Celebrity at a crossroads

[kidz_rn]

On 3/20/2023 at 4:58 PM, Redtravel said:

Guests pay. The more guests, the more profit.  Celebrity is not what it was before the pandemic.  Accept or move on.

Is there no middle ground between accept or move on?

I learned in marketing class that every company needs a mission statement, and then needs to follow it.

Right now, X's mission statement seems to be "Try to be everything to all cruisers of all demographic groups, while simultaneously trying to offend as few as possible, to maximize profits for as long as we can."

[mac_tlc]

4 hours ago, goofysmom99 said:

Well, I did it.  Finally looked at the grass on the other side of Celebrity's fence and booked 14-night Regent Mariner for my 2024 TA out of Barcelona and will be jettisoning the Silhouette TA.  Wanted something other than MDR, but could NOT justify X's pricing for me, even with my zenith benefits.  Silhouette:  S2 $783/night ($850 OBC); A2 $450/night (lousy extra wifi, $50 OBC).  Regent Mariner:  Cat G $478/night ($150 OBC, $1000 OBC as new cruiser).  Regent includes everything, excursions, laundry, 24/7 room service, bigger cabin, etc.  So for $28/night more than A2, my decision sort of became a "which hand has the rock." 🤚👊  I'm really excited to try Regent and wish it weren't so far off; if I didn't have so much already invested in Nov Constellation TA (last of the FCCs), I'd be looking for something else this year, too.

 

Edit:  Regent's deposit is refundable, less $100 admin fee (the $100 admin fee is converted to a FCC).  Not like X's new nonrefundable deposit policy (fortunately, I book onboard so will only be out $100 for cancelling the Silhouette).

 

That single supplement seems like a killer. I was looking at the Nov 2024 Silo TA and for two, in an S1, its $392 pppd. Regent was pricing out higher than that for two. 

 

I have been perusing Oceania lately too, but haven't found any value proposition for the sailings I was looking at and their very port intensive itineraries aren't for us. Pretty sure I would not do the smaller Oceania ships. Viking with no casino and onerous payment terms doesn't draw me in either. 

 

I don't really care whether a cruise line says its "premium" or "luxury" or any other marketing term. If I like the experience and the offerings and the price is acceptable, then we are happy. For the cruises we have booked, Celebrity meets those terms, however, their current suite prices for 2024/25 are outside that boundary, so that's why the search has begun. 

 

mac_tlc

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by mac_tlc

[CruisingWalter]

8 hours ago, JLS07 said:

2) the clear decision to target a kind of crowd that isn't as refined when compared to Celebrity pre-pandemic

 

And exactly who is this target crowd that is unrefined? These folks from Celebrity's current marketing are all folks I would gladly cruise with. I'll probably even buy some of them a drink. 

[C4HCG]

7 hours ago, kidz_rn said:

Is there no middle ground between accept or move on?

I learned in marketing class that every company needs a mission statement, and then needs to follow it.

Right now, X's mission statement seems to be "Try to be everything to all cruisers of all demographic groups, while simultaneously trying to offend as few as possible, to maximize profits for as long as we can."

Isn’t that the same with most corporations and why wouldn’t it be. It certainly rings true where I work - replacing “cruisers” with “customers”. And what do you think is particularly wrong with that as a mission statement? I think it’s perfectly valid.

[catgirl411]

We’ve been on over 25 cruises in the last 30 yrs on a variety of cruises lines (Oceania, Celebrity, Princess, HAL Royal, NCL, Windstar and a Scenic river cruise). Everyone of them has been enjoyable in its own way. Over the 30 years our tastes and budgets have changed. We started with an inside cabin on the old Norway. It was amazing because it was our first ever cruise and we fell in love with cruising.  Now we always get at least a balcony and have sometimes been lucky enough to get a suite (thanks Covid FCCs!).  Yes, there have been some other cruisers that were annoying but more often there have been nice interesting people from all over.  It is pretty easy to avoid those who don’t appeal to you and do your own thing.  Our current preferences and budget have us settling on Oceania, Celebrity and Princess. They fit us right now. I’m 66 and DH is 71. We like good food, good entertainment and interesting itineraries but also love days at sea. Cruising,like any kind of travel is a personal choice.

[JLS07]

9 hours ago, CruisingWalter said:

 

And exactly who is this target crowd that is unrefined? These folks from Celebrity's current marketing are all folks I would gladly cruise with. I'll probably even buy some of them a drink. 

As would I if I meet these people on a ship.  

 

Sadly this is not how the drunk guys who were bragging about getting free cruises because of their gambling looked - at all. I define the target market as the one getting free cruises not really the models they hire for photo shoots.

[CruisingWalter]

22 hours ago, JLS07 said:

As would I if I meet these people on a ship.  

