There are still many Pros for cruising Celebrity but what are the Cons

[mpdog42]

6 hours ago, Orator said:

I believe that the non Suite passenger is no longer important to Celebrity. The demographics of the passengers has shifted toward the "new realities" The bean counted have won! The class system is alive and well at Celebrity. So far they have been rewarded by their shift in focus. I just wonder if they will be winners in there long run?

Mic Drop

[NutsAboutGolf]

10 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I honestly wish they would put the 5th E-class ship on indefinite hold and just work on current problems.  To me building another ship is insane right now.

 

I just hope there isn't a 6th E-Class ship

[rj59]

All lines are cutting back food options and increasing prices. I had the same mini-lobster on Princess a few weeks ago, but HAL has completely eliminated lobster in the MDR, as well as things like creme brulee. It was fairly sad to see the minimal evening buffet, especially after in Alaska last summer they had wonderful pleasures, like a creme brulee night and ramen and other specials, and the variety is important for the crew and officers who eat there. Personally, I ended up getting salads and to-order pasta most evenings. After getting the 'please give me a top rating after the cruise' plea from my waiter on the Solstice after the first night of my January cruise, I switched to the sushi restaurant in the evenings, with various kinds of ramen and sushi and charming, friendly, unrushed female servers, and I had a much better time than I would have in the MDR. Just as with Basic Economy on airlines, cutbacks and limited menus are a way to nudge you towards specialty dining, just as the glacial wifi is meant to encourage you to upgrade, and then every bar person strongly pushes upgrading to the premium beverage package. While I can sympathize with their shutdown losses, stock price pressures, mountains of debt, higher food/energy/debt issuance prices, and supply chain issues, I'm not married to any cruise line or cruising in general.  Last year was a dream year in terms of low occupancy, fun, and low prices, and I'm still enjoying deals I booked before protocols were lifted, including an average of $50/nt for solo inside on Solstice, some with all-inclusive. But the CEOs of the lines complain that they're too much of a deal compared to land travel and resorts and that they intend to rectify that, but if they don't offer a better experience and price compared to what I can get on land, then I'll choose other kinds of travel. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

24 minutes ago, rj59 said:

But the CEOs of the lines complain that they're too much of a deal

 

Just a marketing justification to make both passengers and investors feel better.  Like with all travel that uses the dynamic pricing model, if the ship is fairly empty there's a "fire sail" as the sail date approaches.  The next Mexican Riviera Solstice sailing on Feb 11th, 7 nights, for example, before fees and taxes an inside is $276/person and a balcony is $450/person.  Reportedly you can book an inside and on boarding day immediately go to guest services and change rooms to a balcony sometimes for no charge if there's lots of availability

[shipshape sam]

11 hours ago, Orator said:

I believe that the non Suite passenger is no longer important to Celebrity. The demographics of the passengers has shifted toward the "new realities" The bean counted have won! The class system is alive and well at Celebrity. So far they have been rewarded by their shift in focus. I just wonder if they will be winners in there long run?

I would agree with you on a focus on the concentration of suites.  We sailed Beyond in January this year and with the Retreat located forward, I only saw anything related to the Retreat while walking on the track.  I never got any sense of a 2 tier / multi tier class system.  Also not even sure where suite dining was.  Did walk by Blu on way to Eden on deck 5

 

I do not plan to ever sail on the M class of ships again due to the shrinkage of public space to install more cabins all over the ship.  If that happens to S class or E class, I do not see me sailing them either.

[Croooser]

For those considering O: while there are many X refugees now choosing O (including us), the one area that O does not measure up is activities and entertainment. 

 

O features smaller, less crowded ships with more inclusions and better food, but the entertainment is not equivalent to X or Princess IOO.

 

Lots of threads comparing X to O on the CC O board.

