Celebrity Solstice - Pacific Coast Itinerary in Jeopardy

[CrazyTrain2]

Monterey, CA wants to BAN Cruise ships in the Bay.  Claiming endangering the Marine Sanctuary.

 

They are discussing and voting today 2/7/2023

 

https://www.ksbw.com/article/monterey-cruise-tourism-may-come-to-an-end/42782209#

 

"The city does not have the authority to allow cruise ships into the bay — that's left up to the U.S. Department of Commerce. But city council does provide security, checking people in and out as they arrive at the Fisherman's Wharf, per federal regulations.

 

If discontinued, security would be left to the cruise lines.

"This could essentially prevent cruise lines from coming into the bay anymore. And even if they do try to seek another contract with a company, I think this sends a very powerful message that we do not want cruise lines coming into the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary," Mayor Tyller Williamson said."

[JintyGirl]

Is this with immediate effect? Sailing in April with planned stop in Monterey 😳

[CrazyTrain2]

As far as the City offering "the last step" in debarkation and embarkation - Yes.  it takes effect immediately.  Now, whether the cruise lines take over that step or not is to be determined.  I also have a stop in April.  So we'll see what happens.

 

Here is a list of the ships that were supposed to Dock....

 

https://monterey.org/city_facilities/harbor___marina/cruise_ship_visits.php

 

Looks like the Discovery Princess is the first ship affected.

[phoenix_dream]

This is very concerning.  One of my favorite ports. In fact earlier today was talking about how much I was looking forward to our visit in March.  Love their world class aquarium!

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

"The city does not have the authority to allow cruise ships into the bay — that's left up to the U.S. Department of Commerce.

Close, but not quite correct, it is up to the USCG, which is in the Department of Homeland Security.  That person is dating themselves, as USCG hasn't been under Commerce since 1946.

 

3 hours ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

If discontinued, security would be left to the cruise lines.

This is also incorrect.  Each port has to have an ISPS (International Ship and Port Security) Plan, approved by the USCG, which delineates the security arrangements for the port, by the owner of the port facility, which in this case is the city of Monterey.  Even if the city leases the wharf to another entity, that entity has to have an ISPS plan, and the city would have override authority on this, as they can specify the allowed usage by the lessee.  So, if the city does not have an ISPS plan approved by the USCG, there can be no passenger boarding or landing at the facility, so the cruise line has no say in the matter.

[CrazyTrain2]

31 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Close, but not quite correct, it is up to the USCG, which is in the Department of Homeland Security.  That person is dating themselves, as USCG hasn't been under Commerce since 1946.

 

This is also incorrect.  Each port has to have an ISPS (International Ship and Port Security) Plan, approved by the USCG, which delineates the security arrangements for the port, by the owner of the port facility, which in this case is the city of Monterey.  Even if the city leases the wharf to another entity, that entity has to have an ISPS plan, and the city would have override authority on this, as they can specify the allowed usage by the lessee.  So, if the city does not have an ISPS plan approved by the USCG, there can be no passenger boarding or landing at the facility, so the cruise line has no say in the matter.

Never underestimate the power of a motivated participant.  You may be completely correct, but never count out deep pockets.  We'll see how it plays out.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

Never underestimate the power of a motivated participant.  You may be completely correct, but never count out deep pockets.  We'll see how it plays out.

I should mention that ISPS is an IMO convention, so to get changes to ISPS protocols, the "deep pocketed" cruise lines would need to lobby the IMO, not the US government.  As for "uneven enforcement" of the ISPS plans, first off, that is not how the USCG works, and secondly, again, the owner of the facility has the right to determine the usage of the facility.  I can't just start ferrying passengers to shore if the city does not allow it on the pier.

[lovecruzin]

3 hours ago, Rv6flyer said:

Santa cruz has. a pier?

Was it destroyed in the recent storms? And if not, is it technically part of Monterey Bay?

 

[wen_c82]

Discovery Princess’ March coastal already canceled Monterey port stop 2 weeks ago. 

