Royal Carribean disloyal to loyal cruisers, how not to run a cruise line.

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, ssb said:

Diamond Clubs still exist on Royal  Caribbean ships

Did someone indicate that they don't?

[ssb]

5 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Did someone indicate that they don't?

 

To quote "  

welshtiger

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• #1  

Posted yesterday at 12:18 PM (edited)

We see yet again Royal Carribean cruise line , erroding the benefits for the "crown and anchor " club loyalty scheme.  Happy hour diamond club -gone!

[Ocean Boy]

5 minutes ago, ssb said:

 

To quote "  

welshtiger

• 
•  

 

• #1  

Posted yesterday at 12:18 PM (edited)

We see yet again Royal Carribean cruise line , erroding the benefits for the "crown and anchor " club loyalty scheme.  Happy hour diamond club -gone!

Read it again. It say the Happy Hour is gone. Though it might be clearer if the word "in" was between the words hour and club.

[theotherchad]

7 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Did someone indicate that they don't?

 It depends on the ship. The policies and availability, etc of various lounges differs. Still, to me, even if the Diamond lounges did completely disappear, it seems to me that the anytime anywhere drink vouchers that replace them are an upgrade, not a cut. 

 

I do feel like for some cruisers, there is a status thing where they like the idea of being in a "special" lounge more than they care about actual benefits. As a brand new diamond, about to go on a ship that does have a diamond lounge (Allure OTS), we might go to the lounge and we might not. But we will definitely take pleasure in the roughly $60-$100 per day that 4 free drinks each will save us as a couple instead of griping about not having a lounge to make us feel special. 

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, theotherchad said:

 It depends on the ship. The policies and availability, etc of various lounges differs. Still, to me, even if the Diamond lounges did completely disappear, it seems to me that the anytime anywhere drink vouchers that replace them are an upgrade, not a cut. 

 

I do feel like for some cruisers, there is a status thing where they like the idea of being in a "special" lounge more than they care about actual benefits. As a brand new diamond, about to go on a ship that does have a diamond lounge (Allure OTS), we might go to the lounge and we might not. But we will definitely take pleasure in the roughly $60-$100 per day that 4 free drinks each will save us as a couple instead of griping about not having a lounge to make us feel special. 

Allure has a very nice Diamond Lounge. Great place to get an espresso or cappuccino and take in the view of the Boardwalk. Welcome to Diamond. I love Allure. Have a great cruise!

[theotherchad]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

Allure has a very nice Diamond Lounge. Great place to get an espresso or cappuccino and take in the view of the Boardwalk.

I must admit, considering that this next cruise in May is our first in about 4 years (hello COVID and other complications), and that it will be our first cruise as Diamonds, I'm way more excited than a man in his late fifties should be. We're talking "six year old who just got a pony" excited. 

[Morecruisesplz]

Explorer has a nice D lounge with inside and outside comfortable seating. Inside is perfect for a windy day with beautiful views of the ocean.

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, theotherchad said:

I must admit, considering that this next cruise in May is our first in about 4 years (hello COVID and other complications), and that it will be our first cruise as Diamonds, I'm way more excited than a man in his late fifties should be. We're talking "six year old who just got a pony" excited. 

You picked an awesome ship for your return to cruising!

[Starry Eyes]

3 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

You point out that cruise and air have different CUSTOMERS:  business vs. leisure.

 

And HOW they operate and structure their loyalty programs are different, given they have different customers.

 

But in general terms and conceptually they share important characteristics:

 

Both are intended to attract, recognize and reward repeat customers in order to enhance profitability.

 

Yes, the frequent flyer buys many more tickets than the frequent cruiser sails on cruises.

 

So while the qualification period for elite status for airlines resets annually, cruise lines would need a much longer period of say, 7 to 10 years.  

 

Right now, with no expiry to cruise nights, there's no incentive to return.  With airlines, there's that meter that shows how much more is needed to keep status, and it creates an incentive to book flights with the airline to hit the mark.

