Legionnaire's Disease on Prima

[happy cruzin]

3 hours ago, schmoopie17 said:

Error...tried uploading the letter but couldn't do it. Maybe I need to call my six year-old grandson for help.

 

Here is the actual letter received. 

[GeezerCouple]

49 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

Sailed on the Jan 15 sailing. No letter (and no Legionnaires’ disease *knocks on wood*). As others have said this wording must be due to incubation periods; if we caught it we'd know by now. Still odd they've left out the sailings in-between these dates.

 

That's not necessarily wise.

 

What if someone(s) from an earlier sailing (before the dates listed in the letter) are indeed sick with Legionnaires, but it hasn't been properly identified.  It's probably not the first thing on the minds of a non-specialist's mind.  So "this cough" keeps spreading...

 

Not everyone gets desperately ill... until someone does.

 

If this is CDC protocol, then - I'm very surprised.

 

GC

 

 

[Sailing12Away]

54 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

That's not necessarily wise.

 

What if someone(s) from an earlier sailing (before the dates listed in the letter) are indeed sick with Legionnaires, but it hasn't been properly identified.  It's probably not the first thing on the minds of a non-specialist's mind.  So "this cough" keeps spreading...

 

Not everyone gets desperately ill... until someone does.

 

If this is CDC protocol, then - I'm very surprised.

 

GC

 

 

Those folks may have received a different letter. One that says if you have had any of the following symptoms or were recently diagnosed with Legionella.... 

 

Folks on the later sailing are marketed with what to look for if it comes up, whereas less recent sailings may be marketed similar to those horrible lawyer commercials that start with "if you were a victim of xyz.... you may be entitled to compensation...". 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Bottleinthewater said:

My dad travelled in the Norwegian Prima from Feb 5th for a week. He flew back to Montreal he was very sick. Monday morning I called the ambulance. Upon arrival at the emergency room, he was unstable. He had all of the Legionella symptoms. My dad is currently in the ICU  and almost died. He is getting a bit better since yesterday but still fragile. The MDs here thought he had Legionella and started the appropriate antibiotics quickly. We are waiting for the results of the sputum culture. What a week!

Another wish for your father to keep getting better.

[Pat.D]

3 hours ago, Bottleinthewater said:

My dad travelled in the Norwegian Prima from Feb 5th for a week. He flew back to Montreal he was very sick. 

 

I really hope your father gets better soon.  This is quite concerning. 😞

 

I sailed the Prima the week of Jan 8 and had pretty nasty gastro intestinal issues for 48h.  I suffer from IBS so this isn't unusual for me, I thought I was having yet another flareup.  But speaking to many people I travelled with it would seem many of them suffered from symptoms akin to Norovirus (very similar to my my IBS symptoms) so an outbreak is possible.

 

Noro and C19 are all part of the unpleasant risks of cruising we all accept, but Legionnaires Disease is quite concerning.  

[Cruise5life]

https://www.cruisehive.com/norwegian-reaches-out-to-passengers-regarding-a-past-sailing/94727

[bortman23]

1 hour ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

That's not necessarily wise.

 

What if someone(s) from an earlier sailing (before the dates listed in the letter) are indeed sick with Legionnaires, but it hasn't been properly identified.  It's probably not the first thing on the minds of a non-specialist's mind.  So "this cough" keeps spreading...

 

Not everyone gets desperately ill... until someone does.

 

If this is CDC protocol, then - I'm very surprised.

 

GC

 

 

 

Of course, but if NCL only knows now, telling individuals who already had it, and/or know they had it doesn't change much. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by bortman23

[eileeshb]

4 hours ago, Bottleinthewater said:

My dad travelled in the Norwegian Prima from Feb 5th for a week. He flew back to Montreal he was very sick. Monday morning I called the ambulance. Upon arrival at the emergency room, he was unstable. He had all of the Legionella symptoms. My dad is currently in the ICU  and almost died. He is getting a bit better since yesterday but still fragile. The MDs here thought he had Legionella and started the appropriate antibiotics quickly. We are waiting for the results of the sputum culture. What a week!

best wishes and get well soon to your father! Certainly seems that NCL have not gotten to the source of the contamination if he picked it up on a sailing that recently. 

[GeezerCouple]

24 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

Of course, but if NCL only knows now, telling individuals who already had it, and/or know they had it doesn't change much. 

 

But it's *possible* that it could make a difference if some appropriate persons have the relevant information such that someone gets treated more promptly or it doesn't spread further.

