MSC plans to become biggest cruise line. Will Carnival and the others prevent this from happening?

[CruizinSusan70]

5 hours ago, Joebucks said:

Their product is going to have a tough time winning especially in the American market. 

How about the cheap Carnival cruiser who lines up on the last sea day to come up with a lame excuse to remove their gratuities?  If rock bottom prices motivate this type of cruiser, then MSC will fit the bill.  They are even one step ahead since you can get basic wifi and a drinks package bundled with certain promotions that blow away the price on Carnival factoring in Cheers and wifi.

[styles27]

23 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

 

MSC wants to become the biggest cruise line in the world. I think that Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian would try to make this not happen

They may not like it but MSC is powerful and doesn’t have to answer to shareholders. 

[steveknj]

From what I read about MSC in the US market, it's not about bringing Europeans to come sail in N. America, but to get Americans to sail her in the US.  I think they are new here and they need to work to understand the US market.  Once they do that, I DO think they can put a dent in the current marketplace.  They are certainly advertising now a lot here, I think as much as any of the other cruise lines.  I haven't booked an MSC cruise yet, but my son is taking his first cruise on MSC out of Brooklyn and he'll give us the skinny on how it was.   Price wise it was VERY competitive to the other cruises coming out of NY.  The reason we haven't tried it is because it's the same tired ports, Port Canaveral, Nassau and their Private Island.   I've done that cruise enough times already to be bored with it.  If he likes it though, we'll probably give it a go at some point.

[steveknj]

48 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

How about the cheap Carnival cruiser who lines up on the last sea day to come up with a lame excuse to remove their gratuities?  If rock bottom prices motivate this type of cruiser, then MSC will fit the bill.  They are even one step ahead since you can get basic wifi and a drinks package bundled with certain promotions that blow away the price on Carnival factoring in Cheers and wifi.

 

NCL already offers that on most of the cruises already.   Doesn't stop people from sailing on the competition.

[styles27]

1 hour ago, steveknj said:

From what I read about MSC in the US market, it's not about bringing Europeans to come sail in N. America, but to get Americans to sail her in the US.  I think they are new here and they need to work to understand the US market.  Once they do that, I DO think they can put a dent in the current marketplace.  They are certainly advertising now a lot here, I think as much as any of the other cruise lines.  I haven't booked an MSC cruise yet, but my son is taking his first cruise on MSC out of Brooklyn and he'll give us the skinny on how it was.   Price wise it was VERY competitive to the other cruises coming out of NY.  The reason we haven't tried it is because it's the same tired ports, Port Canaveral, Nassau and their Private Island.   I've done that cruise enough times already to be bored with it.  If he likes it though, we'll probably give it a go at some point.

Was on Divina 12/30-01/13 the first 10 days we had 3800 pax 10% were US citizens. 
I felt like I was cruising in Europe and not in a good way. We loved our Mediterranean cruise on MSC in 2019. This cruise was an entirely different clientele from that one. 
 

[Stockjock]

I think they have a good chance to do this. But they'd need to capture more USA market share, which I think they're trying to do with expansion in the Florida area, plus apparent expansion into Texas.

If I worked for MSC, I'd try to figure out why my ships are getting so many 1, 2 and 3 star reviews.  I suspect it's mostly customer service related, but I'd be reading these reviews to gain insight on what issues could be corrected.

But I suspect that MSC has deep pockets and probably emerged financially far stronger during the Covid lockdown on the strength of their shipping business.  I believe that they are in a strong position to capture market share, but it may require some adjustments on their part.

I wouldn't mind seeing MSC move into my hometown of San Diego to do Mexico and west coast cruises.  Carnival and Princess abandoned us, so there should be plenty of capacity.  I know that we just did an upgrade of our electrical system at the Port, so that at least 2 cruise ships at once can be powered off the grid, rather than requiring the ships to run their engines and generators.

