Has construction on the Pier at Half Moon Cay started yet?

[BermudaBound2014]

Prior to covid, CCL had plans to build a pier on Half moon Cay.  Anyone recently on a stop here noticed if construction has begun? I ask this because in Monday's quarterly release, Josh Weinstein specifically mentioned the pier as a way to generate more revenue.

 

Josh Weinstein on Mondays quarterly conference call:

And with what we’re doing on Half Moon Cay, by adding a pier, that will open up a lot more opportunity for us to bring bigger ships to that island, more guests, a better guest experience and more opportunity to generate not only enhanced ticket pricing because of that, but also onboard spend in the form of spending on board our destinations.

Carnival Corporation & plc (NYSE:CCL) Q1 2023 Earnings Call Transcript - Insider Monkey

 

 

From a 2019 article for those who may not remember: “HAL Properties Limited, the owner of Carnival Corporation [sic], has been approved to expand an existing beach entertainment facility. The company plans to construct a cruise pier on Half Moon Cay as well as landside facilities. The project is expected to cost $80 million.” Major Changes Coming To Carnival's Half Moon Cay (cruiseradio.net)

 

[seagarsmoker]

Not as of last week it hasn't started.

[Oceansaway17]

1 hour ago, seagarsmoker said:

Not as of last week it hasn't started.

Carnival Corp has to gather up the money first  time will tell.

I sorta like the tendering in.

[2LoveBikes]

I was on HMC last week and although there was no visible construction going on, there is some talk among the workers.  The port I understand is on the other side of the island so it is no easy to see,

[OlsSalt]

No better photo op  than looking across the azure blue waters from HMC to the HAL ship floating in the back ground, looking like it is almost suspended in air when the skies, water and sun are just right.

 

Bonus points if the horses are passing through in the water at the same time.

[Honolulu Blue]

11 hours ago, Oceansaway17 said:

Carnival Corp has to gather up the money first  time will tell.

Carnival Corp. HAS cash - $8 billion or so according to their latest quarterly financial report.  The problem, of course, is they also have $35 billion in debt to service.

[YXU AC*SE]

And quite honestly, the revenue captyre / upside from having exclusive control of a port destination so close to POM / PEV makes the discounted payback period of any investment pretty attractive.  Mr. Weinstein, from the same analysts' call transcript:  

 

"We’re talking about being able to put another incredibly attractive destination in a very short distance from South Florida, the East Coast of the United States, which helps us tremendously on the cost side, on the carbon footprint side."  

 

Scott. 

[BermudaBound2014]

7 hours ago, YXU AC*SE said:

And quite honestly, the revenue captyre / upside from having exclusive control of a port destination so close to POM / PEV makes the discounted payback period of any investment pretty attractive.  Mr. Weinstein, from the same analysts' call transcript:  

 

"We’re talking about being able to put another incredibly attractive destination in a very short distance from South Florida, the East Coast of the United States, which helps us tremendously on the cost side, on the carbon footprint side."  

 

Scott. 

 

In the quote above, Weinstein was not referring to Half Moon Cay (although the tenets certainly apply). He was referring to Grand Port which is another project that CCL has undertaken. The questions posed didn't ask Mr. Weinstein when the projects would be complete, but rather how they can impact yield. Obviously cruise lines want to control the ports as much as possible. 

 

Grand Port is just outside of Freeport, and will be "the largest purpose-built cruise port ever built in The Bahamas and one of the largest in the world." CCL is saying this project will be finished in late 2024. There are photos of ground breaking but google Earth does not confirm major construction. Some of you may find this article interesting:

Details of Carnival cruise port project revealed in EIA/EMP document - The Nassau Guardian

 

Grand Port looks to me to be a response directly to RCL's CocoCay. A big ol' family amusement park which is actually becoming quite popular (Costa May, Tanio Bay, Labadee, CocoCay, Ocean Cay, etc..)  It does make sense for cruise lines to be able to capture all the dollars of a port stop.

 

 

 

I can't find any plans for Little San Salvador (Half Moon Cay) other than adding a pier for the purpose of accommodating larger ships and more people on the island in a single day. I'm seeing 80 Million thrown around as the cost. Weinstein definitely said "what we are doing on HMC" as if it is underway, but who knows. These guys are masters at word play.

 

IMO a pier on HMC is sad, but inevitable. I first stopped in Half Moon Cay in the 90's. We all piled into a tender that ran aground on the beach and lowered a ramp into the water. It was impossible to not get wet :). Ironically I was sailing on the NCL Norway at that time so HAL was sharing the island back then. I foresee typical florida 7 day itinerarys stopping in Grand Turk, Grand Port, and Half Moon Cay. All operated by CCL. 

