Gratuities

[ryano]

It is past time to call the daily gratuities what they are, a daily service charge, and make it to where you pay or you dont cruise.   That would essentially do away with these type threads and those who look for any reason to justify not paying the daily charge.   There has to be some kinda tax issue or something as to why they arent already doing this.

Edited February 9, 2022 by ryano

[UNCFanatik]

2 minutes ago, Amberle3 said:

Except the crew contract very clearly tells them that their expected salary is based primarily on tips. And the cruise line makes it very clear to passengers what the expected tips are.  

Believe me no one in their right mind is going to sign a contract to work 10-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10 months, for a net sum of about $15 a week. 

 

Additionally many times the cruise lines use agents for their hiring, and those agents charge the workers anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars - which gets deducted from their earnings. And cruise lines will also "pay for" the worker's airfare to the US, which actually is a loan and also comes out of their earnings. So in many cases, especially for new workers or ones at the beginning of their contracts, they start out their contracts being very much in debt to the cruise line. 

 

The bottom line is that the cruise line makes it clear to workers that they actually get paid almost nothing and their income is from tipping, and they make it clear to the passengers that tipping is expected. They really should call it something other than a "tip", but they don't.

 

 

 

And yet, they still find people that willfully sign up to work on a cruise ship and my Cruise fare and patronage contributes to their employment. 

 

Everything you mentioned is frankly none of my concern. And the cruise lines dont always make it VERY clear about expected tips as many people arent aware they can remove them and tip as they see fit. And not every crew member is part of the tipping pool. And in these cash strapped times for cruise lines, there is no guarantee that these automatic gratuities are even making it to the crew members. 

 

And again, some of Royals gratuities are mandatory. When I buy a drink package pre-cruise, I automatically get charged 18% for gratuity as well if I do not buy a drink package and just walk up to a bar and order a beer, I get 18% charge added. Is it really worth 18% the price of a beer, for a bartender just to hand this to me?? 

 

Your problem with wages lie with the cruise lines and their business model. Its not my responsibility to just blindly leave tips when there are cases where they are not earned or service was not adequately provided

 

 

[UNCFanatik]

3 minutes ago, ryano said:

It is past time to call the daily gratuities what they are, a daily service charge, and make it to where you pay or you dont cruise.   That would essentially do away with these type threads and those who look for any reason to justify not paying the daily charge.   There has to be some kinda tax issue or something as to why they arent already doing this.

 

OR just pay their crew more and if they feel it warrants a base price increase they can let the market sort it out. 

[crazyank]

3 hours ago, xxHadleyxx said:

The expected daily gratuity is very clearly explained well before you ever set foot on the ship.  You know full well that is part of cruising. 

and therein lies the problem.  A gratuity should NEVER be expected before service is rendered.

[boscobeans]

As of 2020, the average monthly salary in the Philippines was approximately $875 United States Dollars. 

$29.17 per day.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 cabins 2 passengers each = 30 daily tips

If $2.00 of the standard housekeeper gratuity goes to the room steward
Roughly $1,800 United States Dollars

 $60.00 per day.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long hours seven days a week, very little personal time.
Contracts for 6 months away from home and family.
Keep a smile on your face a all times.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost all living expenses are provided.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Cash extra gratuities ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AND THEY DESERVE EVERY RED CENT AND MORE...

 

 

[cruiseboy89130]

So you can save $14.50 x 2 x 7 =$ 203 in 15 minutes or less! Quite a good deal 👌

[scorpluvsdolphins]

3 hours ago, Amberle3 said:

Except the crew contract very clearly tells them that their expected salary is based primarily on tips. And the cruise line makes it very clear to passengers what the expected tips are.  

Believe me no one in their right mind is going to sign a contract to work 10-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10 months, for a net sum of about $15 a week. 

 

Additionally many times the cruise lines use agents for their hiring, and those agents charge the workers anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars - which gets deducted from their earnings. And cruise lines will also "pay for" the worker's airfare to the US, which actually is a loan and also comes out of their earnings. So in many cases, especially for new workers or ones at the beginning of their contracts, they start out their contracts being very much in debt to the cruise line. 

 

The bottom line is that the cruise line makes it clear to workers that they actually get paid almost nothing and their income is from tipping, and they make it clear to the passengers that tipping is expected. They really should call it something other than a "tip", but they don't.

 

 

The crew has a guaranteed monthly income if the tips are lower than expected. I’m not sure of the amount, but it is definitely NOT a net sum of $15 a month. I think it was around $800 per month 3 years ago. 
The cruise lines can’t call it a service charge as that is taxable to the USA government if mandatory, like port fees and taxes. 

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, Amberle3 said:

Except the crew contract very clearly tells them that their expected salary is based primarily on tips. And the cruise line makes it very clear to passengers what the expected tips are.  