In SD, their primary competition would be Holland America, yet MSC could likely do some of this at a lower price point.  Disney also does some cruises out of San Diego, but I don't see them as being a major head-to-head competitor with MSC.  I think San Diego is a much nicer city and port to sail out of versus Los Angeles/San Pedro.  Plus, San Diego county has nearly 3,500,000 residents, so it's not exactly a tiny market.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Stockjock

[morpheusofthesea]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:19 PM, CarnivalShips480 said:

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/01/msc-goal-to-become-largest/

 

MSC wants to become the biggest cruise line in the world. I think that Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian would try to make this not happen.

 

What do you all think about MSC's goal to become the top?

It is inevitable considering over 11% interest on the debt. Their debt payment exceeds all profit for entire year. https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/08/17/why-royal-caribbean-and-cruise-stocks-just-crashed/?fbclid=IwAR1IswKLqyUcP_paKgIvgOr8zBL5thLWPhlW31vQgj_IKdNBpJf97sCYoQ4

[morpheusofthesea]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:31 PM, LouChamp said:

.  I would not be surprised if they try to buy some other cruise lines owned by the big three although they may not want to sell to MSC to save face

Was on the Seascape for New Years cruise and attended very informative coffee chat held in the Loft Cafe hosted by Cruise Director Gene Young. He worked for the last 20 years for Carnival corp as Cruise Director on Holland America. He joked about his retirement being dependent on Carnival still. That he in the beginning as CD on Holland had a staff of 20, until his final year he was the only one in his department. He continued that NCL has already approached MSC to have them take over NCL. That MSC refused saying they would rather build new ships and keep their ship building yards open.

[SeaShark]

Interesting to see that Cruise Industry News has edited their story and completely moved away from the "biggest cruise line" angle.

[Honolulu Blue]

11 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Interesting to see that Cruise Industry News has edited their story and completely moved away from the "biggest cruise line" angle.

Isn't the Internet wonderful?  There's only a few traces of the old story and its headline.  Big Brother would be so pleased! 😁

[SeaShark]

2 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Isn't the Internet wonderful?  There's only a few traces of the old story and its headline.  Big Brother would be so pleased! 😁

 Actually, the old story is still there. What was linked to at the start of the thread was an excerpt of the story...which is actually published as part of their online magazine. It is the excerpt that was edited to correctly read "best" instead of "biggest".

[shipgeeks]

4 hours ago, steveknj said:

From what I read about MSC in the US market, it's not about bringing Europeans to come sail in N. America, but to get Americans to sail her in the US.  I think they are new here and they need to work to understand the US market.  Once they do that, I DO think they can put a dent in the current marketplace.  They are certainly advertising now a lot here, I think as much as any of the other cruise lines.  I haven't booked an MSC cruise yet, but my son is taking his first cruise on MSC out of Brooklyn and he'll give us the skinny on how it was.   Price wise it was VERY competitive to the other cruises coming out of NY.  The reason we haven't tried it is because it's the same tired ports, Port Canaveral, Nassau and their Private Island.   I've done that cruise enough times already to be bored with it.  If he likes it though, we'll probably give it a go at some point.

The appeal to us, on our MSC cruises (apart from the fact that we enjoyed the food, the shows, the service, etc.) was the fact that most of the passengers were not Americans, and the cruises were not geared towards just the US market.  I sincerely hope MSC here does not become another RC/X/Carnival/NCL.  We enjoyed the feeling that we were "away", not just sailing with a bunch of our hometown neighbors.

As to the MSC private island, it truly is not like any other.  It was the highlight of our ports.

[dexddd]

21 hours ago, steveknj said:

From what I read about MSC in the US market, it's not about bringing Europeans to come sail in N. America, but to get Americans to sail her in the US.  I think they are new here and they need to work to understand the US market.  Once they do that, I DO think they can put a dent in the current marketplace.  They are certainly advertising now a lot here, I think as much as any of the other cruise lines.  I haven't booked an MSC cruise yet, but my son is taking his first cruise on MSC out of Brooklyn and he'll give us the skinny on how it was.   Price wise it was VERY competitive to the other cruises coming out of NY.  The reason we haven't tried it is because it's the same tired ports, Port Canaveral, Nassau and their Private Island.   I've done that cruise enough times already to be bored with it.  If he likes it though, we'll probably give it a go at some point.

On our sailings before shutdown, more non US folks on sailings out of US.