 

Sadly this is not how the drunk guys who were bragging about getting free cruises because of their gambling looked - at all. I define the target market as the one getting free cruises not really the models they hire for photo shoots.

 

All the cruise lines give free and very reduced cruises from the Casino. Princess and Carnival are actually two of biggest casino play cruise lines. That's a wholly different discussion from the 'target market.' "Target Market" is all about the advertising and marketing, which is what I showed in the images.  

 

Casino offers are for clients who have already sailed and who gambled enough money the cruise line thought it was worth bringing them back. They give away a free $500 cabin and in return rake in $2000 or more from casino earnings. It's a 'win' for the cruise line. 

 

I guess if Celebrity is too 'low class' for you now, there's always Oceania, Regent, Seabourn and Viking to move up to. 

[Ex-Airbalancer]

22 hours ago, JLS07 said:

As would I if I meet these people on a ship.  

 

Sadly this is not how the drunk guys who were bragging about getting free cruises because of their gambling looked - at all. I define the target market as the one getting free cruises not really the models they hire for photo shoots.

The picture is a bit miss leading there is no pictures of me , the fat guy , that you don’t want to associate with 🤣

We never done a Caribbean cruise, but I have heard they do have a different Clientele that we are used to seeing on transatlantic and Mediterranean cruises as I never ran into anyone falling over drunk on all our cruises 

 

 

[TeeRick]

23 hours ago, JLS07 said:

As would I if I meet these people on a ship.  

 

Sadly this is not how the drunk guys who were bragging about getting free cruises because of their gambling looked - at all. I define the target market as the one getting free cruises not really the models they hire for photo shoots.

We really do understand your point.  But the important thing that posters here keep responding to you is that it is not the norm on most Celebrity cruises.  But probably on every Celebrity cruise there might be one or two of these types of belligerent cruisers.  Out of several thousand on board.  Most of us just ignore them.  Easy to do.  If you think it is the norm of Celebrity going forward, then maybe find a cruise line with your kind of sail mates.

[mayleeman]

23 hours ago, JLS07 said:

Sadly this is not how the drunk guys who were bragging about getting free cruises because of their gambling looked - at all. I define the target market as the one getting free cruises not really the models they hire for photo shoots

 

I certainly have been sympathetic to many of your concerns, but bad-passenger anecdotes are not evidence of a change in corporate targeting strategy.

 

The most obnoxious people I have met on cruises looked precisely like several of the refined, elegant, well-heeled wine-sippers in those pictures. They were arrogant, imperious, and rude to staff and customers. But I wouldn't have concluded anything about RCL or Celebrity. I would have concluded that some people are just jerks but it is unfair to generalize about others who might look like them. 

 

Didn't you learn that as a kid?

Edited March 29, 2023 by mayleeman

[odyssyus]

On 3/27/2023 at 11:59 PM, CruisingWalter said:

 

And exactly who is this target crowd that is unrefined? These folks from Celebrity's current marketing are all folks I would gladly cruise with. I'll probably even buy some of them a drink. 

Perhaps they mean refined as in old and stodgy?  Only thing I can glean from the reference...

 

[cruisequeen4ever]

I just got back from a spring break Celebrity cruise, and I was pleasantly surprised at the demographics. On our previous Celebrity cruise, there was an overall snooty attitude by many of the passengers that was blissfully absent on this cruise. There were 150 kids onboard, but they were so well entertained by the kids clubs or their families that they really did not impede our vacation at all, with the exception of a group of boys running back-and-forth and shouting over and over during Deal or No Deal one day. I only encountered one drunk person the entire cruise, and his wife set him straight. 4 people were downright rude. Other than all of that, 9 out of 10 passengers were kind, polite, and well behaved. 

[TeeRick]

29 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I just got back from a spring break Celebrity cruise, and I was pleasantly surprised at the demographics. On our previous Celebrity cruise, there was an overall snooty attitude by many of the passengers that was blissfully absent on this cruise. There were 150 kids onboard, but they were so well entertained by the kids clubs or their families that they really did not impede our vacation at all, with the exception of a group of boys running back-and-forth and shouting over and over during Deal or No Deal one day. I only encountered one drunk person the entire cruise, and his wife set him straight. 4 people were downright rude. Other than all of that, 9 out of 10 passengers were kind, polite, and well behaved. 

Maybe you are using this as a figure of speech I hope!  On a 3000 passenger cruise that would leave 300 unruly folk running around!😀

[kidz_rn]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:19 AM, C4HCG said:

Isn’t that the same with most corporations and why wouldn’t it be. It certainly rings true where I work - replacing “cruisers” with “customers”. And what do you think is particularly wrong with that as a mission statement? I think it’s perfectly valid.

