My Opinion

[leerathje]

Well, looks like HAL thinks my opinion matters!  

 

Wasn't there a thread a bit ago from those that were still booked?

 

L.

 

 

 

[TwinMommyByGrace]

I hope you reply.  I've been wanting to write HAL to let them know how ridiculous their testing requirement is (not that I'm sure they'd listen). Think about this...someone tests 2 days prior, tests negative. They then go to a crowded airport, sit on a plane (with many untested passengers), take a cab/uber/public transportation to a hotel and then another form of travel to the cruise port (not to mention if they go out to eat or sight see the day prior to boarding). By the time they board they have come in contact with hundreds, if not thousands, of people who could be covid positive. The 2 day testing requirement is just another unnecessary expense for us loyal cruisers.

[jimmy2x]

I canceled a 21 b to b in the Caribbean this year. Re-booked the same itinerary for next February on Rotterdam. Can only hope that COVID-19 will be history by then. Testing before flying out of Philly is fine but the risk of getting all the way to FLL and then testing positive is more than a little daunting. 

[jhannah]

I agree that the testing protocol is ridiculous right now. Proof of vaccine should be plenty. I think cruise lines are running scared of the CDC.

[AFNavigator]

9 minutes ago, jhannah said:

I agree that the testing protocol is ridiculous right now. Proof of vaccine should be plenty. I think cruise lines are running scared of the CDC.

The cruise lines aren't running scared of the CDC.  They are running scared of losing revenue paying passengers due to perception that they are the "floating petri dishes" many politicians keep accuse them of being.

 

The CDC decided to let its Conditional Sail Order expire and are now only issuing recommendations--as has been the case most of the fall anyway.  Cruise lines aren't trying to do less than those recommendations.  Rather, many going beyond some of the CDC recommendations in the interest of minimizing COVID spread onboard.  The last thing they want it to be the lead story on network news about having to turn around due to having an outbreak and being tagged as a "petri dish".  That's the sort of press that kills thousands of future bookings. 

 

If proof of vaccination is good enough, think of how many stories on this forum alone have been told about being denied boarding due to testing positive prior to the cruise.  All those people would have unknowingly (or knowingly apparently for some) boarded if testing had not been required.  Why then, some may ask, don't the cruise lines test at embarkation.  The answer probably comes down to cost and logistics of processing thousands of tests during the relatively short embarkation window.  Who pays for that added test and the workers to carry it out?  Likely us as a portside cost or rolled into higher booking prices. 

[zgscl]

3 hours ago, leerathje said:

Wasn't there a thread a bit ago from those that were still booked?

 

There was! It asked only if we had been boosted or not and whether we would be more or less likely to cruise if they had a booster requirement. 

 

Is this survey particularly detailed or  just the reason for cancellation?

[smlnd]

31 minutes ago, AFNavigator said:

The cruise lines aren't running scared of the CDC.  They are running scared of losing revenue paying passengers due to perception that they are the "floating petri dishes" many politicians keep accuse them of being.

 

The CDC decided to let its Conditional Sail Order expire and are now only issuing recommendations--as has been the case most of the fall anyway.  Cruise lines aren't trying to do less than those recommendations.  Rather, many going beyond some of the CDC recommendations in the interest of minimizing COVID spread onboard.  The last thing they want it to be the lead story on network news about having to turn around due to having an outbreak and being tagged as a "petri dish".  That's the sort of press that kills thousands of future bookings. 

 

If proof of vaccination is good enough, think of how many stories on this forum alone have been told about being denied boarding due to testing positive prior to the cruise.  All those people would have unknowingly (or knowingly apparently for some) boarded if testing had not been required.  Why then, some may ask, don't the cruise lines test at embarkation.  The answer probably comes down to cost and logistics of processing thousands of tests during the relatively short embarkation window.  Who pays for that added test and the workers to carry it out?  Likely us as a portside cost or rolled into higher booking prices. 

When we went on a Crystal Cruise last year, they tested everyone (free) at the port.  You waited for your results in the terminal and you could only board if you were negative. There were no cases of Covid on board but there were only 173 passengers on our cruise.  As you can see, they could not sustain this kind of service without going bankrupt. 

[Tigrou]

2 hours ago, AFNavigator said:

Why then, some may ask, don't the cruise lines test at embarkation.  The answer probably comes down to cost and logistics of processing thousands of tests during the relatively short embarkation window.  Who pays for that added test and the workers to carry it out?  Likely us as a portside cost or rolled into higher booking prices. 