Believe me no one in their right mind is going to sign a contract to work 10-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10 months, for a net sum of about $15 a week. 

 

Additionally many times the cruise lines use agents for their hiring, and those agents charge the workers anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars - which gets deducted from their earnings. And cruise lines will also "pay for" the worker's airfare to the US, which actually is a loan and also comes out of their earnings. So in many cases, especially for new workers or ones at the beginning of their contracts, they start out their contracts being very much in debt to the cruise line. 

 

The bottom line is that the cruise line makes it clear to workers that they actually get paid almost nothing and their income is from tipping, and they make it clear to the passengers that tipping is expected. They really should call it something other than a "tip", but they don't.

 

 

WRONG.

 

The crew are paid, and guaranteed an internationally regulated wage for seafarers, it is non negotiable.(this minimum is most often well above the average salary in their home countries)  Also, their hours are regulated by the same convention, they know EXACTLY what their maximum weekly hours may be. THIS is what they sign a contract for. The know what the MINIMUM compensation  is, and they AGREE to work for THAT wage.

Edited February 10, 2022 by not-enough-cruising

[boscobeans]

 

[Akkers]

I dont agree with these tips for staff to make up their salaries. I believe that the staff should be paid a decent salary and that should be factored into the cruise price. Passengers should be embarrased into paying tips and staff should not be looking forward to handouts. Staff do a great job so they should be paid by the company, out of the money they charge for the cruise.

 

[UNCFanatik]

On 2/9/2022 at 6:40 PM, boscobeans said:

As of 2020, the average monthly salary in the Philippines was approximately $875 United States Dollars. 

$29.17 per day.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 cabins 2 passengers each = 30 daily tips

If $2.00 of the standard housekeeper gratuity goes to the room steward
Roughly $1,800 United States Dollars

 $60.00 per day.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long hours seven days a week, very little personal time.
Contracts for 6 months away from home and family.
Keep a smile on your face a all times.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost all living expenses are provided.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Cash extra gratuities ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AND THEY DESERVE EVERY RED CENT AND MORE...

 

 

 

And how much do those workers make that produce your every day goods? See...you dont know or care

 

As a consumer, what people are paid are none of my concern.... 

[boscobeans]

38 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

See...you dont know or care

 

As a consumer, what people are paid are none of my concern.... 

Just posting for informational purposes and I have absolutely NO WISH to argue one way or the other. 

I don't know or care if you tip, if you don't tip or anything else about you.

 

I do and always have tipped well as I had several jobs in the past where tips were important.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by boscobeans

[LGW59]

40 minutes ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

And how much do those workers make that produce your every day goods? See...you dont know or care

 

As a consumer, what people are paid are none of my concern.... 

Gee you've never said this before...🙄

[Akkers]

We as consumers do have to care. We dont want to use the services of 'identured' or slave labour. If we pay for a service then we should expect the company to reasonablly reimburse their staff. If they dont then we should go elsewhere (if there are choices) or not use the service at all.

My point is that the cruise lines should be paying reasonable salaries to their staff. If the salaries are not enough then they should be increased out of increased fares. But expecting to top-up staff wages from tips and extras is, IMO , irritating and unprofessional.

[time4u2go]

2 minutes ago, Akkers said:

We as consumers do have to care. We dont want to use the services of 'identured' or slave labour. If we pay for a service then we should expect the company to reasonablly reimburse their staff. If they dont then we should go elsewhere (if there are choices) or not use the service at all.

My point is that the cruise lines should be paying reasonable salaries to their staff. If the salaries are not enough then they should be increased out of increased fares. But expecting to top-up staff wages from tips and extras is, IMO , irritating and unprofessional.

I'm curious...do you eat at restaurants?  If so, do you tip?

[Akkers]

Tipping is not a common thing in the UK, only happens in high-end establishments. I know that service charges/tipping are a big thing in North America - confuses me no end.

So over there if you order something you have to pay extra x% service charge and y% tip? How does that work? Why not include in the price and make it easier for the customers.

Say you order a portion of caviar which is 500 dollars; which the staff just pouur out of a box onto a plate. The service charge, say at 10%, means you pay an extra 50 dollars. But at the same place you order a steak for 20 dollars which takes forever to cook and garnish but service charge is 2 dollars. How is that justified?

In any walk of life, there is a seller and a buyer. Seller says 'I am selling at this price' and the buyer can agree to buy it or not depending on his budget.  Thats it!

And as for tipping, people say you should tip for excellent service. Why? Are staff not employed to give excellent service anyway? Or is there 2-tier service; one for tipping customers and one for none-tippers like me? And I do believe the tippers degrade the service for non-tippers. I was in Egypt recently and noticed that at the hotel pool bar staff were all over certain people bringing them drinks regularly (they were the tippers). Whereas other guests, like me, were totally ignored and we had to go to the bar to get our own drinks.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Akkers

[time4u2go]

37 minutes ago, Akkers said:

Tipping is not a common thing in the UK, only happens in high-end establishments. I know that service charges/tipping are a big thing in North America - confuses me no end.