 

HTH

 

[Hlitner]

15 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Just a marketing justification to make both passengers and investors feel better.  Like with all travel that uses the dynamic pricing model, if the ship is fairly empty there's a "fire sail" as the sail date approaches.  The next Mexican Riviera Solstice sailing on Feb 11th, 7 nights, for example, before fees and taxes an inside is $276/person and a balcony is $450/person.  Reportedly you can book an inside and on boarding day immediately go to guest services and change rooms to a balcony sometimes for no charge if there's lots of availability

Those of us who have been cruising for a long time (we go back to the mid 70s) can recall an era where last minute deals where pretty normal and the bargains were amazing.  The mass market lines soon realized that they had created a monster (with last minute fire sales) and started to look for alternatives which is when we saw things like bidding programs,  making more last minute cabins available to special groups (such as the Interline program which is available to airline employees and other travel professionals).  

 

LLP has been in the industry long enough to not get caught up in the Fire Sale games, which would ultimately destroy her program of increasing prices while reducing costs/quality.  

 

I do find it interesting that at least one luxury line (the new Explora Journeys) has made it clear they are not going to fall into the price-game trap.  The CEO has made it clear that they will sail with empty suites rather than have last minute price drops.  In fact, that new line recently increased their prices, across the board, by nearly 20%.  That particular company has the deep pockets (MSC family) to stick to their word.  As to Celebrity, well like all the US-based cruise lines they are now hobbled with huge debt obligations.  If these cruise companies are to survive (without being forced into bankruptcy) they must generate enough capital to meet their big debt obligations while also maintaining enough quality to keep attracting customers.  I think it is akin to walking a tightrope and suspect that all will survive.  

 

Hank

[D. B.]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Those of us who have been cruising for a long time (we go back to the mid 70s) can recall an era where last minute deals where pretty normal and the bargains were amazing.  The mass market lines soon realized that they had created a monster (with last minute fire sales) and started to look for alternatives which is when we saw things like bidding programs,  making more last minute cabins available to special groups (such as the Interline program which is available to airline employees and other travel professionals).  

 

LLP has been in the industry long enough to not get caught up in the Fire Sale games, which would ultimately destroy her program of increasing prices while reducing costs/quality.  

 

I do find it interesting that at least one luxury line (the new Explora Journeys) has made it clear they are not going to fall into the price-game trap.  The CEO has made it clear that they will sail with empty suites rather than have last minute price drops.  In fact, that new line recently increased their prices, across the board, by nearly 20%.  That particular company has the deep pockets (MSC family) to stick to their word.  As to Celebrity, well like all the US-based cruise lines they are now hobbled with huge debt obligations.  If these cruise companies are to survive (without being forced into bankruptcy) they must generate enough capital to meet their big debt obligations while also maintaining enough quality to keep attracting customers.  I think it is akin to walking a tightrope and suspect that all will survive.  

 

Hank

You are %100 correct. Especially about MSC's deep pockets.

[TeeRick]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Those of us who have been cruising for a long time (we go back to the mid 70s) can recall an era where last minute deals where pretty normal and the bargains were amazing.  The mass market lines soon realized that they had created a monster (with last minute fire sales) and started to look for alternatives which is when we saw things like bidding programs,  making more last minute cabins available to special groups (such as the Interline program which is available to airline employees and other travel professionals).  

 

LLP has been in the industry long enough to not get caught up in the Fire Sale games, which would ultimately destroy her program of increasing prices while reducing costs/quality.  

 

I do find it interesting that at least one luxury line (the new Explora Journeys) has made it clear they are not going to fall into the price-game trap.  The CEO has made it clear that they will sail with empty suites rather than have last minute price drops.  In fact, that new line recently increased their prices, across the board, by nearly 20%.  That particular company has the deep pockets (MSC family) to stick to their word.  As to Celebrity, well like all the US-based cruise lines they are now hobbled with huge debt obligations.  If these cruise companies are to survive (without being forced into bankruptcy) they must generate enough capital to meet their big debt obligations while also maintaining enough quality to keep attracting customers.  I think it is akin to walking a tightrope and suspect that all will survive.  

 

Hank

And also Hank- maybe they should put new ships on hold until they make a dent in all this debt.

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

And also Hank- maybe they should put new ships on hold until they make a dent in all this debt.

Good point.  But I wonder how many of those new builds are locked-in by contractual obligations.  

