Royal Caribbean CEO Remarks - Revisiting Covid Policies

[Nabalab]

22 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Started good but this thread is now heading down the very same road as so many others that proceeded it.🙄

 

Yup... It's like trash-talking in sports.  Pointless.  

 

"You know, you're right.  The team I like DOES suck.  I'm now going to root for YOUR team"

 

No one is going to convince anyone to feel any different about ANY of this. 

 

People post just to post.  Kinda like what I'm doing now.

 

Happy Wednesday 🙂

[topnole]

22 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Agree, but another debate about vaccine effectiveness, or lack of, is going to go nowhere except for another thread deletion.

It isn’t really a debate.  We know what we know and there is much we don’t know.  Explaining the scientific process in the body isn’t a debate.  SAMJR asked why boosters would help.  I answered using a generic explanation of antibodies and T cell immune response that could apply to any infection, not just Covid.   There isn’t one thing there that is controversial. Why is this considered a debate or content hat should be deleted? 

[jean87510]

1 hour ago, Keksie said:

There are always people who love to be told how many plants they can have on their front porch and want to make sure their neighbors are exactly the same.

and most of those same people do not have a healthy lifestyle.

[jean87510]

10 minutes ago, topnole said:

It isn’t really a debate.  We know what we know and there is much we don’t know.  Explaining the scientific process in the body isn’t a debate.  SAMJR asked why boosters would help.  I answered using a generic explanation of antibodies and T cell immune response that could apply to any infection, not just Covid.   There isn’t one thing there that is controversial. Why is this considered a debate or content hat should be deleted? 

No posts should be deleted if we are engaging in conversations.  Just name calling.  If people can't handle different opinions without clutching their pearls then move on.

[bucfan2]

5 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

No posts should be deleted if we are engaging in conversations.  Just name calling.  If people can't handle different opinions without clutching their pearls then move on.

Wish that were true.  Have seen several posts deleted that simply spoke truth...just didn't fit the ____ (can't even put the word in there (hint: narrat___) or this one will be deleted...speaking from experience unfortunately).

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, topnole said:

Because with no antibodies you get infected.   Antibodies wane.   Boosters spike your antibodies.  With sufficient antibodies the vax have seemingly about a 50/50 of preventing the omicron strain.    
 

T cell memory remains regardless, but there is a delay as those then trigger your body to ramp up antibodies after exposure.  So you get infected and sick, but then the antibodies come in and do there job while you get less sick than you otherwise.  That is mainly what is happening in a very simplistic explanation.  
 

No one said the shots don’t help overall against omicron.  Just that they don’t work as well, so many that are vaccinated will get infected even with boosters.  Some will get exposed that are boosted and won’t get sick.  There were vax breakthrough cases with all the strains.  It’s just the %s are much higher for breakthroughs with omicron.  

Actually, yes, I read & heard multiple places that the shots don't work against omicron.  I'm going to avoid searching and posting links so as not to be "argumentative", but saying "no one said that" is wrong.   And yes, I read/heard this from reliable sources other than twitter, FB, Instagram, random blog. 

[Joseph2017China]

This is really simple.  Every person who says, let's go on vacation will make decisions based on the experience.  For me, I don't want to wear a mask, I never wear a mask, so why go on vacation and be stuck in a mask?  Yes, I'm vaccinated, and boosted, and had Covid.  It has become part of life.  

 

So when deciding, I want to cruise, but I want the cruise experience.  I also travel land based trips also.  So, If I have a choice to fly to Europe and not need a test, and go to an area, where I can mostly enjoy without a mask on, vs being on a ship, with a mask, and stressing over a test, than guess what?  I will choose the maskless option.  

 

Cruise lines need to keep up with the travel industry and not be "more restrictive" than other choices.  That simple.  

[topnole]

2 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Actually, yes, I read & heard multiple places that the shots don't work against omicron.  I'm going to avoid searching and posting links so as not to be "argumentative", but saying "no one said that" is wrong.   And yes, I read/heard this from reliable sources other than twitter, FB, Instagram, random blog. 

This is not in the spirit of argument.  I’m simply saying with all things viral,

bacterial, or in most non biological science like engineering it isn’t binary or all or nothing.  This is the problem with all of the narratives.  Lots of things can significantly provide protection, but not provide complete protection.  This is the case for so many things.  Bullet proof vests provide protection, but clearly not complete protection.  Termite bait stations provide great protection, but you can still get termites.  Home alarm systems provide a lot of protection, but obviously can only do so much.  Much in life is not all or nothing.  Too many statements out there that things work (implying 100%) or they don’t (implying they do nothing).  The reality is these are not dichotomous outcomes.  It isn’t just a zero or a one.  The wifi can work, but be very slow as an example.  There is a continuum range of effectiveness for so many different things and medicine and human physiology certainly fall in that category.  We can both have the same knee problems and knee surgery and your results are fantastic while mine are hardly an improvement.  Happens all the time. 
 

