Costa Magica to Carnival Fleet

[CruizinSusan70]

26 minutes ago, mz-s said:

I guess it's a good sign that ships are being sold to places other than scrapyards again at least?

Certainly brings in more money to offset the billions bled.  Every dollar helps

[tidecat]

I guess we'll see if Seajets ever starts cruise operations, or if they're just hoping for scrap prices to appreciate.

[jsglow]

So this is the first of the Costa ships officially announced.

[Squirreladd]

Why not replace it with one of the two remaining fantasy Class ships? Seems the cost of upkeep vs a fantasy, in addition to the fact you can reasonably charge more than the fantasy ships would make it worth it.  A 19 year old ship vs a 25 year old ship. 

 

 

[CruiseAdict218]

2 hours ago, Squirreladd said:

Why not replace it with one of the two remaining fantasy Class ships? Seems the cost of upkeep vs a fantasy, in addition to the fact you can reasonably charge more than the fantasy ships would make it worth it.  A 19 year old ship vs a 25 year old ship. 

 

 

Magica wouldn’t be able to port in Tampa or Jacksonville and the Spirit Class are needed in other crucial ports (Tampa/Europe, Baltimore, Alaska/Mobile, etc). Or the cost of refurbishment aren’t worth it, as it was probably easier to just change Luminosa (swapping Costa for Carnival names etc).

[CarnivalShips480]

2 hours ago, Squirreladd said:

Why not replace it with one of the two remaining fantasy Class ships? Seems the cost of upkeep vs a fantasy, in addition to the fact you can reasonably charge more than the fantasy ships would make it worth it.  A 19 year old ship vs a 25 year old ship. 

 

 

It would take millions to convert it to a Carnival ship, and then Magica would be too big for Jacksonville and Tampa. Anyway, Elation and Paradise are in excellent condition. There isn't much reason to replace much loved ships Elation and Paradise.

[jimbo5544]

Does signify that the whole financial situation is still very fluid and dynamic.

[Indytraveler83]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought Magica was rumored to go to Carnival, and then they switched ships to Luminosa?

 

I thought I also remembered rumors that Carnival Corp had concerns about the ship's state of repair, and decided not to further invest in it.  

[CruiseAdict218]

20 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought Magica was rumored to go to Carnival, and then they switched ships to Luminosa?

 

I thought I also remembered rumors that Carnival Corp had concerns about the ship's state of repair, and decided not to further invest in it.  

It was announced around June 2021 that Carnival was to get Costa Magica and AIDA’s 3rd new build which is now Carnival Jubilee.

 

A year later it was announced Carnival was taking Luminosa over Magica. However I don’t believe they stated why they took one over the other, but presumed that Luminosa was cheaper to convert then say attempting to Sunshine Magica, Carnival really didn’t have to change much on Luminosa other than the name Costa to Carnival and a few touch’s on some of the venues. 

[CarnivalShips480]

And also Luminosa became a better fit. I wrote an longer than I anticipated post about that once.

[Stick93]

Maybe carnival realized what many of see the SUNSHINED ships are terrible. If they start sunshining the conquest ships then they are really crazy. They need more new modernized ship like the other cruise companies. The excel class is a good start. 

[tidecat]

5 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Maybe carnival realized what many of see the SUNSHINED ships are terrible. If they start sunshining the conquest ships then they are really crazy. They need more new modernized ship like the other cruise companies. The excel class is a good start. 

Guests, generally speaking, love the Sunshine class. However the conversion costs are much higher, and the potential additional revenue is limited.

 

Luminosa is better suited for the Australian and Alaskan markets. I also expect Carnival to offer their first World Cruise on Luminosa in 2025 or 2026 given how well the Transpacific cruises seem to be selling.

[mz-s]

12 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Maybe carnival realized what many of see the SUNSHINED ships are terrible. If they start sunshining the conquest ships then they are really crazy. They need more new modernized ship like the other cruise companies. The excel class is a good start. 

 

Each Excel ship is $1Bn plus. Carnival is over $30Bn in debt and still not profitable. There won't be any new Carnival (Carnival Corp I mean, not just Carnival cruise line) ships for quite some time once their current obligations are satisfied.

 

For the Luminosa, they basically just wire-wheeled COSTA off the side of the ship and called it good. They didn't even have the money to put Guy's Burgers, their most popular food concept of the past decade, on the ship.

 

I agree they need new ships. Their fleet looks really sad compared to lines that were building what were basically Excel class ships 20 years ago. The bad news is, that's only going to get worse because they can't afford new ships and they can't afford to radically renovate their old ships. Carnival's only option is to compete on price with outmoded ships.

[RD64]

18 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Guests, generally speaking, love the Sunshine class. However the conversion costs are much higher, and the potential additional revenue is limited.

 

Luminosa is better suited for the Australian and Alaskan markets. I also expect Carnival to offer their first World Cruise on Luminosa in 2025 or 2026 given how well the Transpacific cruises seem to be selling.

A world cruise? Carnival has to decide what it wants to be. It is primarily in the mass market (3-7 days). This is not a world cruise demographic.

[jsglow]

14 minutes ago, RD64 said:

A world cruise? Carnival has to decide what it wants to be. It is primarily in the mass market (3-7 days). This is not a world cruise demographic.

Maybe you're right about a full World but I'm hearing that all 3 of the Trans-Pacific are selling very well.  Like crazy well. Carnival has enough ships to make these occasional extended cruises happen, especially if they involve a seasonal ship relocation or needed drydock. All 3 of the newly announced TPs fit that category.