 

With RCI a guest with status can sail elsewhere with no worry of losing perks or status.  

 

Imagine instead, if you were to know that you needed to sail 14 more nights within the next two years in order to keep your benefit of drink vouchers.  Or sailing 28 more nights within the next two years gets you to the next level where you get free unlimited laundry.  That may be the needed incentive to continue booking and consolidating most cruises on one line rather than straying.

Those are interesting ideas.

As a shareholder I think there are a wide variety of loyal cruisers whose continued bookings should be encouraged and incentivized.  Let’s look at your 14 nights in two years proposal and imagine a family (now D+) that has booked a nice suite for Christmas cruise with the family every year for the last 16 years…very profitable. This year their flight was canceled and they missed their cruise by no fault of their own.  Thus they suddenly and sadly only got to sail 7 nights in 2 years rather than 14.  If your proposal also strips them of their loyalty status, it adds insult to injury and it may be the extra reason they shop other cruiselines .  Backfire.   I think the once a year cruises are valuable, even the ones that don’t sail in suites. They are more likely to buy the extras, unlike those of us who sail frequently.  If they miss a year here or there (hey, stuff happens), they are still valuable.  When they retire they may sail more.

Your second example…well, I cannot imagine sailing 28 nights in years is going to be rewarded with unlimited laundry (too expensive a reward for 28 budget nights) Maybe some smaller reward, but, oops, the smaller the reward the less incentive to consolidate.  

[BND]

39 minutes ago, theotherchad said:

 It depends on the ship. The policies and availability, etc of various lounges differs. Still, to me, even if the Diamond lounges did completely disappear, it seems to me that the anytime anywhere drink vouchers that replace them are an upgrade, not a cut. 

 

 

What ship do you think doesn't have a Diamond Lounge?

[Ocean Boy]

13 minutes ago, BND said:

What ship do you think doesn't have a Diamond Lounge?

I thought Empress was the last one and that doesn't count any longer.

[BND]

15 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I thought Empress was the last one and that doesn't count any longer.

Well, since Empress doesn't belong to Royal anymore...  That was my point.  There are no Royal ships without one.

[deliver42]

Who cares about the happy hour? I'd rather have the vouchers on my Sea Pass card to use whenever I want. That's an upgrade in my opinion. The change of hours is also an upgrade if you like to party after midnight. The only thing they took away for Diamond Plus was the Concierge lounge for suites. You are welcome to our Diamond lounge if you can stand us lowlifes without the plus.

[KansasK]

Is the clean your cabin once a day policy in force on all ships, or is it still in the trying it out stage on certain ships?  

 

Just wondering.

[Ocean Boy]

34 minutes ago, BND said:

Well, since Empress doesn't belong to Royal anymore...  That was my point.  There are no Royal ships without one.

I was reinforcing your point.

[PWP-001]

3 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Those are interesting ideas.

As a shareholder I think there are a wide variety of loyal cruisers whose continued bookings should be encouraged and incentivized.  Let’s look at your 14 nights in two years proposal and imagine a family (now D+) that has booked a nice suite for Christmas cruise with the family every year for the last 16 years…very profitable. This year their flight was canceled and they missed their cruise by no fault of their own.  Thus they suddenly and sadly only got to sail 7 nights in 2 years rather than 14.  If your proposal also strips them of their loyalty status, it adds insult to injury and it may be the extra reason they shop other cruiselines .  Backfire.   I think the once a year cruises are valuable, even the ones that don’t sail in suites. They are more likely to buy the extras, unlike those of us who sail frequently.  If they miss a year here or there (hey, stuff happens), they are still valuable.  When they retire they may sail more.

Your second example…well, I cannot imagine sailing 28 nights in years is going to be rewarded with unlimited laundry (too expensive a reward for 28 budget nights) Maybe some smaller reward, but, oops, the smaller the reward the less incentive to consolidate.  

