Is HAL looking to disappoint Have it All Passengers

[REOVA]

18 hours ago, cbr663 said:

This indicates to me that the HIA promo is successful for some sailings. 

 

I have always noted in past sailings that HAL rarely fully books the speciality restaurants.  I wonder if that practice is still relevant?

I think it depends on the ship and staff. We had booked Caneletto 1 night and asked to move dinner 1/2 earlier. They said they couldn't due to capacity but show up earlier. When we arrived there were only 5 other tables seated throughout dinner. We asked about "capacity" and they said they were short staffed and were not booking full. Goes back to HAL not staffing fully for the ships needs (specifically Pinnacle Class). 

[cbr663]

15 minutes ago, REOVA said:

I think it depends on the ship and staff. We had booked Caneletto 1 night and asked to move dinner 1/2 earlier. They said they couldn't due to capacity but show up earlier. When we arrived there were only 5 other tables seated throughout dinner. We asked about "capacity" and they said they were short staffed and were not booking full. Goes back to HAL not staffing fully for the ships needs (specifically Pinnacle Class). 

 

We haven't taken longer cruises so our experience is very limited.  I do remember though int he past that every time we have dined in a speciality restaurant there have always been empty tables.  It will be interesting to see what our upcoming Alaskan cruise will be like.

[cbr663]

3 hours ago, DaveOKC said:

Last two cruises, both on the Eurodam within past 6 months, when we booked our free 5* Pinnacle and Tamarind meals we told them at booking that it is free.  No matter, as all 4 times they charged our cabin at 50%.  In the end we did get credit for this, but my question is, why should we have to hassle with this easy to understand perk??  Since it happened 4 times, even after telling them at booking and while being seated (with the manager), I conclude that it is a system problem.

 

Going on the NA (a sister ship) next week so lets see how that works out.

 

 

This drives me nuts.

 

We are making final payment for our Alaskan cruise next week and I have a list of things that I am checking to determine whether or not HAL will be our cruise line of choice moving forward.  Accounting/billing issues is one of the items.

 

Good luck on your upcoming cruise.

[Real NHDOC]

1 hour ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Well there sure are a lot of threads saying people are getting cabins for free that don’t ever go to the casino.  If it was one or two I could see it. Surely there aren’t that many people that stretch the truth.

You have to look at it this way.  They offer free/reduced cabins based upon past play in the casino.  They can't force people to gamble so if they take an offer and don't go into the casino then they'll fall off the casino discount list for future cruises.  It doesn't mean that over the lifetime of the program they don't make money offering free cabins to gamblers, it just means there are some who took advantage of it and chose not to play.  For them, they will lose the future opportunity to get the offers.  The ones who continue to play (and presumably lose money as they all do eventually) will get more offers in the future.

[Crazy For Cats]

2 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

What you say about the casino freebies may be true for some.  I’ve seen many, many posts saying they spent very little money in the casino.  I’ve also seen numerous posts of people getting free cruises that have never spent a dime in there.

I’m one of those that have received free cabin offers and have not spent a dime in the casino.  Latest was last week for a free inside cabin.  While there is some appeal we can’t be certain that we can fly out of Boston in the winter.

[Florida_gal_50]

5 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

You have to look at it this way.  They offer free/reduced cabins based upon past play in the casino.  They can't force people to gamble so if they take an offer and don't go into the casino then they'll fall off the casino discount list for future cruises.  It doesn't mean that over the lifetime of the program they don't make money offering free cabins to gamblers, it just means there are some who took advantage of it and chose not to play.  For them, they will lose the future opportunity to get the offers.  The ones who continue to play (and presumably lose money as they all do eventually) will get more offers in the future.

It's not about casino players though.  These are people that don't ever go to the casino according to them. I've yet to see one post saying I usually go to the casino but this time I skipped it.  Not even one.  I know people like to rationalize it but it doesn't sound rational to me.  I actually entertained a cruise for spring on hal.  Prices are very high. Then I heard hal was having some giant gambling situation on that cruise.  I won't be touching it with a 10 foot poll. Let them fill it with gamblers and maybe other freebies.