This is Celebrity’s “About” statement, which is pretty much synonymous with a Mission Statement:

 

Celebrity is a Relaxed Luxury℠ resort at sea where guests can sail on the world's best places to the world's best places. Visit up to 8 destinations in one sailing, dine in a new restaurant at every meal, rest in luxurious spaces designed to the last detail for comfort, find your well being miles away at sea, all with the world at your service. Our fifteen award-winning ships offer unique experiences in more than 300 destinations on all seven continents 

 

Not sure how this really differentiates them from any other mass market cruise line

[luckyfincruiser]

You are describing our most recent March 2023 sailing on Royal Caribbean (Harmony) - there was even a fist fight!   There is definitely a people problem on cruises (and in the world in general!).  I am hoping this post-covid group of obnoxious travelers is short term.  Having said that we are Diamond Plus on Royal and have opted to do our next cruise on Celebrity for the first time in May.  

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, luckyfincruiser said:

You are describing our most recent March 2023 sailing on Royal Caribbean (Harmony) - there was even a fist fight!   There is definitely a people problem on cruises (and in the world in general!).  I am hoping this post-covid group of obnoxious travelers is short term.  Having said that we are Diamond Plus on Royal and have opted to do our next cruise on Celebrity for the first time in May.  

A few years back on an RCCL cruise we were on, there was an all-out brawl on board.  The next morning at the next port, 8 people were walked off the ship.  And some had families with them.

Edited April 1, 2023 by TeeRick

[Oceangoer2]

On 3/26/2023 at 5:39 PM, Loracpin2 said:

Oceania's Four Specialty Restaurants Toscana, Polo Grill, Jacques & Red Ginger are all FANTASTIC!!! It used to be the same quality on Celebrity before RCI acquired the line in 1997!!

We're researching other lines for comparison to our favourite....X.  Looking through the O site there were photos of their dining rooms.  Ship was the Marina (1250? passengers) so it may be different on the new Vista.  The rooms had a very small capacity, dark with heavy furnishings, so it didn't appeal.  The buffet area looked like other lines and I didn't see any access to dining outside as you can off the OV.  I'm told you make a reservation for specialties and they may go to the higher suites before other classes.  Not many photos of the actual food presentation.  One poster mentioned the specialty restaurants have the best offerings, but the main dining room is no different than other lines in quality or presentation.  If someone has switched from X to Marina I'd love to hear their opinion - positive and negative...re food or experience onboard.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Oceangoer2

[basenji56]

39 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

We're researching other lines for comparison to our favourite....X.  Looking through the O site there were photos of their dining rooms.  The rooms had a very small capacity, dark with heavy furnishings, so it didn't appeal.  

Dining room is very similar to Celebrity M class.  Not small or dark. 

[jonthomas]

We have done over 50 cruises with C, almost at zenith level...

 

Right now on Viking, last 2 days...will never sail it again...we are using up covid credits....

 

While waiting for the V cruise, we sailed 3 O cruises, marina, 2 on Riviera....reg balcony....

Now as long as O does not change, we will not sail any other line....

I have also spread that message these 2 weeks on V and I'm sure many will be sailing with O.

 

I will be giving all my reasons in a couple of hours...

[Oceangoer2]

10 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

Dining room is very similar to Celebrity M class.  Not small or dark. 

I should have said the 'specialty dining rooms' seemed quite small and dark.  Maybe candle lit would make a difference.  The main dining room looked quite like other lines, but with a low ceiling (apparently).

[basenji56]

I didn’t notice a low ceiling but it’s not a huge ship. 1200 passengers 

[Oceangoer2]

9 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

I didn’t notice a low ceiling but it’s not a huge ship. 1200 passengers 

My estimation also.  The S class ships have the double deck dining room, hence the high ceiling....just a little sense of grandeur and space I guess.  I was just reading through the O Riviera thread titled their 'Food'.   Seemed to be many bad reviews.  Perhaps the aftermath of the pandemic has affected all lines.  My friend just finished 30+ days on that ship and didn't find a lot of difference from their many O cruises.  Seems to be  subjective.

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, Oceangoer2 said:

The buffet area looked like other lines and I didn't see any access to dining outside as you can off the OV. 

When we used to cruise with Oceania, our favorite place to eat on any of their O or R Class ships, especially at dinner when very few would ever eat out there, was out on the aft covered outside area up at the Terrace Cafe. 

[catgirl411]

4 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

When we used to cruise with Oceania, our favorite place to eat on any of their O or R Class ships, especially at dinner when very few would ever eat out there, was out on the aft covered outside area up at the Terrace Cafe. 

Pretty much all the food everywhere on Riviera  is great. As a general standard, way better than Princess or Celebrity.

[Oceangoer2]

36 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

When we used to cruise with Oceania, our favorite place to eat on any of their O or R Class ships, especially at dinner when very few would ever eat out there, was out on the aft covered outside area up at the Terrace Cafe. 

My friends agree with you....I didn't see a pic of that, only a windowed area off the buffet...so that wouldn't be the Terrace Cafe?