Addressing your comments about missing a cruise "through no fault of their own" because of a flight, well look at how airlines treat the same situation:  do fly a flight regardless of whether you missed it or it was canceled and you get no credit.  And that's why those looking to requalify don't wait until the very end of the qualification period to complete their flight/miles quota.  Same would apply  to cruises, but again the idea is a multi-year rolling period, so one missed cruise probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker.  If they wanted it badly enough, they'd find a way.

 

Also, those high revenue cruisers who typically pay for the suites are getting most of the perks even without status... such as that Concierge Lounge access that status no longer grants.

 

 

To reiterate what I said in an earlier post, the rolling qualification period would be years-- maybe 7 to 10 years-- as opposed to the annual requalification for airlines.  And my examples were sailing "14 MORE nights" or "28 MORE nights" as opposed to a "total of".  The point of the sentence was to emphasize the incentive part of additional nights required (on top of what had already been sailed) to either requalify or get to the next level; I was not suggesting 14 nights or 28 nights total is what it would take.

 

RESTATED:  Imagine during a rolling 7 year period with two years to go before older cruises roll off, you just need to sail 14 more days to keep your status and benefits.  

 

Or imagine a different passenger with all the nights credits they already have, realizing if they just found a way to sail 28 days in the next two years, they would be at the next tier level from where they normally land, unlocking the laundry benefit.

 

I wouldn't even speculate as to what would be appropriate cruise nights or breakpoints between tiers.  But I can tell you that each line --RCI and their competitors-- has the data to compile reports on how cruise frequency, length, gaps between cruises, etc. to give them an idea of where the numbers fall.  Then using the 25 years of C&A historical data for members apply the parameters of a new rolling program to backtest using that actual cruise history to plot where members would fall had the new program been in effect:  number of members in each tier each year, how many drop-offs there would have been as old cruise history drops out of the rolling period, etc.  The backtesting would allow them to tweak years in the rolling period as well as breakpoints.   

 

Of course if a line even HINTS at a program change like this, then expect this website to implode as Barnacles have an absolute nuclear melt-down at a thread to their gawd-given right to all their benefits! 

 

 

[VTSKIandCRUISEGUY]

4 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Read it again. It say the Happy Hour is gone. Though it might be clearer if the word "in" was between the words hour and club.

But even that is incorrect. Sure, you can't get unlimited drinks in the lounge anymore (boo hoo!), but there is still a very nice appetizer and dessert buffet, along with friendly waiter service. And it's so much nicer now that it's not as busy anymore (lack of unlimited drinks keeps a lot of people away).

[neverbeenhere]

9 hours ago, HicksRA said:

Removing access to the Concierge Lounge concerned me about as much as dropping a penny in the parking lot and not bothering to bend over and pick it up. 

…

 Yes, I understand.  🍍’s aren’t effected. 

 

[Starry Eyes]

46 minutes ago, PWP-001 said:

Addressing your comments about missing a cruise "through no fault of their own" because of a flight, well look at how airlines treat the same situation:  do fly a flight regardless of whether you missed it or it was canceled and you get no credit.  And that's why those looking to requalify don't wait until the very end of the qualification period to complete their flight/miles quota.  Same would apply  to cruises, but again the idea is a multi-year rolling period, so one missed cruise probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker.  If they wanted it badly enough, they'd find a way.

 

Also, those high revenue cruisers who typically pay for the suites are getting most of the perks even without status... such as that Concierge Lounge access that status no longer grants.

 

 

To reiterate what I said in an earlier post, the rolling qualification period would be years-- maybe 7 to 10 years-- as opposed to the annual requalification for airlines.  And my examples were sailing "14 MORE nights" or "28 MORE nights" as opposed to a "total of".  The point of the sentence was to emphasize the incentive part of additional nights required (on top of what had already been sailed) to either requalify or get to the next level; I was not suggesting 14 nights or 28 nights total is what it would take.