[ChinaShrek]

1 hour ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Well there sure are a lot of threads saying people are getting cabins for free that don’t ever go to the casino.  If it was one or two I could see it. Surely there aren’t that many people that stretch the truth.

Some of these people spend a lot of money in the spa or elsewhere on the ship. Also, a lot of people who received a free inside or ocean view cabin paid for an upgrade to a better one or bought HIA. This is all revenue for HAL. HAL will see what works to attract profitable cruisers over time.

[Florida_gal_50]

3 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Some of these people spend a lot of money in the spa or elsewhere on the ship. Also, a lot of people who received a free inside or ocean view cabin paid for an upgrade to a better one or bought HIA. This is all revenue for HAL. HAL will see what works to attract profitable cruisers over time.

I spent buckets of money in the spa last time, something I rarely do.  No free cruises.  Like I say I know people are trying their best to rationalize something that is not rational.  Many of us are buying upgrades to our cruises such as cabanas.  That is probably much more expensive than an upgrade to a oceanview.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[Hlitner]

We could get into a long and boring discussion (except for Economists) about "Opportunity Lost Revenue."  But suffice it to say that an empty berth represents opportunity lost revenue that is lost forever!  Filling that berth with a passenger who contributes just enough to cover variable costs plus a penny, is better (financially) than sailing with that empty berth.  We assume that HAL has calculated that certain persons, donate enough onboard revenue (via the casinio, drinks, excursions, etc) to cover their variable costs.  

 

If you want to see a shocking number, just calculate the weekly debt service on $32 Billion at current interest rates.  The problem for CCL is that they now have this huge cash drain to cover debt service, which is money that cannot be used to improve quality, services, food, etc.

 

Hank

[ChinaShrek]

15 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I spent buckets of money in the spa last time, something I rarely do.  No free cruises.  Like I say I know people are trying their best to rationalize something that is not rational.  Many of us are buying upgrades to our cruises such as cabanas.  That is probably much more expensive than an upgrade to a oceanview.

So, do you think HAL is just incompetent and attracting the wrong people? That's possible I suppose but again people are looking at HAL financials. I think they are using the free casino cruises to attract new or infrequent customers to HAL.

[3rdGenCunarder]

6 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

So, do you think HAL is just incompetent and attracting the wrong people? That's possible I suppose but again people are looking at HAL financials. I think they are using the free casino cruises to attract new or infrequent customers to HAL.

 

I doubt they give casino cabins to new HAL customers. But after Covid, they may be seeing the casino cabins as a way to lure back previous customers who haven't returned to sailing yet.

[Florida_gal_50]

4 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

So, do you think HAL is just incompetent and attracting the wrong people? That's possible I suppose but again people are looking at HAL financials. I think they are using the free casino cruises to attract new or infrequent customers to HAL.

What?  Wrong people? C'mon.  What does that even mean?  I fully think they are trying to attract new business.  They absolutely have to or die.  If everything is free, that's not bringing anything into the coffers.  

[cruisemom42]

I don't understand why there is so much angst on this board about the casino offers. Now granted, I may have this wrong, but it is my understanding that the casino offers aren't extended by HAL per se, but by the company that runs the casinos onboard HAL ships. Also my understanding that this company guarantees some baseline dollar amount to HAL for those cabins. Also seems HAL has not been sailing at capacity. So .... as has been said many times (including by the cruise lines themselves), their profit model depends on having customers on board.

 

If HAL is getting something for those cabins in their pocket, plus whatever extra is spent online, isn't that better than having empty cabins sailing?? 🤔  

 

Quite possibly it also fills the ship enough so it doesn't seem noticeably empty. (Before anyone starts responding about holiday cruises, I am not talking about high season cruises, as those do not tend to be the ones where casino offers are made.) The cruise lines like to keep insisting that ships are sailing full or close to full in order to avoid having to lower prices.

 

Again, I may be wrong because I know more about how Celebrity does this than HAL, but as far as HAL is concerned, it seems like a decent moneymaker when they need revenue and cabins aren't selling...