 

Some cruise lines do test fairly large numbers of passengers at embarkation.  Fred Olsen cruises sailing from the UK test all passengers at the port, potentially over 1300 for their ships Bolette and Borealis (ex-HAL).  My experience was that it was just another part of the check in process and saved me having to arrange it and get it done in the 2 days leading up to the cruise.  It also meant there was consistency, with all passengers having taken the same test, at the same standard, immediately prior to boarding.

Also I believe Princess tested all passengers at the port for their UK-only cruises last summer.  The ship was running at reduced capacity but still around 1400 passengers.

From recent reports I've seen, many cruises from the US on HAL and other lines are currently sailing with fewer than 1000 passengers.  Full capacity 4000+ numbers may not be practical, but while passengers numbers are lower it should be possible for HAL to test everyone at the port.

Of course the cost will end up being paid by passengers, all costs do.  But passengers are currently paying anyway, to get the test done beforehand, both in money and inconvenience.

 

 

[Crazy For Cats]

I received this survey yesterday too.  I responded.  We cancelled because of their protocols.  IMHO masking on board with a vaccinated cruise is too much.  I also said that it is difficult to meet their current testing requirements.  Our recent encounter with Covid proved the point.

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I received this survey yesterday too.  I responded.  We cancelled because of their protocols.  IMHO masking on board with a vaccinated cruise is too much.  I also said that it is difficult to meet their current testing requirements.  Our recent encounter with Covid proved the point.

My monthly email to them is due February 1.   I have been saying the same thing.  Last month, significantly, they did not respond with condescension as they have been.  

[mightycruisequeen]

We got this survey too.  Glad they actually want to know why so many are canceling cruises. 

Do you suppose it's occurring to them that their current requirements of vaccination/masking/testing are sinking their profits?

 

[RICHARD@SEA]

If you think the requirements are too much, then stay home.  HAL / Carnivore just want to know how to fill ships - no matter the circumstances.  There are still thousands of unvaccinated people in the USA alone - which in of itself is ridiculous.  

HAL & all cruise lines should require triple vaccinations & have o the pier / pre boarding testing for all.

Its obvious covid outbreaks onboard do affect the cruise  - other passengers, itineraries & services. And thankfully there are ports that refuse docking due to covid onboard.

 

[Cruising-along]

9 hours ago, zgscl said:

Is this survey particularly detailed or  just the reason for cancellation?

It's just a few questions asking the reason for canceling.  In our case it had nothing to do with Covid, I'm happy with their protocols.  

[OmarOak]

39 minutes ago, mightycruisequeen said:

We got this survey too.  Glad they actually want to know why so many are canceling cruises. 

Do you suppose it's occurring to them that their current requirements of vaccination/masking/testing are sinking their profits?

 

...or do you suppose it's concern that vaccination/masking/testing requirements not being strict enough or being ignored by petulant passengers will put them needlessly at risk? I've cancelled two for that reason.

 

Sadly, my concern has been heightened by some of those posting on this forum.

 

Regardless, Cruise Lines are taking commercial risks - (alienate the cautious or alienate the unconcerned), publicity risks (the Petri dish comment earlier) and legal risks as they try to navigate through this.  

[Hlitner]

Surveys of those who cancel is nothing new in the industry although it sure does get more attention these days.  DW and I have seldom cancelled a cruise, but about 12 years ago we cancelled a HAL booking (for the Voyage of the Vikings cruise) for a few reasons.  At the time we were only 4 Star Mariners and had booked all of our cruises through several discount/high volume cruise agencies.  Although we had an assigned PCC, we never interacted with that person since we had no reason to book directly with HAL (or any other cruise line).  

 

A few days after we cancelled our HAL cruise we got a phone call from our PCC who wanted to know why we had cancelled our booking.  This was the first time we had ever heard our PCC or HAL (via a phone call) despite having nearly 400 days on the cruise line.  It took a cancellation to get some personal attention from HAL.  

 

By the way, we have no problem with the current HAL protocols.  We resumed travel over a year ago (we have no problem dealing with the increased risk of COVID) and resumed cruising last July (3 cruises totaling 44 days in the 2nd half of 2021).   We understand that no single part of a protocol will completely eliminate risk of COVID but that having protocols with multiple provisions work together to substantially reduce the risk of COVID.  So while vaccination may not be enough, when you combine vaccination with an active testing protocol and some onboard mitigation measures the odds of having COVID cases is reduced (not eliminated).

 

As to the vaccine issue, folks that want to cruise/travel internationally need to accept that vaccines are a requirement in much of the world.  If you cannot or will not comply  (which is your choice) you will simply need to find other alternatives to international travel and cruising.  You can protest and whine till the cats start to cry but vaccine mandates are actually becoming stronger and nearly universal (for international travel) and will likely stay that way for many years.  