 

RESTATED:  Imagine during a rolling 7 year period with two years to go before older cruises roll off, you just need to sail 14 more days to keep your status and benefits.  

 

Or imagine a different passenger with all the nights credits they already have, realizing if they just found a way to sail 28 days in the next two years, they would be at the next tier level from where they normally land, unlocking the laundry benefit.

 

I wouldn't even speculate as to what would be appropriate cruise nights or breakpoints between tiers.  But I can tell you that each line --RCI and their competitors-- has the data to compile reports on how cruise frequency, length, gaps between cruises, etc. to give them an idea of where the numbers fall.  Then using the 25 years of C&A historical data for members apply the parameters of a new rolling program to backtest using that actual cruise history to plot where members would fall had the new program been in effect:  number of members in each tier each year, how many drop-offs there would have been as old cruise history drops out of the rolling period, etc.  The backtesting would allow them to tweak years in the rolling period as well as breakpoints.   

 

Of course if a line even HINTS at a program change like this, then expect this website to implode as Barnacles have an absolute nuclear melt-down at a thread to their gawd-given right to all their benefits! 

 

 

I’m not reacting as a “barnacle,” but as a shareholder.   I’m a fairly frequent cruiser, so I’d fare well under your proposal yet I think you are wrong.  As a shareholder I value the scores of once a year cruisers who repeatedly choose RCI.  Or twice a year or whenever they are able.  I want them rewarded if they sail enough; I do not want them to feel they can never reach any status because their older cruises will fall off after 7 or 10 years.  No, absolutely not, because no other cruiseline loyalty program to the best of my knowledge will do that to them.  All the cruiselines have data and the fact that they are not using a rolling program might tell you their data says your ideas would be counterproductive.  
 

 

[Morecruisesplz]

1 hour ago, PWP-001 said:

Addressing your comments about missing a cruise "through no fault of their own" because of a flight, well look at how airlines treat the same situation:  do fly a flight regardless of whether you missed it or it was canceled and you get no credit.  And that's why those looking to requalify don't wait until the very end of the qualification period to complete their flight/miles quota.  Same would apply  to cruises, but again the idea is a multi-year rolling period, so one missed cruise probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker.  If they wanted it badly enough, they'd find a way.

 

Also, those high revenue cruisers who typically pay for the suites are getting most of the perks even without status... such as that Concierge Lounge access that status no longer grants.

 

 

To reiterate what I said in an earlier post, the rolling qualification period would be years-- maybe 7 to 10 years-- as opposed to the annual requalification for airlines.  And my examples were sailing "14 MORE nights" or "28 MORE nights" as opposed to a "total of".  The point of the sentence was to emphasize the incentive part of additional nights required (on top of what had already been sailed) to either requalify or get to the next level; I was not suggesting 14 nights or 28 nights total is what it would take.

 

RESTATED:  Imagine during a rolling 7 year period with two years to go before older cruises roll off, you just need to sail 14 more days to keep your status and benefits.  

 

Or imagine a different passenger with all the nights credits they already have, realizing if they just found a way to sail 28 days in the next two years, they would be at the next tier level from where they normally land, unlocking the laundry benefit.

 

I wouldn't even speculate as to what would be appropriate cruise nights or breakpoints between tiers.  But I can tell you that each line --RCI and their competitors-- has the data to compile reports on how cruise frequency, length, gaps between cruises, etc. to give them an idea of where the numbers fall.  Then using the 25 years of C&A historical data for members apply the parameters of a new rolling program to backtest using that actual cruise history to plot where members would fall had the new program been in effect:  number of members in each tier each year, how many drop-offs there would have been as old cruise history drops out of the rolling period, etc.  The backtesting would allow them to tweak years in the rolling period as well as breakpoints.   

 

Of course if a line even HINTS at a program change like this, then expect this website to implode as Barnacles have an absolute nuclear melt-down at a thread to their gawd-given right to all their benefits! 