So I’m not trying to argue any point.  All Im saying is there is much we don’t know, but we do know medical effectiveness usually ranges in a continuum, not all or nothing.  In real time we will not really know all the answers.  
 

Cheers.  

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, topnole said:

It isn’t really a debate.  We know what we know and there is much we don’t know.  Explaining the scientific process in the body isn’t a debate.  SAMJR asked why boosters would help.  I answered using a generic explanation of antibodies and T cell immune response that could apply to any infection, not just Covid.   There isn’t one thing there that is controversial. Why is this considered a debate or content hat should be deleted? 

Post whatever you want. I'm not the board police and don't care to be. I also don't have enough of a vested interest in this thread to care when it disappears. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

50 minutes ago, topnole said:

This is not in the spirit of argument.  I’m simply saying with all things viral,

bacterial, or in most non biological science like engineering it isn’t binary or all or nothing.  This is the problem with all of the narratives.  Lots of things can significantly provide protection, but not provide complete protection.  This is the case for so many things.  Bullet proof vests provide protection, but clearly not complete protection.  Termite bait stations provide great protection, but you can still get termites.  Home alarm systems provide a lot of protection, but obviously can only do so much.  Much in life is not all or nothing.  Too many statements out there that things work (implying 100%) or they don’t (implying they do nothing).  The reality is these are not dichotomous outcomes.  It isn’t just a zero or a one.  The wifi can work, but be very slow as an example.  There is a continuum range of effectiveness for so many different things and medicine and human physiology certainly fall in that category.  We can both have the same knee problems and knee surgery and your results are fantastic while mine are hardly an improvement.  Happens all the time. 
 

So I’m not trying to argue any point.  All Im saying is there is much we don’t know, but we do know medical effectiveness usually ranges in a continuum, not all or nothing.  In real time we will not really know all the answers.  
 

Cheers.  

Totally understand and agree with what you wrote.  My point is simply I remember hearing/reading (around the beginning of Omicron) that the original vaccines didn't "work" against Omicron, and now everyone needs a booster.  But somehow the boosters (which are the same formula?) did.  If "they" would have said "vaccine effectiveness wears off", I would understand that.  But that wasn't the message.  

 

Very similar to extremely early in the pandemic "masks don't work", then two weeks later mask mandates are all over the place.  Yes, the "masks don't work" was (supposedly) to keep masks around for first responders, but it's a bad "look" to do a 180 that quickly (IMO of course).  I get knowledge changes.  But, again IMO, TPTB need to be more careful on their messages.  

 

I'm not anti-vax, I'm not anti-mask, I'm not "anti-science".   I would like a consistent message, and if the message needs to change (because of new found knowledge), acknowledge that what you said before was wrong, or you got more information, whatever.  

[topnole]

9 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Totally understand and agree with what you wrote.  My point is simply I remember hearing/reading (around the beginning of Omicron) that the original vaccines didn't "work" against Omicron, and now everyone needs a booster.  But somehow the boosters (which are the same formula?) did.  If "they" would have said "vaccine effectiveness wears off", I would understand that.  But that wasn't the message.  

 

Very similar to extremely early in the pandemic "masks don't work", then two weeks later mask mandates are all over the place.  Yes, the "masks don't work" was (supposedly) to keep masks around for first responders, but it's a bad "look" to do a 180 that quickly (IMO of course).  I get knowledge changes.  But, again IMO, TPTB need to be more careful on their messages.  

 

I'm not anti-vax, I'm not anti-mask, I'm not "anti-science".   I would like a consistent message, and if the message needs to change (because of new found knowledge), acknowledge that what you said before was wrong, or you got more information, whatever.  

I totally agree.  

[NightOne]

5 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

However, 30-60% results in an amazing cruise experience that I'm glad I was able to experience.

 

Agree. However,  when masking is involved it reduces the cruise experience significantly.

[topnole]

18 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Totally understand and agree with what you wrote.  My point is simply I remember hearing/reading (around the beginning of Omicron) that the original vaccines didn't "work" against Omicron, and now everyone needs a booster.  But somehow the boosters (which are the same formula?) did.  If "they" would have said "vaccine effectiveness wears off", I would understand that.  But that wasn't the message.  

 

Very similar to extremely early in the pandemic "masks don't work", then two weeks later mask mandates are all over the place.  Yes, the "masks don't work" was (supposedly) to keep masks around for first responders, but it's a bad "look" to do a 180 that quickly (IMO of course).  I get knowledge changes.  But, again IMO, TPTB need to be more careful on their messages.  

