NCL Returns to Tradition Muster Drill, Will Royal Follow?

[Plum Happy]

21 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

This is Cruise Critic. A statement from RCI means nothing. 

Umm, they informed Gene Sloan the same thing on the Points Guy website (who used to write about cruises for USA Today).  Just because RCI stated it, do you want if from RC Group instead?

Edited January 28, 2023 by Plum Happy

[Ocean Boy]

10 minutes ago, Plum Happy said:

Umm, they informed Gene Sloan the same thing on the Points Guy website (who used to write about cruises for USA Today).  Just because RCI stated it, do you want if from RC Group instead?

My point was that some people here will only believe what they want no matter the source. I wasn't doubting it. 🙄

[Plum Happy]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

My point was that some people here will only believe what they want no matter the source. I wasn't doubting it. 🙄

Alright.

[Joebucks]

I still don't buy that the traditional method is far and away better. As with any competing options, there are always pros and cons. On one end, we apparently give the crew this rare opportunity to find and herd cattle. What kind of secret techniques are the crew learning by practicing opening a room? On the other end, people get to actually hear where they go, where their lifejackets are, what features they have, and the opportunity to ask any questions.

 

I try to seriously picture different emergency scenarios. There are infinite possibilities. The first part we do know is it wouldn't be pretty. No scenario would genuinely prepare thousands of people. However, I'm putting my money on informed passengers knowing where to go and what to do. For example, could you imagine 6,000 passengers onboard, and most didn't get to hear where their life jackets are? At that moment, I couldn't imagine the hide-and-seek crew champions being the most important thing. When the passengers vastly outnumber the crew, the numbers prove how to limit the chaos. There are plenty of avenues to still train the crew. Is the fear that passengers would show up to their assigned muster and the crew would have no idea what to do? There are literally crew members controlling crowds all week. 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to them beefing up the current process in some form. I wouldn't say it's perfect. There really needs to be some sort of mandatory video incorporated somewhere. 

 

Carnival recently said NCL is only going back to the old method because it requires more crew. Carnival also claims that the Coast Guard has given positive feedback around the new process. That doesn't mean these statements are law, but they certainly are interesting.

[not-enough-cruising]

12 hours ago, gumshoe958 said:

Ultimately, it’s not Royal’s decision to make.

But currently it is their decision; just like it is for Disney and NCL; the latter two decided to revert.

[chengkp75]

15 hours ago, Joebucks said:

Carnival recently said NCL is only going back to the old method because it requires more crew. Carnival also claims that the Coast Guard has given positive feedback around the new process. That doesn't mean these statements are law, but they certainly are interesting.

And, yet, the author of the article that said the USCG has given "positive feedback" did not reach out to them for clarification as to what was the positive feedback.  Was it about training, was it about participation levels, were passengers interviewed, did the USCG witness e-musters?  Lots of unanswered questions about these statements.

 

I find it interesting that the USCG Cruise Ship National Center of Expertise, which is the USCG's center for training and investigation of cruise ship safety, and is the USCG's liaison with the cruise industry, has not issued any findings on the e-muster system. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by chengkp75

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, yet, the author of the article that said the USCG has given "positive feedback" did not reach out to them for clarification as to what was the positive feedback.  Was it about training, was it about participation levels, were passengers interviewed, did the USCG witness e-musters?  Lots of unanswered questions about these statements.

 

I find it interesting that the USCG Cruise Ship National Center of Expertise, which is the USCG's center for training and investigation of cruise ship safety, and is the USCG's liaison with the cruise industry, has not issued any findings on the e-muster system. 

 

I think it goes both ways. If it was this massive safety issue with untrained crew, I would have expected there would be more public calls for e-muster to end.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I think it goes both ways. If it was this massive safety issue with untrained crew, I would have expected there would be more public calls for e-muster to end.

Really?  You think the cruising public cares even the slightest, or has any idea of how the crew is trained to save them?  The cruising public wants one thing, a fun vacation.  Until a disaster happens, the public doesn't think it can happen, so whether the crew is trained or not, is not their concern.

[Joebucks]

19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Really?  You think the cruising public cares even the slightest, or has any idea of how the crew is trained to save them?  The cruising public wants one thing, a fun vacation.  Until a disaster happens, the public doesn't think it can happen, so whether the crew is trained or not, is not their concern.

 

I was referring more to authorities. 

[BND]

Those that don't watch the video or pay attention to the crew member when checking in at the muster station are the same ones that didn't pay attention when muster was in person.  We've cruised 35 times and I can tell you exactly what the instructions are and how to properly put on a life jacket.  There will always be problem "children" in every situation.  Those that are drinking a lot, those that don't follow any instructions or rules, ever and those that think any emergency instructions are "stupid and useless".   I can't tell you how many times I watched a few people at in person muster whispering to their friends, looking around everywhere except at the crew member and leaning against the back wall with their eyes closed.  Anyway, my point is, the emuster is just as effective for those that actually pay attention as the in person one was for the same reason.