 

 

No need to restate or reiterate. 

[earltonharley]

Welsh Tiger…from South Wales. Well that gives me an area, but where exactly do your cruise ships cruise from?  You know better how to run a multi-billion pound company then all those great folks at Royal Caribbean. You see, in America, if we disagree with the conduct of a business, we may suggest constructive changes. Not act like an imbecile about how Royal Caribbean is damaging you personally. Your mouth, and more importantly your business will not change Royal Caribbean in the least. As they say Mr. Tiger…”these boards don’t constitute an airport, you don’t have to announce your departure…just go!”  If you are so displeased with Royal, cruise with Carnival or some other discount line. I’ll have you know, I read your ridiculous thread this morning and passed it three times, going with the adage…if you don’t have something nice to say…but I felt I had to add my two cents to your tantrum. P.S. I just got off a New Years cruise on Anthem of the Seas and we couldn’t find anything wrong with the ship, the food, the service, and the entertainment. You obviously don’t want to hear that, it takes away from your tirade!

[PWP-001]

23 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I’m not reacting as a “barnacle,” but as a shareholder.   I’m a fairly frequent cruiser, so I’d fare well under your proposal yet I think you are wrong.  As a shareholder I value the scores of once a year cruisers who repeatedly choose RCI.  Or twice a year or whenever they are able.  I want them rewarded if they sail enough; I do not want them to feel they can never reach any status because their older cruises will fall off after 7 or 10 years.  No, absolutely not, because no other cruiseline loyalty program to the best of my knowledge will do that to them.  All the cruiselines have data and the fact that they are not using a rolling program might tell you their data says your ideas would be counterproductive.  
 

 

Just because no line is doing it now, is not an indicator it can't or won't be done.  Look at the airlines: NONE of them tied loyalty to revenue, then one was brave enough to do so.  Now many have jumped on board in some fashion.

 

And to be clear, as an individual shareholder you do really have a say in the operation, so who you want rewarded is immaterial.  Besides, chances are that most of those once-a-year cruisers are cruising for the cruise, and not for perks or status.

 

Effective loyalty programs are designed NOT reward everyone but instead recognize and reward those who continue to create a positive revenue impact.

 

Think of it another way... if you were director of a sales force, would you reward a salesperson who in one year had sales that were more that the rest of all the other salespersons combined?  Yes.  But what if that happened 10 years ago and since then they've underperformed everyone else? 

 

[CruisingHogFan]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:18 PM, welshtiger said:

We see yet again Royal Carribean cruise line , erroding the benefits for the "crown and anchor " club loyalty scheme.  Happy hour diamond club -gone! Now diamond plus cruisers excluded from the concierge lounge. Well ,I for one am sick to the back teeth of the constant penny pinching and degradation of the whole cruise expereince wth Royal. After 15 years of cruising with this line , enough is enough and I  will be voting with my credit card and sailing with alternative cruise lines.

The gimmicks dressed up as benefits just simply deter sensible people . Cabin service reduced to once a day.  When the directors of Royal realise they are loosing market share and profits are falling they may want to consider why? Ciao Royal, you have just shot yourself in the foot......again!

Good luck getting anything better with another line! I don’t understand why people get so worked up over a few perks. 

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, VTSKIandCRUISEGUY said:

But even that is incorrect. Sure, you can't get unlimited drinks in the lounge anymore (boo hoo!), but there is still a very nice appetizer and dessert buffet, along with friendly waiter service. And it's so much nicer now that it's not as busy anymore (lack of unlimited drinks keeps a lot of people away).

What kept pax on allure away. Happy hour snacks start at 5 pm. Early dinner is also at 5 pm. I dont want snacks after dessert. 

[goldfish65]

I was surprised how many people on a transatlantic had grim faces, and I even got snapped at for not getting out of a lady's way walking towards the stairs. Always something to be unhappy about.