 

 

[Real NHDOC]

1 hour ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I’m one of those that have received free cabin offers and have not spent a dime in the casino.  Latest was last week for a free inside cabin.  While there is some appeal we can’t be certain that we can fly out of Boston in the winter.

I'm not saying there aren't free offers made to non casino people but it is the casino offers that I am speaking specifically about.  Those come from the cruise line and are made at the "casino rate" which can be reduced or free.  The cruise line may have other promotions to lure past guests back aboard when they have excess capacity but those aren't related to the casino.

 

If you're saying you were offered a casino offer and never set foot in the casino then you're very lucky!

[daisy-mae]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 Also seems HAL has not been sailing at capacity. So .... as has been said many times (including by the cruise lines themselves), their profit model depends on having customers on board.

 

If HAL is getting something for those cabins in their pocket, plus whatever extra is spent online, isn't that better than having empty cabins sailing?? 🤔  

 

Quite possibly it also fills the ship enough so it doesn't seem noticeably empty. (Before anyone starts responding about holiday cruises, I am not talking about high season cruises, as those do not tend to be the ones where casino offers are made.) The cruise lines like to keep insisting that ships are sailing full or close to full in order to avoid having to lower prices.

 

 

 

 

The cruises that are eligible for casino offers are not unlimited - there is a specified number of dates, and itineraries, usually off-peak or off-season, and the free staterooms are the less desirable ones. It seems to me that it would be an advantage for the crew to have a ship that is either at or near full capacity, as this would be reflected in the "crew appreciation" charges (which the casino offers do not cover).

[Damcruiser]

Back to the topic:

Is HAL looking to disappoint Have it All Passengers

 

My conclusion is yes.

 

All the criticism of cruisers who do not book excursions and dining times in advance does not take into account that HAL knows when restaurants are fully booked and excursions are sold out while they continue to offer the HIA option.  Some of us do not book years or months in advance but make decisions based on health or time off at work.  When we booked NS for our September 2022 cruise in July, our HIA program showed desirable times and availability for both restaurants and excursions were not available.  Stop blaming new cruisers for not being aware of limited space when they purchase HIA.  Blame HAL for trying to sell HIA while dining times and excursions are already sold out.

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

I don't understand why there is so much angst on this board about the casino offers. Now granted, I may have this wrong, but it is my understanding that the casino offers aren't extended by HAL per se, but by the company that runs the casinos onboard HAL ships. Also my understanding that this company guarantees some baseline dollar amount to HAL for those cabins. Also seems HAL has not been sailing at capacity. So .... as has been said many times (including by the cruise lines themselves), their profit model depends on having customers on board.

 

If HAL is getting something for those cabins in their pocket, plus whatever extra is spent online, isn't that better than having empty cabins sailing?? 🤔  

 

Quite possibly it also fills the ship enough so it doesn't seem noticeably empty. (Before anyone starts responding about holiday cruises, I am not talking about high season cruises, as those do not tend to be the ones where casino offers are made.) The cruise lines like to keep insisting that ships are sailing full or close to full in order to avoid having to lower prices.

 

Again, I may be wrong because I know more about how Celebrity does this than HAL, but as far as HAL is concerned, it seems like a decent moneymaker when they need revenue and cabins aren't selling...

 

 

I read the Princess boards fairly often.  It doesn’t sound like many of the cruises are at capacity but I could be wrong.  I was on the koningsdam the week before thanksgiving and the week of.  Both were over capacity.  The week before thanksgiving is not a holiday cruise.  Also I was told but multiple staff on the koningsdam that ALL the cruises in December were over capacity.  I was also asked to join a cruise with some friends that left on Jan 25.  I wasn’t able to because of work commitments but that has been sold out for at least 6 weeks.  The next 2 cruises after that are sold out.  This is on the Rotterdam so slightly longer cruises, not 7 days that may sell out easier.  Based on this it seems to me hal is doing pretty well with filling to capacity.  I would love to hear which ships are sailing almost empty.  Maybe you are thinking of March 2022 because that was definitely the case.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[Ipeeinthepools]

The Rotterdam is currently sailing at 80% capacity after all of the promotions.