[D. B.]

On 2/7/2023 at 6:19 AM, Orator said:

I believe that the non Suite passenger is no longer important to Celebrity. The demographics of the passengers has shifted toward the "new realities" The bean counted have won! The class system is alive and well at Celebrity. So far they have been rewarded by their shift in focus. I just wonder if they will be winners in there long run?

That became very obvious to us when we sailed on Edge in 2019. No Sky Lounge in the front of the ship as that part was all Reserved for Suite Guests.

[tfred]

23 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Those of us who have been cruising for a long time (we go back to the mid 70s) can recall an era where last minute deals where pretty normal and the bargains were amazing.  The mass market lines soon realized that they had created a monster (with last minute fire sales) and started to look for alternatives which is when we saw things like bidding programs,  making more last minute cabins available to special groups (such as the Interline program which is available to airline employees and other travel professionals).  

 

LLP has been in the industry long enough to not get caught up in the Fire Sale games, which would ultimately destroy her program of increasing prices while reducing costs/quality.  

 

I do find it interesting that at least one luxury line (the new Explora Journeys) has made it clear they are not going to fall into the price-game trap.  The CEO has made it clear that they will sail with empty suites rather than have last minute price drops.  In fact, that new line recently increased their prices, across the board, by nearly 20%.  That particular company has the deep pockets (MSC family) to stick to their word.  As to Celebrity, well like all the US-based cruise lines they are now hobbled with huge debt obligations.  If these cruise companies are to survive (without being forced into bankruptcy) they must generate enough capital to meet their big debt obligations while also maintaining enough quality to keep attracting customers.  I think it is akin to walking a tightrope and suspect that all will survive.  

 

Hank

I saw an interview with a Marriott executive a few years ago.  His statement was that hotels  don't do last minute room discounts since that "trains" customers to wait for the good deal.  Airlines also rarely upgrade or discount internationally for the same reasons 

 

if you have good product why give it away

[tfred]

51 minutes ago, Croooser said:

For those considering O: while there are many X refugees now choosing O (including us), the one area that O does not measure up is activities and entertainment. 

 

O features smaller, less crowded ships with more inclusions and better food, but the entertainment is not equivalent to X or Princess IOO.

 

Lots of threads comparing X to O on the CC O board.

 

HTH

 

We have sailed O and liked it for your same reasons pro and con

 

It is not a medium cost line by any stretch as it can approach X suite prices   It is still a good value but at higher costs 

[tfred]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:19 AM, Orator said:

I believe that the non Suite passenger is no longer important to Celebrity. The demographics of the passengers has shifted toward the "new realities" The bean counted have won! The class system is alive and well at Celebrity. So far they have been rewarded by their shift in focus. I just wonder if they will be winners in there long run?

the non suite pax is still important but there are certainly going to be some changes - you may call them cutbacks .

 

Suite pax pay for privacy and space - that can be in a resort hotel or flying first/business class.  They also pay for service and generally that means labor is higher but so is revenue and profit for X. You cant go to a resort hotel these days that doesn't have a set aside are/pool/lounge for higher paying guests.  Look at some frequent flyer boards discussing lounge access or even bathroom access on board a plane. 

 

previously X (and others) ran a ship like a Holiday Inn - everything was open to everybody.  Now it's a beach resort that has different areas for different guests .  If that mean the front of the ship if off limits then so be it.  Not many people would be disappointed if they can only see the ocean on 3 sides while on board.  

[NutsAboutGolf]

59 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Those of us who have been cruising for a long time (we go back to the mid 70s) can recall an era where last minute deals where pretty normal and the bargains were amazing.  The mass market lines soon realized that they had created a monster (with last minute fire sales) and started to look for alternatives which is when we saw things like bidding programs,  making more last minute cabins available to special groups (such as the Interline program which is available to airline employees and other travel professionals).  

 

LLP has been in the industry long enough to not get caught up in the Fire Sale games, which would ultimately destroy her program of increasing prices while reducing costs/quality.  