 

It's going to be interesting if they start to build in more of their 'standard' 14 day Journeys.  Those all command premium prices and are in high demand. The challenge is in managing the revenue model.  Obviously the bar bill isn't what it is on a 4 night to Cozumel.  So they have to be able to sell the longer cruises at a price point that works. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by jsglow

[Stick93]

25 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Each Excel ship is $1Bn plus. Carnival is over $30Bn in debt and still not profitable. There won't be any new Carnival (Carnival Corp I mean, not just Carnival cruise line) ships for quite some time once their current obligations are satisfied.

 

For the Luminosa, they basically just wire-wheeled COSTA off the side of the ship and called it good. They didn't even have the money to put Guy's Burgers, their most popular food concept of the past decade, on the ship.

 

I agree they need new ships. Their fleet looks really sad compared to lines that were building what were basically Excel class ships 20 years ago. The bad news is, that's only going to get worse because they can't afford new ships and they can't afford to radically renovate their old ships. Carnival's only option is to compete on price with outmoded ships.

If this is so which I agree - pretty sad. 

[Stick93]

37 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Guests, generally speaking, love the Sunshine class. However the conversion costs are much higher, and the potential additional revenue is limited.

 

Luminosa is better suited for the Australian and Alaskan markets. I also expect Carnival to offer their first World Cruise on Luminosa in 2025 or 2026 given how well the Transpacific cruises seem to be selling.

Sun-shined ships are tired and old. I was just next to the sunshine twice in past 4 months and the ship is rusting through its new paint colors. It’s a shame - I thought JH said they fixed the paint issue. I guess there is not enough blue paint to get all the rust covered. 

[jsglow]

49 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Maybe carnival realized what many of see the SUNSHINED ships are terrible. If they start sunshining the conquest ships then they are really crazy. They need more new modernized ship like the other cruise companies. The excel class is a good start. 

The Sunshine class are among my favorite ships. Sorry that you don't like them. But to each his own I suppose.

[Stick93]

2 minutes ago, jsglow said:

The Sunshine class are among my favorite ships. Sorry that you don't like them. But to each his own I suppose.

Serious question - what is better on those ships than the other classes?  

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, Stick93 said:

Serious question - what is better on those ships than the other classes?  

 

Well the Sunshine's Serenity area is fantastic. The rest of the ship is haphazard and sub-par, especially the Limelight Lounge, Lido Buffet area, and the added staterooms did those areas no favors.

[Stick93]

Just now, mz-s said:

 

Well the Sunshine's Serenity area is fantastic. The rest of the ship is haphazard and sub-par, especially the Limelight Lounge, Lido Buffet area, and the added staterooms did those areas no favors.

Serious? The lawn Chair is nice but the rest is overcrowded! You have summed up all that’s wrong - the major issue! More people, less room and worn out ship. 

[jsglow]

15 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Serious? The lawn Chair is nice but the rest is overcrowded! You have summed up all that’s wrong - the major issue! More people, less room and worn out ship. 

To answer your supposedly serious question from above (although you've obviously made up your mind which is fine), they are 'fully featured ships' with the maximum compliment of bars/restaurants etc. that have done a good job (not perfect mind you) of multi-use public space utilization.  Said another way, they don't have a dedicated nightclub that sits empty 18 hours a day, among other underutilized assets or a completely useless art gallery where a Red Frog Pub should go. Deck 5 does a good job of spreading people out at all hours of the day. And the retrofitted main theater is head and shoulders better than later incarnations on the Vista Class ships. 

 

I will say that the Limelight is a weak link but given their constraints about the best they could do.  And they improved it with Sunrise/Radiance by turning it 90 degrees. It's particularly weak on Sunshine. Now one can say that they shouldn't have added cabins but I think it's fair to assume that the added revenue from those units was part of the overall calculus for the $200MM investment. I personally don't find any of the Sunshine ships 'more crowded'. I think that's especially true compared to the Vista Class.  Of course Sunshine has the best Serenity in the fleet (among the older ships; can't comment on Excels) only given a run for its money by the Spirits.

 

So serious question for you.  How many cruises and how many sea days do you have on one of the Sunshine class ships? Personally, I have something like 7-8 cruises and north of 30 days on all 3 ships combined. And we're back aboard one in a couple of weeks.

Edited February 10, 2023 by jsglow

[CruiseAdict218]

I don't think Sunshining the Destiny/Triumph Class was a horrible idea. We loved our cruise on the Sunshine, little less so on Sunrise. Yeah it would have been a bit nicer to not add the extra cabins but there was no way they weren't but that didn't effect our opinion overall. 

 

I will be curious what their next plan will be for newer ships once they turn their financial situation around or if they snag a few more ships from their other brands (Carnival Fun German Style anyone?). Though I would be pretty surprised if Carnival did a World Cruise, its good they are exploring more long and unique cruises with Luminosa, and with a few other ships. 

[stobe1]

I personally love the Sunshine. I do not care for the Sunrise and have not (and probably will not) sail on Radiance unless she is taken off that West coast Ensenada 3 and 4 day run.

[jsglow]

7 minutes ago, stobe1 said:

I personally love the Sunshine. I do not care for the Sunrise and have not (and probably will not) sail on Radiance unless she is taken off that West coast Ensenada 3 and 4 day run.

Interesting. Care about sharing why?