Edited January 30, 2023 by BND

[chengkp75]

39 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

I was referring more to authorities. 

What authorities have jurisdiction over foreign flag cruise ship safety, other than the IMO?

[Starry Eyes]

1 hour ago, BND said:

Those that don't watch the video or pay attention to the crew member when checking in at the muster station are the same ones that didn't pay attention when muster was in person.  We've cruised 35 times and I can tell you exactly what the instructions are and how to properly put on a life jacket.  There will always be problem "children" in every situation.  Those that are drinking a lot, those that don't follow any instructions or rules, ever and those that think any emergency instructions are "stupid and useless".   I can't tell you how many times I watched a few people at in person muster whispering to their friends, looking around everywhere except at the crew member and leaning against the back wall with their eyes closed.  Anyway, my point is, the emuster is just as effective for those that actually pay attention as the in person one was for the same reason.

I agree.  As the old saw goes, you can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink.

 

I am s ask so comfortable with the life jackets and the instructions.  I experienced 79 traditional muster drills on different ships and lines before the shut shutdown.  So perhaps I saw even more problem “children” than you.  Some were more disruptive than you describe; crew would correct their behavior, they resumed bad behavior as soon as cree member walked away to attend to other guests.  Also, when guests are tightly assembled at muster stations those of us in the shorter half of the population often cannot see the demonstration.  It is difficult to hear due to disruptive behavior (worse if the person has a hearing impairment with or without a hearing aid).  So, in my experience substantial number of people at a traditional drill did not see or hear the information well for one of the above reasons.  I’ve done plenty of both drill and I’m willing to to do any future drill.  

[BND]

2 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

I agree.  As the old saw goes, you can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink.

 

I am s ask so comfortable with the life jackets and the instructions.  I experienced 79 traditional muster drills on different ships and lines before the shut shutdown.  So perhaps I saw even more problem “children” than you.  Some were more disruptive than you describe; crew would correct their behavior, they resumed bad behavior as soon as cree member walked away to attend to other guests.  Also, when guests are tightly assembled at muster stations those of us in the shorter half of the population often cannot see the demonstration.  It is difficult to hear due to disruptive behavior (worse if the person has a hearing impairment with or without a hearing aid).  So, in my experience substantial number of people at a traditional drill did not see or hear the information well for one of the above reasons.  I’ve done plenty of both drill and I’m willing to to do any future drill.  

One other thing we have seen a couple of times is someone pass out from standing in one spot in the heat.  

[lovesthebeach2]

I admit to not reading through this post so what I’m going to say probably was already stated, BUT no one would be late to The current way of muster if we weren’t allowed to get drinks until muster was completed! 

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, BND said:

One other thing we have seen a couple of times is someone pass out from standing in one spot in the heat.  

Military folk will tell you that comes from locking your knees, not so much the heat.  The trick is to consciously flex the knees slightly while standing.

[BND]

58 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Military folk will tell you that comes from locking your knees, not so much the heat.  The trick is to consciously flex the knees slightly while standing.

My DH is a retired US Navy Captain so yeah.  When one of my sisters got married, our youngest sister who was 15 (we were bridesmaids) started swaying and almost passed out from locking her knees.  I knew looking at her and the swaying that she was about to go down.  I grabbed her and made her sit and put her head down.  Everyone thought it was me at first because I was 6 months pregnant, but I knew better than to lock my knees.

[Mick B]

Hi all,

From what has been posted on YouTube bloggers, it looks like RCI is going to keep the e-muster for now.

 

Although I personally would be glad to keep this new way of doing things, I am a bit bias as I have cruised many many times with RCI and know my way around the ships and what to do.

However, someone new to cruising or to RCI probably will not. Is it not more important than anything else that everyone knows their way safely and quickly from their cabin to their lifeboat (Everything else can be sorted at the muster station). 

Surely, there must be a way of proving this has been done by all guests.

The old muster routine was to assemble at say 4pm at the muster station. At that time you could have come from just about anywhere on board so that wouldn't necessarily address this issue. You may not even have been to your room yet at this point in time either.

Now if there was some practical way to incorporate proving you came from your stateroom straight to the muster by using your device then surely that would be a very good reason to keep the new e-muster.

 

Anyone got any ideas?

 

Mick.

 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, Mick B said:

Now if there was some practical way to incorporate proving you came from your stateroom straight to the muster by using your device then surely that would be a very good reason to keep the new e-muster.

Why would you need to specifically show that you know the way from your cabin to the muster station?  Will an emergency always happen when everyone is in their cabins?  The best possible training would be to understand how to get to the muster station from anywhere on the ship, and even better, to know how to do this with a fire blocking the direct path from where you are to where your muster station is.

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, Mick B said:

 

Anyone got any ideas?

 

Mick.

 

It appears that everyone has ideas and opinions. 😉😄

[smokeybandit]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

even better, to know how to do this with a fire blocking the direct path from where you are to where your muster station is.

