HAL trending to 1st/2nd Class?

[LocoLoco1]

Back in the day, I noted ‘VelvetRopes’ aboard certain cruiseships that reserved areas for 1stClass guests. Seems HAL is nearly there now with all these $upcharged$ venues/menus, albeit without the rope. Q: From my InsideCabin in steerage can I, if I’m willing to $Pay an upcharge, access everything or No?

[3rdGenCunarder]

8 minutes ago, LocoLoco1 said:

Back in the day, I noted ‘VelvetRopes’ aboard certain cruiseships that reserved areas for 1stClass guests. Seems HAL is nearly there now with all these $upcharged$ venues/menus, albeit without the rope. Q: From my InsideCabin in steerage can I, if I’m willing to $Pay an upcharge, access everything or No?

 

About the only thing "steerage" passengers can't pay extra for is the Neptune Lounge. You can book an inside and buy the CO package to eat in that restaurant (on Pinnacle class ships). You can add a cabana. You can add dinners in Tamarind or Pinnacle restaurants. But the only way to get into the Neptune lounge is a neptune or pinnacle suite.

[LocoLoco1]

Thank-you. I can see how a Cruise’s price could easily Double. 

[Mosaic]

Holland America was much more a first class second class organization 10 years ago.

[OlsSalt]

The larger the ships are now becoming, this seems to be almost an essential trend - to carve out more premium spaces for travelers who previously enjoyed the intimacy of smaller spaces on the traditional cruise ships.

 

They offer a win-win option. Larger ships keep costs lower for mainstream cruisers - economies of scale; while still retaining some of their prior higher-spending customers who enjoyed more personal services and amenities in the past..

[Hlitner]

I think HAL still lags most of the industry and moving back to a true class system.  Consider that quite a other lines (i.e. MSC, NCL, Celebrity, Cunard) offer a ship within a ship experience for those in certain cabin/suite categories.  This includes dedicated eating venues, private pool decks, private lounges, and many other perks/privileges.  HAL has yet to even come close to that class distinction.  Even the Neptune Lounge is laughable when compared to the venues and offerings of other lines that have created a "1st class" experience.  Some would argue that this is a good thing (for HAL) while others might argue that this is another of those times when HAL is years behind the times.

 

Hank

[LocoLoco1]

Personally, I am OK with an ‘Ala Carte’ cruise menu;  here’s hoping CCL can prosper. 

[Florida_gal_50]

2 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

About the only thing "steerage" passengers can't pay extra for is the Neptune Lounge. You can book an inside and buy the CO package to eat in that restaurant (on Pinnacle class ships). You can add a cabana. You can add dinners in Tamarind or Pinnacle restaurants. But the only way to get into the Neptune lounge is a neptune or pinnacle suite.

Exactly.  I hear fairly often about a ship within a ship concept.  I think some are unclear on what that means.  Anyone can by access to club orange, cabanas or specialty restaurants.  Try to do that on MSC yacht club or celebrity lumiane (sp).

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I think HAL still lags most of the industry and moving back to a true class system.  Consider that quite a other lines (i.e. MSC, NCL, Celebrity, Cunard) offer a ship within a ship experience for those in certain cabin/suite categories.  This includes dedicated eating venues, private pool decks, private lounges, and many other perks/privileges.  HAL has yet to even come close to that class distinction.

 

And I am all for that. Long live HAL's refusal to go back to a caste system onboard their ships.

[Tampa Girl]

3 hours ago, LocoLoco1 said:

Thank-you. I can see how a Cruise’s price could easily Double. 

 

I don't see how you can possibly figure that.  Any of the cited "add-ons" are very much unnecessary and and not necessarily desirable.  IMHO, the Holland America ships are, in no stretch of the imagination, class-oriented cruises.  They are  not "ships within a ship."

[CNSJ]

Agree that HAL remains a primarily single class ship and do hope it stays that way.  We are finally 4 star mariners after cruising the past 12 years (covid delayed use few years) but have tried a few other lines.  Celebrity has the AQUA CLASS, SUITE CLASS...RETREAT, MSC has its YACHT CLUB, and NCL has the HAVEN.  CUNARD.....still beckons the days of British Peerage...

 

Maybe HAL has resisted this because of its large number of 5 Star Guests that dependably book Deck 1 Amidship Oceanview Cabins for 90 plus days a year.  Keep the base happy.

 

I'd cruise twice as much for Oceanview/Inside  prices, but my DW said no balcony...no trip.