 

One other thing for the "whiners."  Cruise lines need to meet vaccination and testing requirements in order to call at most ports of the world.  When we cruised (last October) on Seabourn out of Barbados we needed to be fully vaccinated and tested 5 times (2 PCR and 3 Antigen) on an 18 day trip.  On a recent 20 day Princess cruise (Caribbean) we only needed to be tested twice (and be fully vaccinated).  This is just the way it is and you either accept the program/rules or stay home.

 

Hank

[DrKoob]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Surveys of those who cancel is nothing new in the industry although it sure does get more attention these days.  DW and I have seldom cancelled a cruise, but about 12 years ago we cancelled a HAL booking (for the Voyage of the Vikings cruise) for a few reasons.  At the time we were only 4 Star Mariners and had booked all of our cruises through several discount/high volume cruise agencies.  Although we had an assigned PCC, we never interacted with that person since we had no reason to book directly with HAL (or any other cruise line).  

 

A few days after we cancelled our HAL cruise we got a phone call from our PCC who wanted to know why we had cancelled our booking.  This was the first time we had ever heard our PCC or HAL (via a phone call) despite having nearly 400 days on the cruise line.  It took a cancellation to get some personal attention from HAL.  

 

By the way, we have no problem with the current HAL protocols.  We resumed travel over a year ago (we have no problem dealing with the increased risk of COVID) and resumed cruising last July (3 cruises totaling 44 days in the 2nd half of 2021).   We understand that no single part of a protocol will completely eliminate risk of COVID but that having protocols with multiple provisions work together to substantially reduce the risk of COVID.  So while vaccination may not be enough, when you combine vaccination with an active testing protocol and some onboard mitigation measures the odds of having COVID cases is reduced (not eliminated).

 

As to the vaccine issue, folks that want to cruise/travel internationally need to accept that vaccines are a requirement in much of the world.  If you cannot or will not comply  (which is your choice) you will simply need to find other alternatives to international travel and cruising.  You can protest and whine till the cats start to cry but vaccine mandates are actually becoming stronger and nearly universal (for international travel) and will likely stay that way for many years.  

 

One other thing for the "whiners."  Cruise lines need to meet vaccination and testing requirements in order to call at most ports of the world.  When we cruised (last October) on Seabourn out of Barbados we needed to be fully vaccinated and tested 5 times (2 PCR and 3 Antigen) on an 18 day trip.  On a recent 20 day Princess cruise (Caribbean) we only needed to be tested twice (and be fully vaccinated).  This is just the way it is and you either accept the program/rules or stay home.

 

Hank

 

Hank, you are my new hero! Well said sir.

[Sherry H]

Yes Hank, well said!  I am currently on the Koningsdam Circle Hawaii cruise.   Tested at the pier and again on the ship 3 days later.  Not a choice for HAL.  Hawaii said "if you're coming you will test".

Ships must follow what the ports require! 

[oaktreerb]

I was on the wait list for two Hawaii cruises.  This is the first time I have been on a wait list and hadn’t expected to be given a booking # and pay a deposit.  For reasons other than Covid I cancelled but they included me in the survey.  I thought there were a lot of choices to choose from, I think HAL is testing the “waters” with Alaska cruises and more European cruises coming up.

 

I answered with my requirements for cruising, 7 day cruise round trip, no flight involved, everyone fully vaxed and tested.  That way if I test positive for some reason I can just head home (there should be no interim testing).  The quarantined people who have reported about the experience online are asymptomatic and on longer voyages.  They are so kind to share their experience and hopefully HAL will listen to their advice.

 

I know HAL is balancing many requirements from CDC, mariners, ports in the itinerary, staffing, etc , I am expecting some new updated information soon.   Would I cruise out of Florida or Texas?  Not at this time.  Will Vancouver accept cruise ships this year?  🤔🙏⛴

 

 

[Mary229]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

ne other thing for the "whiners."

No one is whining, We are stating an opinion.  Right now protocols are in flux and this is an optimal moment to state an opinion.     We don’t need to name call those who disagree with us. 

[Sherry H]

Yes Hank, well said!  I am currently on the Koningsdam Circle Hawaii cruise.   Tested at the pier and again on the ship 3 days later.  Not a choice for HAL.  Hawaii said "if you're coming you will test".

Ships must follow what the ports require! 

[Sherry H]

Everyone has a right to their opinion but not their own facts.  The fact is that the ships must follow the requirements of the port they are wishing to enter.