That could make the muster drill more interesting.

[chengkp75]

25 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

That could make the muster drill more interesting.

I can't tell you how many crew I've "killed" during a drill, because they reported to the on scene command by walking through the "fire".  It does give the medical teams a lot of practice, though.

[Mick B]

Hi all,

The only reason I suggested proving you could get from your cabin was because on average you would be in there from say 11pm until 7am which means 8 hours which is a third of your day, each day and at a time when it would probably be dark outside and you would be dependent on emergency lighting even more than during the day and also at a time when you may be a little tired and/or worse for the weather. 

 

I would suggest that if an emergency did break out during the night then this would be the best time to know where your are going as people may be in a panic and therefore not stopping to help/assist you in getting to go where you need to go.

 

You could argue that collecting your sea pass card from your room when it opens and then going to the muster station proves you took a route of some sort to get there. Would that be enough?. If so, then that method would work for both the old muster and the new one too so no advantage there.

 

Maybe the app could feature a game where you have to fill in the route on a 3D virtual ship detailing the route from your cabin to the muster station correctly and possibly even an alternative route if the most direct one was blocked. Then show this to the steward at the muster station upon arrival to prove you know your way from your cabin. 

 

Mick.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Mick B
spelling

[SherriZ366]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:01 PM, aubreyc1988 said:

I wish the e-muster would stay. I understand that maybe it needs to be tweaked, as it was put into motion quickly due to Covid, but I refuse to believe that the only option is to go back to what we were doing before, instead of just improving the e-muster.

Agree -- they can add relevant content to the video.  I really love the e-muster and hope that people who will not take a few, non-regimented minutes to complete the process do not ruin it for everyone else.   As steps are hard for me, we have to go down early so we can utilize the elevators for traditional muster and then wait until the elevators clear out to go back to our stateroom etc.  

[Mum2Mercury]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:49 PM, Starry Eyes said:

I think Disney already returned to regular muster.  They said some guests were noncompliant with digital muster.

Whereas all guests were all compliant with the old system? 

On 1/23/2023 at 2:07 PM, chengkp75 said:

... I know I'm in the unpopular minority, but I see this as a win for passenger safety.

I think going in person in a group probably is a better preparation for an emergency, but the digital drills sure are popular; I don't see RC ditching something the majority likes -- unless they're forced to do it. 

On 1/23/2023 at 6:28 PM, BirdTravels said:

... Right now, we normally don't get close to our real muster station,,,, just someone in the hall scanning cards ...

No.  We've sailed twice in the last six months ... once we were in the dining room, once we were outside on Deck 4, but both times we physically went to the muster station.  

On 1/24/2023 at 8:16 AM, time4u2go said:

Simple solution...don't allow people to purchase anything or use drink vouchers until they've done e-muster.  

That's a good idea.  That means all passengers would take care of this chore before drinking!  

[Mick B]

Hi,

 

Would that work for everyone?

 

I normally board the ship around noon and either go and do the muster first (if they are there as sometimes they don't start until 1pm), then have a bite to eat in the WJ or do the WJ then the drill. At this point in time my sea pass card is still on my cabin door which is still locked off until around 2pm, sometimes earlier. I do not normally have a drink at first lunch, although we do enjoy a glass of wine in the Champagne bar which they normally allow if you give them your details.

I think the e-muster should include having your sea pass card in hand to prove you have come from your stateroom, then after doing the drill, allow it to purchase items.

The only problem is now you are asking everyone to wait until after 2pm to do the drill making it more crowded again.

 

I still think a better way to do this....

Upon arrival on board the ship you do not go into the inside of the ship yet, but go along the deck to a member of crew who will show you a life boat drill and put your details in the system. Then afterwards you go to your actual muster station where another member of crew ticks you off to confirm you know where to go. (A member of crew could look after several muster areas at a time and save on staff as he could just move to wherever he is needed).

Again, the only problem is this doesn't prove you would know your way there from your cabin. I keep going on about this, but isn't this the most important thing. Remember it may be dark, there may be a power failure, lights may be on emergency settings only and the lifts won't be working so you need to know how to get to your muster station asap.

 

Another issue is anyone using the Royal Up who is still waiting for their new cabins to be given to them may now end up in a different part of the ship and therefore having a new muster station altogether, now do they need to do a new muster to prove they now know the new way to their life boat?

 

Maybe anyone that does the muster before the rooms open (and therefore not having a sea pass card) must return to the muster station with it to prove they now know the route and then get signed off.

 

At the end of the day safety for ALL on board must be the top priority. However, enjoying the maximum time you have on board is the trade-off.

 

I really hope they can keep the e-muster and just find a way to tweak it a bit more in order to make sure everyone who uses it gets the same standard as before the shutdown.

BTW does anyone else agree with me about the importance of knowing your way from your cabin to your life boat. Remember, although you may get familiar with the ships layout as time goes by, the emergency may come on the first night.

 

Mick.