So over there if you order something you have to pay extra x% service charge and y% tip? How does that work? Why not include in the price and make it easier for the customers.

Say you order a portion of caviar which is 500 dollars; which the staff just pouur out of a box onto a plate. The service charge, say at 10%, means you pay an extra 50 dollars. But at the same place you order a steak for 20 dollars which takes forever to cook and garnish but service charge is 2 dollars. How is that justified?

In any walk of life, there is a seller and a buyer. Seller says 'I am selling at this price' and the buyer can agree to buy it or not depending on his budget.  Thats it!

And as for tipping, people say you should tip for excellent service. Why? Are staff not employed to give excellent service anyway? Or is there 2-tier service; one for tipping customers and one for none-tippers like me? And I do believe the tippers degrade the service for non-tippers. I was in Egypt recently and noticed that at the hotel pool bar staff were all over certain people bringing them drinks regularly (they were the tippers). Whereas other guests, like me, were totally ignored and we had to go to the bar to get our own drinks.

I think you are confused about a few things.

 

First of all, in a typical restaurant setting in the US, there is no "service charge".  There is tax, and there is tip.  The tax is mandatory (and varies by location), and the tip is optional (except in some cases, like for a large party).

 

As far as your comparison between caviar and steak...the person preparing the food is not tipped.  The tip is for the person serving the food, although that person often shares the tip with others, such as the person bussing the table.

 

Note that I'm not advocating for or against tipping...I'm just clarifying some of your statements.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by time4u2go

[Akkers]

time4u2go - thanks for that. I am not sure how exactly these things work in north america.

I was once travelling and we stopped at a Canadian airport in transit. We decided to order some pizzas and estimated the cost and had enough Canadian money to cover it. However, when the bill came it was around around 40% more! We were totally confused until the waitress explained the extra add-ons (service charge+tip etc). So we ended up paying in GBP and we got swindled there as well (they gave us a really poor exchange rate). Ah well, we were tourists after all.

[billslowsky]

19 hours ago, Akkers said:

My point is that the cruise lines should be paying reasonable salaries to their staff. If the salaries are not enough then they should be increased out of increased fares. But expecting to top-up staff wages from tips and extras is, IMO , irritating and unprofessional.

There have been several posts on other threads with links to how much cruise staff are being paid.  They hire many workers from countries where the cost of living is a small fraction of what they are where the passengers live.

 

What might not appear to be an acceptable wage in a US city may be perfectly fine for the person from another country, and they work to keep their families comfortable, along with personal living conditions provided.  

 

The workers have alternatives.

[Biker19]

36 minutes ago, Akkers said:

We were totally confused until the waitress explained the extra add-ons (service charge+tip etc)

Some establishments may have their own pricing policies.

[SRF]

On 2/9/2022 at 4:02 PM, UNCFanatik said:

And in these cash strapped times for cruise lines, there is no guarantee that these automatic gratuities are even making it to the crew members.

 

You really think that?

 

You don't think that that information would not be out by now????

 

And based on what Cheng75 has said, there is a certain minimum pay, so even if everyone took off the grats, the cruise line would have to make up the missing grats to a certain pay level.

[grandgeezer]

22 hours ago, time4u2go said:

I'm curious...do you eat at restaurants?  If so, do you tip?

The big differences are, you determine if a tip is justified, you determine how much, and it isn’t paid until the end.

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, grandgeezer said:

The big differences are, you determine if a tip is justified, you determine how much, and it isn’t paid until the end.

Can't that be done on a cruise ship?

[exm]

On 2/9/2022 at 6:40 PM, boscobeans said:

As of 2020, the average monthly salary in the Philippines was approximately $875 United States Dollars. 

$29.17 per day.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 cabins 2 passengers each = 30 daily tips

If $2.00 of the standard housekeeper gratuity goes to the room steward
Roughly $1,800 United States Dollars

 $60.00 per day.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Long hours seven days a week, very little personal time.
Contracts for 6 months away from home and family.
Keep a smile on your face a all times.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost all living expenses are provided.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Cash extra gratuities ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AND THEY DESERVE EVERY RED CENT AND MORE...

 

 

 

I'm all for tipping the crew, and I'm generous with them. However, you can't compare monthly salaries of the Philippines vs the US. Their cost of living is also much, much lower.

[billslowsky]

3 minutes ago, exm said:

 

I'm all for tipping the crew, and I'm generous with them. However, you can't compare monthly salaries of the Philippines vs the US. Their cost of living is also much, much lower.

You can compare because many of the workers maintain a home in their home country - where they send some of their salary back to their families.  They're not living in Monaco when they get off the ship.