 

I'm not anti-vax, I'm not anti-mask, I'm not "anti-science".   I would like a consistent message, and if the message needs to change (because of new found knowledge), acknowledge that what you said before was wrong, or you got more information, whatever.  

And to me this is why we need to encourage discussion and not shun it.  A little back and forth conversation on these topics is a good thing and folks are capable of having civil conversations.  Not all conversations are arguments.  
 

People don’t have to read what they don’t like, so there are easy ways to ignore speech vs erasing it.  Thank goodness the US was founded on discussion,

debate, disagreement, and down right arguing (to put it lightly).  I hope we never forget that.  

 

I appreciate your comments.  

[Ocean Boy]

12 minutes ago, NightOne said:

 

Agree. However,  when masking is involved it reduces the cruise experience significantly.

No argument from me on that point.

[Ocean Boy]

11 minutes ago, topnole said:

And to me this is why we need to encourage discussion and not shun it.  A little back and forth conversation on these topics is a good thing and folks are capable of having civil conversations.  Not all conversations are arguments.  
 

People don’t have to read what they don’t like, so there are easy ways to ignore speech vs erasing it.  Thank goodness the US was founded on discussion,

debate, disagreement, and down right arguing (to put it lightly).  I hope we never forget that.  

 

I appreciate your comments.  

The U.S. and C.C. were founded by two different groups of people. And the rights layed down by the first group gives the second group the ability to run their site as they feel appropriate..... and to quote  you.... I hope we never forget that.

[Ashland]

6 hours ago, shutterbug63 said:

If they change policies, they should also require that kids 5 and over be vaccinated.  There's no reason not to since it's available for them now.  I would also hope they'd require the 3rd shot/booster.  I think that's safer, but unfortunately unlikely.

 That may be hard to manage for kids 5-11 since their just starting to be vaccinated. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Ashland

[UNCFanatik]

14 minutes ago, topnole said:

And to me this is why we need to encourage discussion and not shun it.  A little back and forth conversation on these topics is a good thing and folks are capable of having civil conversations.  Not all conversations are arguments.  
 

People don’t have to read what they don’t like, so there are easy ways to ignore speech vs erasing it.  Thank goodness the US was founded on discussion,

debate, disagreement, and down right arguing (to put it lightly).  I hope we never forget that.  

 

I appreciate your comments.  

 

I totally agree and that open discussion on all things Covid has not been promoted. Science, by its very definition should be "settled". As we have seen in these last 2 years, what is now becoming generally accepted was labeled a conspiracy theory once upon a time in order to minimize and demonize certain individuals and opinions that went against the official narrative partially because public health officials thought that by entertaining certain discussions, it would lead to vaccine hesitancy at some point. The "Noble Lie" became acceptable practice in the name of public health but that just turned out to erode the public's trust Just look at the things that were once considered conspiracy theories and would get someone deplatformed and banned from social media which now openly accepted:

 

1. Lab leak theory

2. Questioning the efficacy of cloth masks

3. Accepting Natural Immunity

4. The use of certain therapeutics

5. The true risk to children from Covid

6. The true cost of lockdown policies

 

All the while our public health officials continued to send mixed messages and "The Science" turned into "the Political Science". Its good to finally see a pivot but its long overdue

[Midway7934]

I think the higher -ups are waking up to the fact that there are many baby boomers like myself who have the money to travel but are totally stressed out by the 2 day testing window. We weren't raised in the iPhone era where everything is done with the touch of an app. The monitored tests confuse me and I know I am not the only one on these boards who feels that way. As a result (to save me unwanted stress) I have cancelled or shifted several Star Class cruises. I am vaccinated and boosted and practice healthy protocols (including for the flu). I will add,  however, I hate the masks. I read these boards and enjoy reading all about you savvy computer generation skipping from one cruise to another. Now I really think the higher -ups are looking to bring back the Star Class generation who have worked all their lives and are ready to spend what they have earned. Many of us don't spend all day on our phones texting. We actually use them to talk. Finding some place (which can only be booked ON LINE) or waiting for a test which has to be held up to a computer screen is stressful. Hopefully the higher-ups will realize this and start to see the profits rise.  I will even HAND write a "Thankyou" note. 

[orville99]

Here we go down the rat hole again, the rat hole again, the rat hole again, here we go down the rat hole again, all the day long.