[Florida_gal_50]

29 minutes ago, Damcruiser said:

Back to the topic:

Is HAL looking to disappoint Have it All Passengers

 

My conclusion is yes.

 

All the criticism of cruisers who do not book excursions and dining times in advance does not take into account that HAL knows when restaurants are fully booked and excursions are sold out while they continue to offer the HIA option.  Some of us do not book years or months in advance but make decisions based on health or time off at work.  When we booked NS for our September 2022 cruise in July, our HIA program showed desirable times and availability for both restaurants and excursions were not available.  Stop blaming new cruisers for not being aware of limited space when they purchase HIA.  Blame HAL for trying to sell HIA while dining times and excursions are already sold out.

Who is blaming new cruisers?  Space is always limited.  They don’t build an extra restaurant off the back of the ship or make a new restaurant out of empty “boardrooms”.  As one poster  mentioned hal sends out many, many notifications to book your “free” excursions and restaurants.  I do agree that it should be capacity controlled.

[Ipeeinthepools]

2 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Who is blaming new cruisers?  Space is always limited.  They don’t build an extra restaurant off the back of the ship or make a new restaurant out of empty “boardrooms”.  As one poster  mentioned hal sends out many, many notifications to book your “free” excursions and restaurants….

How would that help?  If everyone booked in advance the restaurants would still be oversubscribed and passengers would still be disappointed because they could not use items included in their HIA packages.  

[Florida_gal_50]

7 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

How would that help?  If everyone booked in advance the restaurants would still be oversubscribed and passengers would still be disappointed because they could not use items included in their HIA packages.  

I’ve yet to hear of anyone that was not able to book restaurants ahead of time.  I’ve heard of one person that couldn’t use their shorex immediately.  It’s very possible I’ve missed these posts.  If you have seen posts to say people couldn’t book ANY restaurants with their hia promos ahead of embarkation please provide a link.  It’s seems like a non issue or there would be a huge fuss about it.

 

I find it very interesting that people could be saying the same thing as I do but you only quote me.  Would love to hear why.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[lobsternight]

Having read this thread I thought I better book the Pinnacle for our upcoming cruise end of April.  We have credit for 1 meal each as part of another package, but am also inviting 2 family members and my son that is underage and should be discounted.  Figured I'd pay up and sort it out on the boat.

 

Due to my stupidity I now realize I booked our time too close to the end of an excursion.  I guess I will be calling in tomorrow to change times.  I did notice that availability was already reduced for many of the times that would have worked. We are 90 days out from sailing  

[Ipeeinthepools]

4 minutes ago, lobsternight said:

Having read this thread I thought I better book the Pinnacle for our upcoming cruise end of April.  We have credit for 1 meal each as part of another package, but am also inviting 2 family members and my son that is underage and should be discounted.  Figured I'd pay up and sort it out on the boat.

 

Due to my stupidity I now realize I booked our time too close to the end of an excursion.  I guess I will be calling in tomorrow to change times.  I did notice that availability was already reduced for many of the times that would have worked. We are 90 days out from sailing  

I suspect you will be ok.  Many people don’t book in advance but things get booked up very quickly once everyone boards.

[Florida_gal_50]

1 minute ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Because you are the one that doesn’t understand.  The restaurant capacity vs how many specialty dinners that have been sold is the issue not if you booked ahead of time.  I officially give up.  Enjoy your next cruise.

Yeah that's the reason 😀.  I take responsibility for my decisions, good and bad.  This is key.  Enjoy the rest of your cruise.

[foodsvcmgr]

Probably HAL should more strongly suggest that booked passengers reserve their dining in advance of boarding.

I’m trying to use my two credits for Rotterdam in October but website keeps saying unavailable, try later.

What is the time frame for opening reservations, anyone have experience?

On a similar note a shorex I was looking at for Bruges went up $20 pp last week.

So another lesson in timeliness learned.

As long as you’re reasonably sure you are actually going to take the cruise no good reason to hesitate completing your arrangements IMO.