 

I do find it interesting that at least one luxury line (the new Explora Journeys) has made it clear they are not going to fall into the price-game trap.  The CEO has made it clear that they will sail with empty suites rather than have last minute price drops.  In fact, that new line recently increased their prices, across the board, by nearly 20%.  That particular company has the deep pockets (MSC family) to stick to their word.  As to Celebrity, well like all the US-based cruise lines they are now hobbled with huge debt obligations.  If these cruise companies are to survive (without being forced into bankruptcy) they must generate enough capital to meet their big debt obligations while also maintaining enough quality to keep attracting customers.  I think it is akin to walking a tightrope and suspect that all will survive.  

 

Hank

X is actively participating in fire sales, in my post you quoted, I just shared the fire sale price

[tomcruiser1234]

Wow,

 

We have been on 3 celebrity cruises in 15 months and it’s not been bad at all. 

 

The big cutbacks have mainly been seen at the ocean cafe in the evenings.   With the ship half full they just cant have every station open without wasting food or it sitting way longer than it should. 

 

The cruise industry is starting to finally recover from the worst catastrophe it could ever have happened. 

 

Relax all,  as the sailings fill up, the services as well as competition will improve all. 

 

Pricing will be better and the services will be better also. 

 

More they make the greedier they will be for more customers. It’s called capitalism. 

 

Go Celebrity go 

 

 

[Orator]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:59 AM, TeeRick said:

But the vast majority of the passengers on any ship are not in suites.  The non-suite passenger makes up for most of their revenue.  The far fewer suite passengers do give them more profit per cabin than the non-suite passengers.  That is for sure.

In my opinion: The cuts will continue as long as the affect on the bottomline is positive. We might be entering a new age of cruising. Celebrity sent a message ban to the Zeniths that the Retreat/MC was due to Covid and many thought that it would be permanent. That turned out to be the case!  I know of several cases when Suite passengers complained about Zeniths and Blue Chip Club members sharing their exclusive space. I must add that this was the vast minority of Suite passengers. This was the start of the process and it spread to other areas such as service, food and reduction of benefits.

[Cruise till you drop]

1 hour ago, tomcruiser1234 said:

Wow,

 

We have been on 3 celebrity cruises in 15 months and it’s not been bad at all. 

 

The big cutbacks have mainly been seen at the ocean cafe in the evenings.   With the ship half full they just cant have every station open without wasting food or it sitting way longer than it should. 

 

The cruise industry is starting to finally recover from the worst catastrophe it could ever have happened. 

 

Relax all,  as the sailings fill up, the services as well as competition will improve all. 

 

Pricing will be better and the services will be better also. 

 

More they make the greedier they will be for more customers. It’s called capitalism. 

 

Go Celebrity go 

 

 

We aren’t rich enough to sail in suites and sail on O so we’ve experienced Carnival, Princess and Celebrity and in our humble opinion, Celebrity wins hands down in terms of ship design, food and itineraries.

 

Never had an issue but of course, there’s always cutbacks and room for improvement that we understand and have rolled with the punches

[tfred]

3 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

X is actively participating in fire sales, in my post you quoted, I just shared the fire sale price

once you select non guarantee with booze, tips and wifi it is about $3k for two pax. One can certainly go bare bones but many wouldn't choose that 

[NutsAboutGolf]

3 hours ago, tfred said:

once you select non guarantee with booze, tips and wifi it is about $3k for two pax. One can certainly go bare bones but many wouldn't choose that 

 

Fire sale #1...Fare difference between a guarantee and NON-guarantee is only $85/person.  For a NON-guarantee balcony, with AI for two with fees and taxes is $2550, you also receive an $200 OBC which can be converted to cash using the casino trick making it effectively $2350...That's $1175/person.  Its rare that a 7 night balcony with AI non-guarantee goes as low as that

 

Fire sale #2...You do have to do research to locate the deals.  This same sailing, in Concierge, guarantee, sail only, fare/taxes/PRE-PAID tipping (so only missing drinks and the internet) = $1,755/total or $877/person.  For drinks, within the rules you can carry on two bottles of wine each and if you "forget" that you both already had 4 bottles in your checked luggage, that's a total of 8 bottles of wine.  Maybe someone has Elite CC status and receives drinks in the morning and from 5-7, maybe someone willing to play penny slots to gain free drinks and you can always charge the rest of the drinks.  With the internet, perhaps they have free minutes or the couple can buy wifi for one device and take turns

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by NutsAboutGolf

[D. B.]

