacts, even if those close contacts are testing negative.  I understand that other EU ports may also be following that same line.

This will, of course, override any policies or protocols operated by individual cruise companies, such as Saga.

Are you quite sure that your statement below ('We would not disembark you if you have not produced a positive Covid test') is correct, please?  It would seem to be at odds with the policies being operated by some, if not all, EU countries - and certainly Spain and the Spanish islands.

Kind regards”

 

 

 

“Thank you for your recent email to us, I was awaiting a reply from my colleague as I needed to check the procedures with him and this is what he has advised me :

Dependent on local health authorities we could potentially have to disembark a close contact of the passenger - Spain on our most recent cruise have made us disembark passengers when we wanted to keep them in the isolation zone.

I hope this information has been of assistance to you and if I can be of any further assistance then please do not hesitate to contact me.


Kind Regards,

Jemma O’Leary
Saga Holidays & Cruises”


 

It for this reason that I deferred the Saga cruise that I should have been on currently as although Saga had stated that people would only be offloaded if medically necessary, I knew that Spanish ports insisted on it.Spanish policy is not Sagas fault but I don't think it is clear from the info they give you that this will happen.I really think that with a lot of companies it depends who you speak to on the phone as to what you are told and one reason I prefer to email.