 

IF the returning guests (from those particular cruises) perhaps passed it on to others in their family or friends/etc. (perhaps without ever realizing they had it themselves), then it might be useful to test any contacts who appear symptomatic, *before* someone who is more fragile becomes critically ill.

 

GC

[bortman23]

11 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

But it's *possible* that it could make a difference if some appropriate persons have the relevant information such that someone gets treated more promptly or it doesn't spread further.

 

IF the returning guests (from those particular cruises) perhaps passed it on to others in their family or friends/etc. (perhaps without ever realizing they had it themselves), then it might be useful to test any contacts who appear symptomatic, *before* someone who is more fragile becomes critically ill.

 

GC

 

Per the CDC you cannot get it from other people: "In general, people do not spread Legionnaires’ disease and Pontiac fever to other people"

 

[GeezerCouple]

28 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

Per the CDC you cannot get it from other people: "In general, people do not spread Legionnaires’ disease and Pontiac fever to other people"

 

Ah, in that case, thank you!  If so, that makes a huge difference indeed!  

(I admit the "in general" makes me slightly uneasy.)

 

But I still strongly think they should notify everyone on the other cruise dates as well, in case someone IS sick, and has not been properly diagnosed/treated, and may not be recovering properly, etc.  A "possible exposure" or "diagnosis to consider" could be helpful, and shouldn't upset anyone who wasn't sick.

If anything, "good to know we'd be notified IF there were something like this", etc...

 

GC

[J0Y0US]

It's concerning it could go for that long without being detected. They must only test every 3+ months.

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, J0Y0US said:

It's concerning it could go for that long without being detected. They must only test every 3+ months.

Water is tested monthly.  However, not every single shower head is tested, and Legionella will not live in the chlorinated water circulating around ships.  It will develop in a place where water and air are both present, the water has been stationary for a few hours so that the chlorine has dissipated (inside the shower head itself).  So, unless you test the positive shower head as part of the random testing, you won't know the bacteria is there.  Additionally, ship's shower heads are required to be fitted with backflow preventers, which would keep the contaminated water from migrating in any way back from the shower head into the circulating system (homes don't have this).

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Cruise5life said:

I know for a fact one person has died from legionella from my Jan 6th cruise through panama.      and nothing from NCL.

Can you enlighten us as to how you know this fact?

[Cruise5life]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Can you enlighten us as to how you know this fact?

Here’s her post.   Don’t wanna show his pic with out her permission.   
 

1 am looking for information from anyone aboard NCL
Joy 15 day Panama Canal cruise leaving from LA Jan.
6th, 2023 to Miami. My dad was aboard and got sick
after leaving the Guatemala port. They got him to a
hospital in Panama. He passed away about a week
after leaving the ship from legionella
pneumonia(Legionnaires Disease).
Does anyone know of others who were sick or of any
notifications from NCL about Legionella?
This is my dad…in case any of you met him. He
enjoyed meeting people on his travels.

[nyc12345]

We were on the 11/19 sailing, didn't get any email/letter from NCL about this though.  Do they only let new cruisers know or are they in the process of informing all past guests?  Or do they selectively inform some past guests?

Edited February 20, 2023 by nyc12345

[bortman23]

On 2/18/2023 at 8:23 PM, GeezerCouple said:

 

Ah, in that case, thank you!  If so, that makes a huge difference indeed!  

(I admit the "in general" makes me slightly uneasy.)

 

But I still strongly think they should notify everyone on the other cruise dates as well, in case someone IS sick, and has not been properly diagnosed/treated, and may not be recovering properly, etc.  A "possible exposure" or "diagnosis to consider" could be helpful, and shouldn't upset anyone who wasn't sick.

If anything, "good to know we'd be notified IF there were something like this", etc...

 

GC

 

Yes, I agree, they really should inform everyone. I was on the 01/15 sailing and it would have been nice to hear it from them rather than Cruise Critic 🤣

[bortman23]

9 hours ago, J0Y0US said:

It's concerning it could go for that long without being detected. They must only test every 3+ months.

 

NCL was informed by a past guest who sailed with them. There's no proof they contracted it on the ship. NCL was (likely) only notified recently.

 

Much of what I've read is that Legionnaires is very rare in such a new water system. And that it usually appears in "not well maintained systems", very unusual for a brand new ship.