 

 

 

 

[AFNavigator]

1 hour ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Exactly.  I hear fairly often about a ship within a ship concept.  I think some are unclear on what that means.  Anyone can by access to club orange, cabanas or specialty restaurants.  Try to do that on MSC yacht club or celebrity lumiane (sp).

Also, considering the "midsize" status of even HAL's largest Pinnacle Class ships, the Ship Within a Ship concept might be difficult to install on HAL ships.  Doing so would certainly require taking away many current features to make space for the Ship Within a Ship area.  Many of the vessels configured to be a Ship Within a Ship are significantly larger than HAL ships...30% to 50% to as much as 100+% larger.

[LocoLoco1]

45 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

I don't see how you can possibly figure that.  Any of the cited "add-ons" are very much unnecessary and and not necessarily desirable.  IMHO, the Holland America ships are, in no stretch of the imagination, class-oriented cruises.  They are  not "ships within a ship."

I’ll venture I could far MORE than double the cost of a HAL basic fare by simply signing up for the various $upcharges$. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Okay, my screen name gives me away, but I have to defend Cunard. Cunard always gets mentioned as the ship with a class system. Too many people have seen Titanic and think that kind of class distinction still exists on Cunard. But other ships have more separate areas for the "privileged." They call it "ship within a ship," but it's a class system. 

 

Yes, QE2 was built to be 2-class. The Queens Room was for first class, as were certain dining rooms. The stairway and elevators that served the first-class cabins didn't reach all the way down to 'steerage--I remember seeing passengers on the lowest deck trying to find the D elevators. They didn't go to decks that had no first-class cabins.  

 

The France (from the same era) was built to be even more divided by class. First class dining room and second class dining room. First class and second class pool. (QE2's pools were never divided by class) There were separate shopping times in the onboard shops. That all ended when she became the Norway. (Basically, as she was run by NCL, she had no class at all. It was a disgrace)

 

This was the traditional ocean liner experience. HAL's ships were like that in the "old days," too. Walk around the hallways with the vintage photos. You'll see references to first and second class kids' playrooms. I think I even saw a photo of a third-class kitchen. 

 

Almost all of the class separation went away on Cunard about 35 years ago. And has continued in the same way since then. There are separate dining rooms, depending on how much you pay (not your listing in Burke's Peerage). There is one lounge, rather like the Neptune Lounge (booze isn't free there, either) for the Grills. There is one deck area for the grills. And that's it.   No separate pool like NCL's Haven. Grills passengers can stay in their suite and their restaurant and their lounge, but most come out to join the rest of us at the casino, theater, showroom, the various bars with music. Nobody on a Cunard ship walks around with a different tote bag that says "I'm special!" 

 

It's like flying. Pay more, get more. The good thing about HAL's system is that you can pick and choose which upgrades you want. 

 

 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

The larger the ships are now becoming, this seems to be almost an essential trend - to carve out more premium spaces for travelers who previously enjoyed the intimacy of smaller spaces on the traditional cruise ships.

 

They offer a win-win option. Larger ships keep costs lower for mainstream cruisers - economies of scale; while still retaining some of their prior higher-spending customers who enjoyed more personal services and amenities in the past..

 

I wish I could remember where I saw it but there was something recently about a megaship that's going to divide the ship into "neighborhoods." You don't have to walk the length of the ship for anything. You choose the "neighborhood" you want and it's all there for you. So it sounds like they're designing the ship with multiples of everything. Sound like expensive construction.

[seaoma]

9 minutes ago, AFNavigator said:

Also, considering the "midsize" status of even HAL's largest Pinnacle Class ships, the Ship Within a Ship concept might be difficult to install on HAL ships.  Doing so would certainly require taking away many current features to make space for the Ship Within a Ship area.  Many of the vessels configured to be a Ship Within a Ship are significantly larger than HAL ships...30% to 50% to as much as 100+% larger.

 

Disney has managed to put some things on their small ships, Wonder and Dream that are 83,000 tons and yes, they took away some public areas. It's really obnoxious on a small ship.

 

People here are talking about how it's all accessible if you want to spend the money, but that is one of the things that seperates the classes..... those that have it and those that don't. I don't think we are talking about 1st class and 2nd class as experiences but maybe I misunderstood the OP.

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 minutes ago, seaoma said:

 

Disney has managed to put some things on their small ships, Wonder and Dream that are 83,000 tons and yes, they took away some public areas. It's really obnoxious on a small ship.

 

People here are talking about how it's all accessible if you want to spend the money, but that is one of the things that seperates the classes..... those that have it and those that don't. I don't think we are talking about 1st class and 2nd class as experiences but maybe I misunderstood the OP.