[mightycruisequeen]

1 hour ago, Sherry H said:

Everyone has a right to their opinion but not their own facts.  

The fact is that this thread is about Holland America asking for our opinions.  

[jeh10641]

20 hours ago, TwinMommyByGrace said:

I hope you reply.  I've been wanting to write HAL to let them know how ridiculous their testing requirement is (not that I'm sure they'd listen). Think about this...someone tests 2 days prior, tests negative. They then go to a crowded airport, sit on a plane (with many untested passengers), take a cab/uber/public transportation to a hotel and then another form of travel to the cruise port (not to mention if they go out to eat or sight see the day prior to boarding). By the time they board they have come in contact with hundreds, if not thousands, of people who could be covid positive. The 2 day testing requirement is just another unnecessary expense for us loyal cruisers.

Despite my trials and tribulations with testing (see below), I happy to do it (sort of). My tests were free even though they never found mine. My wife also was tested (arrived after trip started). No charges for either.

 

THUMBS DOWN COVID 19 TESTING

     Before we embarked, we were going to spend several days visiting relatives across the state of Florida. That presented us with our first problem: How do we get tested for COVID 19 before the trip? HAL recommended QUEST DIAGNOSTICS through their health protocols on HAL’S website.

     Our boarding date was Wednesday, December 1, 2021. Our boarding time changed several times but finalized at 1 PM. We were happy with the time.  Our cousins had synchronized their boarding time with ours and were happy with the time.

     We booked a date/time for our COVID 19 test through QUEST DIAGNOSTICS.  It was on Monday November 29, 2021 at 10 AM at a Walmart drive through pharmacy in Boynton Beach on Military Trail. The night before we stayed in Port St. Lucie about a 90 minute drive from our testing site. We arrived 15 minutes early for our tests. As we sat in our car, a pharmacist supervised the testing process through the Drive Through window. We were done in about 15 minutes. We placed our test samples in the box indicated by the pharmacist. Before we left, I specifically asked the testing supervisor how long would it take to get our results. He said “24 to 48 hours”.  That meant about 10 AM on December 1, the day of our embarkation. I told him that was IMPORTANT as we taking a cruise on Wednesday. The timing was okay. This is where it all went wrong.

     Through my tablet and the hotel’s computer, I kept checking QUEST’s website and my email for written confirmation. I checked every couple of hours through Tuesday and into Wednesday morning. NO TEST RESULTS were available by 11 AM on Wednesday. Through Cruise Critic, I knew that if we had proof of testing but no results, HAL could test us at embarkation. The stress of not knowing if we would be able to board was palpable. I DO NOT ENDORSE OR RECOMMEND QUEST DIAGNOSTIC SERVICES FOR TESTING.

     Arriving at Port Everglades at Noon on December 1, we left our bags with a porter and entered the terminal. I explained our situation to the greeter at the entrance. She called over another staff member who escorted us to an area for testing. We took our tests and went to a waiting area. After 15 minutes, our name was called and we were given our test results. NEGATIVE!!!! We then were allowed to board.

     My wife finally got her test results Thursday December 2, 2021 when we were on our second day at sea. On Friday, I received a note that QUEST DIAGNOSTICS COULD NOT FIND MY RESULTS!

[jeh10641]

2 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

I was on the wait list for two Hawaii cruises.  This is the first time I have been on a wait list and hadn’t expected to be given a booking # and pay a deposit.  For reasons other than Covid I cancelled but they included me in the survey.  I thought there were a lot of choices to choose from, I think HAL is testing the “waters” with Alaska cruises and more European cruises coming up.

 

I answered with my requirements for cruising, 7 day cruise round trip, no flight involved, everyone fully vaxed and tested.  That way if I test positive for some reason I can just head home (there should be no interim testing).  The quarantined people who have reported about the experience online are asymptomatic and on longer voyages.  They are so kind to share their experience and hopefully HAL will listen to their advice.

 

I know HAL is balancing many requirements from CDC, mariners, ports in the itinerary, staffing, etc , I am expecting some new updated information soon.   Would I cruise out of Florida or Texas?  Not at this time.  Will Vancouver accept cruise ships this year?  🤔🙏⛴

 

 

Vancouver is preparing for a 2022 cruise season as we speak.

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, Sherry H said:

Everyone has a right to their opinion but not their own facts.  The fact is that the ships must follow the requirements of the port they are wishing to enter.

The fact is the willing tourist is a scarce commodity right now for a desperate industry.   They are competing for our dollars and our opinions matter. I certainly can find someplace else to go to spend my dollars.  And I have chosen my travels based on protocols and if economic data is factual enough for you so have a vast number of other people.