 

[YXU AC*SE]

I looked for the HMC Environmental Impact Assessment as well, and couldn't find it -- lots of references, but no actual source doucment.  To your original point I read his remarks as applying to both ...     HAL pax are a bit of a different beast, in the sense that a lot of us cruise for the itineraries ... versus 'I don't care where we go as long as it's sunny and warm I just want to get off the boat somewhere.'  For the latter, I complete agree w/ your 7-day proposed itin -- with the shoreside captured revs allowing for even lower per diems to entice pax.   Scott.   

[BermudaBound2014]

16 minutes ago, YXU AC*SE said:

I looked for the HMC Environmental Impact Assessment as well, and couldn't find it -- lots of references, but no actual source doucment.  To your original point I read his remarks as applying to both ...     HAL pax are a bit of a different beast, in the sense that a lot of us cruise for the itineraries ... versus 'I don't care where we go as long as it's sunny and warm I just want to get off the boat somewhere.'  For the latter, I complete agree w/ your 7-day proposed itin -- with the shoreside captured revs allowing for even lower per diems to entice pax.   Scott.   

I read it different since the immediate preceding sentence was specific to Grand Port but I absolutely agree ideas apply to both. 
 

I also agree that HALs niche is longer more interesting itineraries. They are struggling to fill their 7 night runs (as evidenced by the last minute cruise discounts).But, if the 7 day runs continue, we are of the same mindset. CCL (thus HAL) will very likely capture revenue wherever possible and that means more ships stopping at HMC. 
 

 

[Oceansaway17]

16 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Carnival Corp. HAS cash - $8 billion or so according to their latest quarterly financial report.  The problem, of course, is they also have $35 billion in debt to service.

Well then after debts they will have less

🤤

[MauiWowie57]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:12 PM, 2LoveBikes said:

I was on HMC last week and although there was no visible construction going on, there is some talk among the workers.  The port I understand is on the other side of the island so it is no easy to see,

That would be nice of them. 

[MauiWowie57]

12 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

They are struggling to fill their 7 night runs (as evidenced by the last minute cruise discounts).But, if the 7 day runs continue, we are of the same mindset. CCL (thus HAL) will very likely capture revenue wherever possible and that means more ships stopping at HMC. 

 

I didn't realize they were having that bad of a challenge filling the 7 night Carribean trips. Carnival (the cruise line) has finally stopped the insane discounting (I took a 5 day out of Jacksonville, solo;  cabin was $500 and I got $500 OBC!) but I'm still getting offers from HAL for 'free inside rooms," but only on Alaska cruises (there may be some on Caribbean but I wasn't paying attention that closely).

 

HMC is pretty pristine at present. If they built a pier, wonder if that implies (I'd think it does) that they could have multiple ships docked simultaneously. I was just in Grand Turk last week (CCL Mardi Gras) and we had both the Nieu Amsterdam and Mardis Gras there at the pier; "crowded" would have been an understatement. 
 

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

I think, for a number of reasons,  it's a stretch to compare GT and HMC.

 

However,  2 ships visiting each location is not new.

[Haljo1935]

Last year, not sure which itinerary/ship, when we were at HMC, we were told HAL had sold part of the island to Disney. I haven't been able to find anything about that transaction or Disney plans, but HMC is definitely topping HAL/CCL financial plans.

[CruiserBruce]

16 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said:

Last year, not sure which itinerary/ship, when we were at HMC, we were told HAL had sold part of the island to Disney. I haven't been able to find anything about that transaction or Disney plans, but HMC is definitely topping HAL/CCL financial plans.

That would be very surprising. The island isn't that big. I think part of it is some sort wildlife preserve. 

[BermudaBound2014]

6 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Last year, not sure which itinerary/ship, when we were at HMC, we were told HAL had sold part of the island to Disney. 

 

I just did a little digging and I'm pretty sure we can put this in the rumor category. Disney has Castaway Cay and is building a new island destination called Lighthouse Point to add another private destination stop in the Bahamas. It is only 13 miles away from Half Moon Cay (little San Salvadore) geographically., so maybe that added to the rumors?  

 

Here's some more info about Lighthouse point if interested: Disney is Still Moving Forward with Second Private Destination in the Bahamas (cruisehive.com)

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

7 hours ago, MauiWowie57 said:

HMC is pretty pristine at present. If they built a pier, wonder if that implies (I'd think it does) that they could have multiple ships docked simultaneously. I was just in Grand Turk last week (CCL Mardi Gras) and we had both the Nieu Amsterdam and Mardis Gras there at the pier; "crowded" would have been an understatement. 