 

When HAL converted Promenade Deck cabins to lanais space and deck chairs that had been for everyone were reserved for the lanai passengers. HAL put cabanas by the midship pool on some of the ships, taking away space for tables and chairs along one of the glass walls. Bit by bit, space for all becomes space for some. It's everywhere.

[seaoma]

Just now, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

When HAL converted Promenade Deck cabins to lanais space and deck chairs that had been for everyone were reserved for the lanai passengers. HAL put cabanas by the midship pool on some of the ships, taking away space for tables and chairs along one of the glass walls. Bit by bit, space for all becomes space for some. It's everywhere.

 

Yes, it's definitely creeping in on almost every deck. I can forsee a future when I will think it's just too much.

[Hlitner]

35 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

......................

Nobody on a Cunard ship walks around with a different tote bag that says "I'm special!" 

..................

Interesting that you posted that statement.  HAL is the only line when I have seen some folks wear their Medallions around their neck (long after the luncheon) and many love to have on their 4-5* pins.  The first time we cruised on Seabourn we could not tell the long-time veterans from we newbies...at least by looking.  On that line it was very rare for folks to ask us (what level are you).  What was more common was folks asking about travel experience and other lines.

 

I do also think that HAL qualifies as the most clickish of all the cruise lines we have cruised (and its now 16).  I say this as a 5* Mariner, but we have met more than a few HAL cruisers who do not want much to do with newbies... "ahhhh so you are ONLY 2 *!"   I am sure this only represents a small minority of HAL loyalists, but it does exist.  But, of course, we will take one of Grand Cruise totes on our next HAL cruise :).  Before we get labeled a hypocrite, those bags are simply better than the regular bags.  

 

Hank

[ChinaShrek]

12 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

 

 

I do also think that HAL qualifies as the most clickish of all the cruise lines we have cruised (and its now 16).  I say this as a 5* Mariner, but we have met more than a few HAL cruisers who do not want much to do with newbies... "ahhhh so you are ONLY 2 *!"   I am sure this only represents a small minority of HAL loyalists, but it does exist.  But, of course, we will take one of Grand Cruise totes on our next HAL cruise :).  Before we get labeled a hypocrite, those bags are simply better than the regular bags.  

 

Hank

I think this is an interesting observation. I like HAL for the type of passenger that seems to gravitate to HAL. I have been on 12 HAL cruises and I find HAL passengers to be older, highly educated, international, and slightly above middle class. I also find HAL passengers to be extremely friendly and I look forward to interacting with them. What can I compare this to? only Carnival and Royal Caribbean. I do not really like the passenger mix of these two cruise lines and I am willing to pay more to be around people l enjoy.  

[shippmates]

To me Royal Caribbean is more of a caste system.  On most of the cruises which are many on Royal, you see passengers wearing there shirts, hats or any other visible items that all state they are Pinnacle.  I heard someone stopping to a passenger and called them Pinnacle as they thought it was their name.  I have no desire to advertise what level I am with a cruise line.

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

When HAL converted Promenade Deck cabins to lanais space and deck chairs that had been for everyone were reserved for the lanai passengers. HAL put cabanas by the midship pool on some of the ships, taking away space for tables and chairs along one of the glass walls. Bit by bit, space for all becomes space for some. It's everywhere.

Now I can see your point with the lido cabanas.  There is one person this board that gets super angry about the retreat cabanas.  I don’t get it.  It’s was wasted space on the older ships and I don’t see it being prime real estate on the newer ones.  Just something to complain about.

[highscar]

Please no “class”.  1953 sailing from Liverpool to Montreal thanks to dads company we had our own bathroom.  

There were classes on board. We did not have to go down the hall to use facilities. Decks were assign to your class. 

[mariner]

Since the early 2000's, HAL has been a mass market product. Gone are the days when you purchased a suite and received nice perks to offset the cost. Now anyone who has earned their stars can enjoy most of those perks, dilluting it for those who pay.

 

HAL always treated each passenger to the same food, service and bar tab. But it was nice in suites knowing the extra fare brought laundry, Neptune, an exclusive party, a guarantee on the dining table you wanted and usually stewards who were very experienced.

[LocoLoco1]

A Premium experience for a Premium $price$ vs a Budget voyage for cheap aboard 1 ship has been around for centuries. Methinks HAL nearly has ‘a ship within a ship’ now ie Hydro-Spa Rm, Cabanas, PinnacleDining ‘No Lobster 4U’ etc. but without the Velvet Rope, as least for now.. Back in the day, when disembarking from a long Cunard cruise, I commented to my spouse, “All those folks have been on the boat with US?? I don’t recognize a face.”