[steveknj]

23 hours ago, styles27 said:

Was on Divina 12/30-01/13 the first 10 days we had 3800 pax 10% were US citizens. 
I felt like I was cruising in Europe and not in a good way. We loved our Mediterranean cruise on MSC in 2019. This cruise was an entirely different clientele from that one. 
 

 

20 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

The appeal to us, on our MSC cruises (apart from the fact that we enjoyed the food, the shows, the service, etc.) was the fact that most of the passengers were not Americans, and the cruises were not geared towards just the US market.  I sincerely hope MSC here does not become another RC/X/Carnival/NCL.  We enjoyed the feeling that we were "away", not just sailing with a bunch of our hometown neighbors.

As to the MSC private island, it truly is not like any other.  It was the highlight of our ports.

 

3 hours ago, dexddd said:

On our sailings before shutdown, more non US folks on sailings out of US.

 

It's going to take time for MSC to be established in the US.  Europeans know the name and thus come here, but over time, especially with the advertising blitz, there will be more and more Americans.  I agree, they can't be exactly like the others, and having that "European" feel will differentiate it some.  Could be a reason why Carnival is bringing the two Costa ships to the US and are promoting them as "Cruising Italian Style".  Something new and different for the US market.

[shipgeeks]

I agree that there will be more and more Americans for the time being, but reading some recent posts (and some three or more years ago), I suspect there will be many who will try MSC for the price, but will not return as it isn't like their usual cruiseline.  I just hope MSC will continue to provide that difference, for those of us who appreciate it.

[styles27]

1 hour ago, shipgeeks said:

I agree that there will be more and more Americans for the time being, but reading some recent posts (and some three or more years ago), I suspect there will be many who will try MSC for the price, but will not return as it isn't like their usual cruiseline.  I just hope MSC will continue to provide that difference, for those of us who appreciate it.

We spoke to a lot of “one and done” folks on our 12/30th Divina cruise.
The low pricing was attractive but the cons outweighed the pros. 
It was our third time on Divina. First in YC in the Mediterranean in 2019 was fantastic. Second 11/2021 with less than 500 pax total…once in a lifetime experience. 
Went into this last cruise with high hopes but it was nothing like our first 2 “fairytale” experiences. lol

 

[Nunagoras]

4 hours ago, steveknj said:

 

 

 

It's going to take time for MSC to be established in the US.  Europeans know the name and thus come here, but over time, especially with the advertising blitz, there will be more and more Americans.  I agree, they can't be exactly like the others, and having that "European" feel will differentiate it some.  Could be a reason why Carnival is bringing the two Costa ships to the US and are promoting them as "Cruising Italian Style".  Something new and different for the US market.

...Really? I don't think so. MSC has "eaten" a good portion of the Costa market share elsewhere outside of the US... Then there was the Chinese long lock downs and the partnership for a new Carnival/China company with some new and way older ships... To refurbish a relatively new ships for Carnival to use as Carnival wouldn't to be cheap by any means. So, they decided to just brand them as "Carnival Fun Italian Style". They'll just to add the Carnival venue names on existing Costa ones and offer a somewhat Italian twisted experience on the US. It will just to be Carnival at a different way, but still Carnival. MSC offers an entirely different product. I also hope that MSC at least will retain most of its identity over the time there, while trying to solve some of the cultural challenges they are undergoing.

[CruizinSusan70]

7 hours ago, styles27 said:

We spoke to a lot of “one and done” folks on our 12/30th Divina cruise.
The low pricing was attractive but the cons outweighed the pros. 
It was our third time on Divina. First in YC in the Mediterranean in 2019 was fantastic. Second 11/2021 with less than 500 pax total…once in a lifetime experience. 
Went into this last cruise with high hopes but it was nothing like our first 2 “fairytale” experiences. lol

 

Certainly can't compare a Covid cruise and a Yacht Club cruise with a regular Fantastica cabin experience.   MSC in general is a cruise line that people have black and white feelings about, with not too much shades of gray.  They either love it or hate it, more than likely comparing it to what they are accustomed to and because of the stark contrasts, it leads to the polarized feelings one way or another.