 

Weinstein stated that the objective of the pier is to bring in 'bigger ships' and more people. I bet my money that any pier constructed will hold at least two Excell class ships.

 

Fun name BTW 🙂 

[POA1]

13 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

On 3/30/2023 at 5:23 AM, Honolulu Blue said:

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by POA1
Sorry for this. The site blank-quoted the two posters I was referencing.

[Shalandara]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Weinstein stated that the objective of the pier is to bring in 'bigger ships' and more people. I bet my money that any pier constructed will hold at least two Excell class ships.

 

Fun name BTW 🙂 

I would think that not having to spend fuel on using tenders would also be a factor.  For the economics (less $$ spent on fuel), for reaching net zero on target goals (because of not uisng fuel), and the logistics of getting people on and off ship easily.  And on the $$ side, people who might have problems with tenders don't get off at HMC -- but if they can get them to a dock/level surface easily would be a person on the island who could then spend $$ at certain venues.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Shalandara

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, Shalandara said:

I would think that not having to spend fuel on using tenders would also be a factor.  For the economics (less $$ spent on fuel), for reaching net zero on target goals (because of not uisng fuel), and the logistics of getting people on and off ship easily.  And on the $$ side, people who might have problems with tenders don't get off at HMC -- but if they can get them to a dock/level surface easily would be a person on the island who could then spend $$ at certain venues.

Yep, Weinstein said as much in the quarterly release- “,….which helps us tremendously on the cost side, on the carbon footprint side."  

 

[Haljo1935]

18 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I just did a little digging and I'm pretty sure we can put this in the rumor category.

Certainly an abundance of rumors - interestingly, this was said by the tram driver on HMC, so given the source we thought there might be some truth to it. But no telling where they got their info. Or plans could have changed. We were disappointed to think the island could be swarming w/Disney passengers and feel better thinking it likely won't be.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Haljo1935
Typo

[3rdGenCunarder]

On 3/30/2023 at 3:00 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

IMO a pier on HMC is sad, but inevitable. I first stopped in Half Moon Cay in the 90's. We all piled into a tender that ran aground on the beach and lowered a ramp into the water. It was impossible to not get wet :). Ironically I was sailing on the NCL Norway at that time so HAL was sharing the island back then. I foresee typical florida 7 day itinerarys stopping in Grand Turk, Grand Port, and Half Moon Cay. All operated by CCL. 

 

Are you sure it was HMC? I remember those tenders "Little Norway 1" and "Little Norway 2" but we went to NCL's island, Great Stirrup Cay. 

 

Several comments about cruise lines "owning" islands. I thought they were all long-term leases.

 

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Are you sure it was HMC? I remember those tenders "Little Norway 1" and "Little Norway 2" but we went to NCL's island, Great Stirrup Cay. 

 

Several comments about cruise lines "owning" islands. I thought they were all long-term leases.

 

 

OMGOSH... great memory!! You are absolutely right. When you mentioned "little Norway" it jogged my memory. When they dropped the front metal plate into the water it was game on "stormin' the beach". It was a bit sketchy at best. Cruise lines could Never do that now.

 

Off topic but i found an old artist rendering (since I'm the OP I don't mind lol). The Norway was such a beautiful Ocean Liner.

 

Thanks for the trip down memory lane 🙂

Edited April 1, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[AFNavigator]

17 hours ago, Shalandara said:

I would think that not having to spend fuel on using tenders would also be a factor.  For the economics (less $$ spent on fuel), for reaching net zero on target goals (because of not uisng fuel), and the logistics of getting people on and off ship easily.  And on the $$ side, people who might have problems with tenders don't get off at HMC -- but if they can get them to a dock/level surface easily would be a person on the island who could then spend $$ at certain venues.

The fuel cost to keep the ship dynamically positioned probably exceeds the cost of running the tenders.  Beyond the cost of operating the tenders and the ship positioning, there's also the behind the scenes cost of having to tender in all service items such as fuel, water (unless they have a desalination plant there, construction materials, etc., and transferring all the food/drinks to/from the ship per visit.

 

The other big advantage of a pier is the passenger experience.  Beyond the difficulties of tendering for some passengers, there are quite a few occurrences each year of ships not being able to stop at HMC due to sea conditions.  A pier likely would significantly increase the ability to use HMC in sea conditions that currently cause a lot of those cancelled stops.  A pier would also enable much faster passenger disembarkation giving passengers more time on the island per visit--maybe 2 hours more for the same HMC ship visit window.  That's good for the passengers and also for the cruise line because they could sell more excursions, drinks, etc.