[Jim_Iain]

5 hours ago, Rv6flyer said:

Santa cruz has. a pier?

 

LOL -- yes they have a pier better defined as a Wharf,  it definitely is not designed to handle large numbers of cruise passengers and can't imagine they could handle mobility impaired passengers.    This is just my personal opinion after living in Santa Cruz for over 30 years.  

 

While Santa Cruz is of a good size the downtown is not a major attraction.   The boardwalk and large wooden Roller Coaster might be fun. 

[Jim_Iain]

2 hours ago, lovecruzin said:

Was it destroyed in the recent storms? And if not, is it technically part of Monterey Bay?

 

 

Monterrey sits within the Monterrey Bay National Marine Sanctuary -  One of our nation's most spectacular marine protected areas.  

 

I do not think that dropping Monterey from the Pacific Coastal will have any impact on Solstice cruises on the California Coast.     As a matter of tact at the end of Covid we did a back to back and both Monterrey and Santa Barabara were pulled an we had a fantastic cruise with port of Ensenada, Catalina Island and an overnight in San Francisco. 

 

 

[lovecruzin]

1 minute ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

Monterrey sits within the Monterrey Bay National Marine Sanctuary -  One of our nation's most spectacular marine protected areas.  

 

I do not think that dropping Monterey from the Pacific Coastal will have any impact on Solstice cruises on the California Coast.     As a matter of tact at the end of Covid we did a back to back and both Monterrey and Santa Barabara were pulled an we had a fantastic cruise with port of Ensenada, Catalina Island and an overnight in San Francisco. 

 

 

I think we were on that cruise with you and Iain. I remember chatting with you, we used to live in Sunnyvale.

 

I didn't realize the MBNMS stretched all the way from Marin to SLO county. 
We’re lucky to be able to visit Monterey anytime, I imagine there will be some unhappy guests though.

[maggie.1008]

Living in California we have done many west coast cruises.

In May we are cruising on Oceania and have stops in Monterey and Santa Barbara.

 We are on the Regatta which is a small ship. 
Hopefully we will still be able to enjoy these ports.

[D. B.]

6 hours ago, Rv6flyer said:

Santa cruz has. a pier?

Not one that a Cruise Ship could tie up to.

 Just south of there in Capitola is a Concrete Ship that was beached in WW II when it started to break up.

 Don't believe it? Google it.

 Santa Cruise would make a good place to land Cruise Passengers because there are neat places nearby for Excursions like the Redwoods, The Mistry Spot and the Beach Boardwalk amusement park that has the Carousel from Eastwoods movie Play Misty for Me.....

 But the Tree Huggers would probably object.

[Jim_Iain]

1 hour ago, lovecruzin said:

I think we were on that cruise with you and Iain. I remember chatting with you, we used to live in Sunnyvale.

 

I didn't realize the MBNMS stretched all the way from Marin to SLO county. 
We’re lucky to be able to visit Monterey anytime, I imagine there will be some unhappy guests though.

 

It is an incredible National Marine Sanctuary.    Especially fragile from my understanding it the Monterey Bay -   There is an extremely deep Sea Trench  that helps a great marine diversity.

 

"Monterey Bay is home to one of the largest underwater canyons on the West Coast. Monterey Canyon twists and turns almost 250 miles (400 kilometers) out to sea. At its deepest point, it plunges to 2.5 miles (4 kilometers)."

[Jim_Iain]

52 minutes ago, D. B. said:

Not one that a Cruise Ship could tie up to.

 Just south of there in Capitola is a Concrete Ship that was beached in WW II when it started to break up.

 Don't believe it? Google it.

 Santa Cruise would make a good place to land Cruise Passengers because there are neat places nearby for Excursions like the Redwoods, The Mistry Spot and the Beach Boardwalk amusement park that has the Carousel from Eastwoods movie Play Misty for Me.....

 But the Tree Huggers would probably object.