 

[agendagirl2004]

I just received this letter for the sailing we are going on March 19th. I really don't feel comfortable going after reading all the comments here and in other places. I have been searching on Norwegian to find out what my options are at this point but have been unable to find anything. I also don't understand why they have not completely checked the ship. I have been trying to find anything on the CDC website but have been unable to find anything referring to this specific incident. From what I have been reading my understanding is it comes from water sources,,, their water and I just don't understand why there is no where to find out what they have done. I do see on another cruise line that the CDC mentions what they have done but nothing on Norwegian.

[schmoopie17]

7 minutes ago, agendagirl2004 said:

I just received this letter for the sailing we are going on March 19th. I really don't feel comfortable going after reading all the comments here and in other places.

I am the original poster on this topic and I have to say I'm shocked that this has dragged on for so long. Surely they would have resolved the situation prior to a March 19 cruise...unless it's more serious than they're letting on.

 

Having said that, I don't know if I wouldn't sail on the Prima solely because of this (we have other reasons why we wouldn't do the Prima again).

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, agendagirl2004 said:

I just received this letter for the sailing we are going on March 19th. I really don't feel comfortable going after reading all the comments here and in other places. I have been searching on Norwegian to find out what my options are at this point but have been unable to find anything. I also don't understand why they have not completely checked the ship. I have been trying to find anything on the CDC website but have been unable to find anything referring to this specific incident. From what I have been reading my understanding is it comes from water sources,,, their water and I just don't understand why there is no where to find out what they have done. I do see on another cruise line that the CDC mentions what they have done but nothing on Norwegian.

There was one case last November. 10’s of thousands have sailed since without incident. Those who sailed late last year were not even notified. Not sure why you would Be concerned. 

[uneamie]

So in light of all of this.....WHAT is NCL doing about it in regards to santizing ALL the shower heads and areas where this bacteria hides and grows? I keep thinking I should take a can of lysol and spray the shower head in our cabin....we sail May 7th. Someone mentioned the hot tubs....aren't they clorinated? 

[bortman23]

21 minutes ago, uneamie said:

So in light of all of this.....WHAT is NCL doing about it in regards to santizing ALL the shower heads and areas where this bacteria hides and grows? I keep thinking I should take a can of lysol and spray the shower head in our cabin....we sail May 7th. Someone mentioned the hot tubs....aren't they clorinated? 

 

Legionaries is spread when a person breathes in small droplets of water in the air that contain the bacteria (HVAC, Steam/Showers etc). It is not spread person to person. This is a well known/understood bacteria. I don't think chlorinated water makes much difference, let alone spraying lysol in the shower.

 

There is zero chance NCL doesn't have a plan to deal with something like this. If it's still an ongoing issue, then they should be very clear about what they're doing. If it were some widespread HVAC issue (causing widespread cases), it would be a major issue. Since it isn't, it seems more an isolated incident.

 

 

[ew101]

19 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

 I don't think chlorinated water makes much difference

 

 

According to Legionella - Wikipedia the bacteria is semi common in nature and is killed by chlorinated water.  It says healthy people are not much at risk, and the illness is not known to spread person to person.  This sounds very isolated and rare, given the number of shower heads in the world not to mention the cruise ship fleet.      

[chengkp75]

There are regular methods of controlling and preventing this bacteria on the ships:

 

HVAC systems have sanitizing pads in the condensate drains of the air handlers (where standing water could grow the bacteria and then introduce it into the HVAC air flow)

Shower heads are sanitized (taken off if fixed, or dangled if hand held) in a bucket of sanitizing solution for 10 minutes.

Whirlpools and hot tubs are "super chlorinated" weekly to 100ppm, in addition to the normal chlorination level

 

Yes, chlorinating the water does kill the bacteria, which is why the ship must maintain a residual chlorine level in the water at all times.

 

The problem with shower heads is that there is always a little water inside the head, and over time the chlorine in this water will dissipate, and then you have non-chlorinated water standing with air, and the bacteria can form and grow, and then be sprayed out of the shower head.  Therefore, spraying Lysol on the shower head will do nothing.

 

Now that the ship has had a case of legionella, the remediation measures will include more frequent sanitizing of the shower heads, more frequent super-chlorination of the hot tubs, more frequent changing of the HVAC sanitizing pads, spraying disinfectant into the air handlers of the HVAC system.

 

As for the CDC, not all reports to the CDC are made public.  As far as I know, from my experience, only gastro-intestinal illness outbreak reports (and not all of those) are made public.  Since legionella is a pulmonary disease, I don't believe that the reports of mediation methods are made public.  Further, the CDC, even for it's GI illness outbreak reports, is not always updated in a timely fashion.