[perakcruiser]

I really don´t understand anything that Carnival is doing. They destroyed Costa, a brand they desperately need to compete with MSC. Giving up the Chinese market is totally crazy as it obviously is the most important of the future. The only reason why AIDA is working well, Carnival let them do their business and does not involve too much. 

 

I have no doubt that MSC will make it to the top, their bosses are smarter. 

[mowogo]

3 hours ago, perakcruiser said:

I really don´t understand anything that Carnival is doing. They destroyed Costa, a brand they desperately need to compete with MSC. Giving up the Chinese market is totally crazy as it obviously is the most important of the future. The only reason why AIDA is working well, Carnival let them do their business and does not involve too much. 

 

I have no doubt that MSC will make it to the top, their bosses are smarter. 

The argument is that MSC put too much pressure on Costa for Carnival to continue growing.  The upcoming Costa by Carnival experiment is really a part of testing how little work they can get away with converting ships to repurpose them since MSC has been pushing Costa out of the EU market.  

[Honolulu Blue]

3 hours ago, perakcruiser said:

I really don´t understand anything that Carnival is doing. They destroyed Costa, a brand they desperately need to compete with MSC. Giving up the Chinese market is totally crazy as it obviously is the most important of the future. The only reason why AIDA is working well, Carnival let them do their business and does not involve too much. 

 

I have no doubt that MSC will make it to the top, their bosses are smarter. 

My perspective is a little different.  Yes, MSC did quite a number on Costa.  But the Corporation also has Princess, HAL, and P&O UK to pick up the pieces in the region.  I don't fully understand what Carnival is doing with Costa these days, but they've lost a ton of market share in Europe and mostly lost the Chinese market, so "temporarily" lending their ships to Carnival (who can use the capacity) makes a little sense and who knows?  It might actually work.

 

China might eventually open back up fully, but things are going slow there now.  Costa placed the biggest bet in the region of Carnival Corp.'s brands.  They may get back there yet.

[styles27]

6 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Certainly can't compare a Covid cruise and a Yacht Club cruise with a regular Fantastica cabin experience.   MSC in general is a cruise line that people have black and white feelings about, with not too much shades of gray.  They either love it or hate it, more than likely comparing it to what they are accustomed to and because of the stark contrasts, it leads to the polarized feelings one way or another.

Exactly! We know that now. 

Also can’t compare MSC in Europe to MSC in the US. 
 

I don’t care how beautiful their new ships are they need to figure out the rest of the important stuff if they want to be successful here.  

 

[Markanddonna]

5 minutes ago, styles27 said:

I don’t care how beautiful their new ships are they need to figure out the rest of the important stuff if they want to be successful here.  

 

Number one through three are their website, IT, and customer service. I found their CSRs to be pleasant but they are saddled with no answers much of the time.

[styles27]

41 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

Number one through three are their website, IT, and customer service. I found their CSRs to be pleasant but they are saddled with no answers much of the time.

Agree. That includes their CSR’s on board.
We purchased a last minute excursion to Blue Lagoon Island on board and the man who sold it to us at the excursion desk didn’t even know that the excursion included lunch.

They also didn’t have printed out literature explaining all of the excursions…just an order form listing them and the price. 
In fact when I specifically asked him about lunch he said no we had to bring cash to purchase food.
That also was incorrect. They accepted cards. 
I don’t know if it’s a lack of training or just poor training or the owners don’t want their employees to have too much information but it’s all of those stupid small irritating things that you don’t want to deal with on a vacation.
That needs to be cleaned up. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by styles27

[CruizinSusan70]

10 hours ago, perakcruiser said:

I have no doubt that MSC will make it to the top, their bosses are smarter. 

They need to drastically improve their customer service as well as their website on this side of the pond if they wish to increase their market share.  

 

Bringing over smaller ships that can compete with Carnival in the secondary markets (Tampa, Baltimore, Norfolk, Charleston) would also be helpful.

 

But in general they need to recruit management employees from the US based cruise lines in order to properly know how to cater to the US cruiser.  There are a certain percentage that will like the differences that MSC provides but in order to make major inroads they need to make the first time MSC cruiser from the states choose MSC as their primary line of choice in order to truly increase their market share.