 

Unfortunately the Capitola pier was severely damaged last month in a big storm we had.   Downtown Capitols is months or years away from recovery.  Joe Biden just paid a visit to see the damage.

 

I use to take the kids out on the Cement Ship after it became a "pier" at SeaScape State Beach.    Unfortunate last month's storm has now so badly damaged the USS Palo Alto that it is pretty much just rubble.    It was fun to go out on her.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Jim_Iain

[Cruising89143]

1 hour ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

Monterrey sits within the Monterrey Bay National Marine Sanctuary -  One of our nation's most spectacular marine protected areas.  

 

I do not think that dropping Monterey from the Pacific Coastal will have any impact on Solstice cruises on the California Coast.     As a matter of tact at the end of Covid we did a back to back and both Monterrey and Santa Barabara were pulled an we had a fantastic cruise with port of Ensenada, Catalina Island and an overnight in San Francisco. 

 

 

Agree. We’re doing a PCC on the Solstice in the spring. Seven nights with an overnight in San Fran, Santa Barbara, San Diego and Ensenada. There is a way around if changes need to be made. 

[phoenix_dream]

14 hours ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

Monterrey sits within the Monterrey Bay National Marine Sanctuary -  One of our nation's most spectacular marine protected areas.  

 

I do not think that dropping Monterey from the Pacific Coastal will have any impact on Solstice cruises on the California Coast.     As a matter of tact at the end of Covid we did a back to back and both Monterrey and Santa Barabara were pulled an we had a fantastic cruise with port of Ensenada, Catalina Island and an overnight in San Francisco. 

 

 

I'm not sure I agree. Monterey is one of the most desirable ports on that route. To have that permanently deleted would be a huge loss. Maybe as a Californian it doesn't matter to you as much as you can easily drive there.  I can tell you to me it matters a lot. Santa Barbara is very nice as is Catalina Island but Monterey and their fabulous aquarium tops them all.  I'm not saying it would necessarily make me never book a coastal again but it might be the tipping point depending what the alternative ports were.  We already don't have a lot of ports on our March sailing and if they just added another sea day I will be one very unhappy camper.

[CrazyTrain2]

Best case might be an extra day in San Francisco.  We can always take a drive down to Monterey.

[kguerriero]

As a tangentially related update, I just received an email from Celebrity that our May 6th Pacific Coast Itinerary has changed due to their "voluntary participation" in a new program to help whale migration (or something...) that reduces cruising speeds. As a result, our docking at Catalina has shifted, and we've lost our overnight in San Francisco for another sea day.

 

Disappointed as we were looking forward to a nice dinner in San Francisco. Not to poke the hornets nest but also wondering if this is yet another cost cut. Slower ships use less fuel. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by kguerriero

[davekathy]

8 minutes ago, kguerriero said:

we've lost our overnight in San Francisco for another sea day.

That sucks to loose a port and add another sea day to a short cruise. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by davekathy

[Arizona Wildcat]

The town certainly have enough tourists that drive to town and often eat and sleep in town.  Don't think the locals really care is cruise ships leave.

If the overnight in San Francisco is gone, so are we.  That being our main reason for a Pacific Coast cruise.

[kguerriero]

35 minutes ago, davekathy said:

That sucks to loose a port and add another sea day to a short cruise. 

 

Yeah, we're far from happy with the idea of spending another day on the ship, especially as we had built out plans to see a few different friends in SF. 

To spring something like this on us -with an explanation it was voluntary-  less than 90 days out is ridiculous. It gives the impression that X is doing whatever suits them by the seat of their pants and have little respect for the passengers spending quite a few thousand dollars to be on board.

[Fly and Sail]

California strikes again. 👻

[kguerriero]

1 hour ago, Fly and Sail said:

California strikes again. 👻

 

Considering it's the NOAA, the guidance comes from the federal level. I don't place much blame on them- they exist in part to be the stewards of the oceans, and I trust their recommendation is scientifically sound.

 

What's not great is Celebrity upending the itinerary after final payment without much regard for passengers in what's likely a cost-savings move.