On 2/7/2023 at 12:30 PM, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I just hope there isn't a 6th E-Class ship

Celebrity has made a smart Long Term decision with it's Edge Class Ships.

 I'm 80 and I do Not find them inviting and Yes I tried Edge in 2019.

 BUT my Son (age 50) would absolutely LOVE it and prefer it to the M & S class ships.

  X is looking at changes in Who they want to attract when My generation is gone and the Ships I like (M class) are gone.

 Thats good marketing research and planning.

 Because it's cheaper to Keep building a class of ship that's already In production than get back in line a few years later They see the debt as a long-term investment.

[Cruise till you drop]

27 minutes ago, D. B. said:

Celebrity has made a smart Long Term decision with it's Edge Class Ships.

 I'm 80 and I do Not find them inviting and Yes I tried Edge in 2019.

 BUT my Son (age 50) would absolutely LOVE it and prefer it to the M & S class ships.

  X is looking at changes in Who they want to attract when My generation is gone and the Ships I like (M class) are gone.

 Thats good marketing research and planning.

 Because it's cheaper to Keep building a class of ship that's already In production than get back in line a few years later They see the debt as a long-term investment.

 To each their own.  We’re baby boomers and love the Edge

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 minute ago, D. B. said:

Celebrity has made a smart Long Term decision with it's Edge Class Ships.

 I'm 80 and I do Not find them inviting and Yes I tried Edge in 2019.

 BUT my Son (age 50) would absolutely LOVE it and prefer it to the M & S class ships.

  X is looking at changes in Who they want to attract when My generation is gone and the Ships I like (M class) are gone.

 Thats good marketing research and planning.

 Because it's cheaper to Keep building a class of ship that's already In production than get back in line a few years later They see the debt as a long-term investment.

Just curious, what do you think your son would like about the E-Class that’s better/different than the M/S class?
 

I find the experience on all X ships, M/S/E to be nearly identical.  E-class has 4MDR which I suppose could appeal to those who want to feel like they went to different restaurants but to me, only the atmosphere is the different, the service and food (you can order Tuscan exclusives in Cypress) is the same.  The Eden which was a solution to a problem that never existed.  Even X execs seemed upset when they had to eliminate the forced interactions from Eden entertainers; they claim passengers didn’t appreciate the whimsical dynamic of it all.  Finally you have the IVs yet that’s been beaten to death, far more hate them than love them

 

M/S/E class service, food quality and entertainment are the same.  On a typical sea-day, if you’re lucky the highlight of the day time is a 45min lecture.  At night, you have one show repeated twice which is usually a musical every night but two and a passenger participation game/show

 

Cruising on X feels like cruising back in time mainly because there isn’t much to do.  You have to adhere to a rigid schedule with your dinner time or else you’ll miss a show.  The big three offer far more variety with entertainment and food venues.  You can see a comedian, sing karaoke or walk into a piano bar every night.  I still cruise on X primarily for the itinerary

[mpdog42]

8 hours ago, tomcruiser1234 said:

Wow,

 

We have been on 3 celebrity cruises in 15 months and it’s not been bad at all. 

 

The big cutbacks have mainly been seen at the ocean cafe in the evenings.   With the ship half full they just cant have every station open without wasting food or it sitting way longer than it should. 

 

The cruise industry is starting to finally recover from the worst catastrophe it could ever have happened. 

 

Relax all,  as the sailings fill up, the services as well as competition will improve all. 

 

Pricing will be better and the services will be better also. 

 

More they make the greedier they will be for more customers. It’s called capitalism. 

 

Go Celebrity go 

 

 

Sure!!! Checks in the mail...., I love you..... Etc.....🙄

[tomcruiser1234]

Well it sounds like a good strategy. Lol.