 

Sung to the tune “here we go round the mulberry bush”

[jean87510]

1 hour ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

I totally agree and that open discussion on all things Covid has not been promoted. Science, by its very definition should be "settled". As we have seen in these last 2 years, what is now becoming generally accepted was labeled a conspiracy theory once upon a time in order to minimize and demonize certain individuals and opinions that went against the official narrative partially because public health officials thought that by entertaining certain discussions, it would lead to vaccine hesitancy at some point. The "Noble Lie" became acceptable practice in the name of public health but that just turned out to erode the public's trust Just look at the things that were once considered conspiracy theories and would get someone deplatformed and banned from social media which now openly accepted:

 

1. Lab leak theory

2. Questioning the efficacy of cloth masks

3. Accepting Natural Immunity

4. The use of certain therapeutics

5. The true risk to children from Covid

6. The true cost of lockdown policies

 

All the while our public health officials continued to send mixed messages and "The Science" turned into "the Political Science". Its good to finally see a pivot but its long overdue

in the immortal words of Cal Norton Jr., "bingo"

[rjrpar]

1 hour ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

I totally agree and that open discussion on all things Covid has not been promoted. Science, by its very definition should be "settled". As we have seen in these last 2 years, what is now becoming generally accepted was labeled a conspiracy theory once upon a time in order to minimize and demonize certain individuals and opinions that went against the official narrative partially because public health officials thought that by entertaining certain discussions, it would lead to vaccine hesitancy at some point. The "Noble Lie" became acceptable practice in the name of public health but that just turned out to erode the public's trust Just look at the things that were once considered conspiracy theories and would get someone deplatformed and banned from social media which now openly accepted:

 

1. Lab leak theory

2. Questioning the efficacy of cloth masks

3. Accepting Natural Immunity

4. The use of certain therapeutics

5. The true risk to children from Covid

6. The true cost of lockdown policies

 

All the while our public health officials continued to send mixed messages and "The Science" turned into "the Political Science". Its good to finally see a pivot but its long overdue

Great post. Thank you

[bucfan2]

1 hour ago, UNCFanatik said:

 

I totally agree and that open discussion on all things Covid has not been promoted. Science, by its very definition should be "settled". As we have seen in these last 2 years, what is now becoming generally accepted was labeled a conspiracy theory once upon a time in order to minimize and demonize certain individuals and opinions that went against the official narrative partially because public health officials thought that by entertaining certain discussions, it would lead to vaccine hesitancy at some point. The "Noble Lie" became acceptable practice in the name of public health but that just turned out to erode the public's trust Just look at the things that were once considered conspiracy theories and would get someone deplatformed and banned from social media which now openly accepted:

 

1. Lab leak theory

2. Questioning the efficacy of cloth masks

3. Accepting Natural Immunity

4. The use of certain therapeutics

5. The true risk to children from Covid

6. The true cost of lockdown policies

 

All the while our public health officials continued to send mixed messages and "The Science" turned into "the Political Science". Its good to finally see a pivot but its long overdue

Outstanding...appreciate ya.

Edited February 9, 2022 by bucfan2

[jean87510]

22 minutes ago, Midway7934 said:

I think the higher -ups are waking up to the fact that there are many baby boomers like myself who have the money to travel but are totally stressed out by the 2 day testing window. We weren't raised in the iPhone era where everything is done with the touch of an app. The monitored tests confuse me and I know I am not the only one on these boards who feels that way. As a result (to save me unwanted stress) I have cancelled or shifted several Star Class cruises. I am vaccinated and boosted and practice healthy protocols (including for the flu). I will add,  however, I hate the masks. I read these boards and enjoy reading all about you savvy computer generation skipping from one cruise to another. Now I really think the higher -ups are looking to bring back the Star Class generation who have worked all their lives and are ready to spend what they have earned. Many of us don't spend all day on our phones texting. We actually use them to talk. Finding some place (which can only be booked ON LINE) or waiting for a test which has to be held up to a computer screen is stressful. Hopefully the higher-ups will realize this and start to see the profits rise.  I will even HAND write a "Thankyou" note. 

if you can navigate this site, you can schedule a test online.  This reminds me of my husband who is a rocket scientist but wouldn't use the washer and dryer because he felt it to be a wife's job. 🙄 He has been transferred to multiple places recently for his job and finally had to do it.  It wasn't hard and he was capable of doing it, he chose not to.

[J0Y0US]

8 hours ago, shutterbug63 said:

If they change policies, they should also require that kids 5 and over be vaccinated.  There's no reason not to since it's available for them now.  I would also hope they'd require the 3rd shot/booster.  I think that's safer, but unfortunately unlikely.

 

There is really no reason to require vaccination honestly. The purpose of vaccination to be on a cruise ship for 3-10 days is what? Stop the spread? In that case testing is vastly more protective than just being vaccinated.

 

My kids will be vaccinated when they can be (they are 2 and 4) but its weird that people are so anxious for a vaccination requirements which are the least protective of testing, masking, and vaccination.

[J0Y0US]

In the end hopefully Royal simply starts testing at port. It would make things much easier than trying to find testing.

 

That's what NCL and Disney did and it worked great with no pre-arrival testing requirement except for unvaccinated kids (which Disney also provided at port the days prior to departure).