P&O Arvia K307 - Not the experience we were expecting

[molecrochip]

8 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Covers might be the same but presently it seems the majority still want to eat in MDR and there lies the problem. 2 MDRs and too many people trying to get in, not everyone wants to eat in Olive Grove or Mizuhana. Therefore the only option it leaves is  buffet and a lot of unhappy cruiser's. I have done over 50 cruises including over 30 with P&O since 1997 and can honestly say I have never eaten in the evening in the buffet restaurant. I think P&O are making a big mistake if they carry on with this policy.

 

The research was done about what people wanted in a ship. That would have been based on a target audience. This first season Arvia is getting a different demographic of passenger. It will settle down as it has on Iona.

 

Appreciate that doesn’t help in the short term but Iona’s performance gives me belief.

[molecrochip]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Mizuhana and Green & Co are also very specialized and maybe don't appeal to quite a lot of the passengers, plant based and sushi might be nice once a week as a treat but i suspect probably not to many people's tastes every night.   

Again passenger demographics in play here. Plant based is amazingly popular in the 15-35 age group. But at the moment they are getting less of that group and more of 55+ than they expect on Arvia longer term.

[majortom10]

4 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

The research was done about what people wanted in a ship. That would have been based on a target audience. This first season Arvia is getting a different demographic of passenger. It will settle down as it has on Iona.

 

Appreciate that doesn’t help in the short term but Iona’s performance gives me belief.

It doesn't give me belief we have cruises booked on Arvia in September this year and April next year. If we encounter the current problems on Arvia in September we will be cancelling our cruise on Arvia next year.

[Eglesbrech]

16 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

There is of course the cynical in me saying that P&O are perfectly happy with the situation on Arvia and people might reluctantly book speciality restaurants at a cost to get a meal guaranteed in the evening. Therefore it increases revenue and P&O making more profit.

 

That’s what we ended up doing on Iona to get a time and of course some edible food.

[terrierjohn]

3 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

The research was done about what people wanted in a ship. That would have been based on a target audience. This first season Arvia is getting a different demographic of passenger. It will settle down as it has on Iona.

 

Appreciate that doesn’t help in the short term but Iona’s performance gives me belief.

On both our Iona cruises I suspect the target demographic was missed by about 25 years. I guess the target passenger profile was 40-45, but on both our Canary cruises it was pushing 65, with very many older than our 79 yrs. But after the first night in which the MDR was too busy, it settled down and the queues were small or non existent. So it must be staff experience rather than more closely hitting the target demographic.

[majortom10]

2 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Again passenger demographics in play here. Plant based is amazingly popular in the 15-35 age group. But at the moment they are getting less of that group and more of 55+ than they expect on Arvia longer term.

We have just returned from Iona and can honestly say that the demographic in ages was no different than any other P&O cruise we have done and many in the 55+ age. Also think that your thoughts of restaurants being popular with 15-35 age group is misguided because for majority of the year when children are at school and will not attract that sort of age group and P&O will be relying on elder clientele on the other months to fill the ship.

[TigerB]

48 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Again passenger demographics in play here. Plant based is amazingly popular in the 15-35 age group. But at the moment they are getting less of that group and more of 55+ than they expect on Arvia longer term.

 

I'm 55yrs and a pescatarian, our lass is 59yrs and a carnivore; we both absolutely loved Green and Co., it is a great concept and the food and service was second to none. The unfortunate thing was that it was quiet for almost the entire cruise, the maiden Transatlantic. With what you write about the age demographic being higher than anticipated, that could explain it. We both thought it was a shame and feared that they would bin it after just one season. I really hope they don't.

[Megabear2]

Another factor could be a mismatch of the ship itinerary for the younger age group.  There are very few Mediterranean/warm weather 2 week cruises out of Southampton apart from Arvia, a couple on Britannia and Ventura alongside the Discovery cruises on the older two ships.  Younger people won't want to do identical repeats of what they did previously whereas older people will happily revisit places just for the warmth.  Eventually the new passengers will have sailed to Norway on Iona and the limited Med itineraries on Arvia and move on to other adventures while they're young.

 

47 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

The research was done about what people wanted in a ship. That would have been based on a target audience.

How big was the sampling for the target audience for the restaurant offerings that they brought to fruition? Were they totally new to cruising or had some of them experienced the big American lines offerings?

 

Plant based is indeed popular but I can't recall any other "mainstream" cruise line, airline or hotel that has decided to drastically reduce its offering to the bulk of the UK population.  Currently it is an extremely small percentage of the population standing at 7.2% following an entirely meat free diet while 86% regularly include meat in their diet with the remainder being pescatarian etc.

 

I'm sure someone clever with figures will be able to tell me how many of Arvia/Iona's passengers will therefore be exclusively plant based. By 2030 the research shows 30% of the UK population will be eating a plant based diet, is this the long end date for P&O planning?

[Vampiress88]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Mizuhana and Green & Co are also very specialized and maybe don't appeal to quite a lot of the passengers, plant based and sushi might be nice once a week as a treat but i suspect probably not to many people's tastes every night.   

I won’t be going to either even though it’s aimed at my age range

[Harry Peterson]

Sometimes, one has to accept that one's demographic no longer fits........Club 18-30 kicked me out when I got my bus pass! 🙂

[sandancer]

The demographic on the return Transatlantic cruise on Arvia was really varied. Everything from babies, toddlers, older children, right through to the very mature cruiser. We booked speciality restaurants and some entertainment before we left home and would recommend doing that. We only ate in the MDR 3 times, joining the virtual queue every night we had not already reserved for either Epicurean or Sindhu. We are fortunate that we are able to cruise outside of school holidays and are very happy with cruises with many sea days. I sympathise with the folk on her now and only hope that things will improve. We loved Arvia and have booked 2 more cruises but I’m so glad that we are not onboard right now. 

[davecttr]

Can I clear up some confusion here. Iona has 2 small MDR's on deck 6, Aqua and Opal. On Arvia these have become the 6th Street Diner and the Olive Grove. The deck 8 Olive Grove on Iona is Green & Co etc on Arvia. The deck 8 Olive Grove has  a small capacity.

 

On Iona Celebration nights The Beach House becomes the Chefs Table and even expands into the buffet proper. I presume this is the case on Arvia.

 

On one Celebration night I have booked the 6th Street Diner, about as far away from formal as you can get. I wonder if anyone will turn up in formal wear. 

 

I found the buffet quiet on Celebration night if you were prepared to walk more than 10 yards from the servery. In fact just two of us had an entire section to ourselves.

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 hours ago, Fionboard said:

So glad I only cruise on the smaller ships! 

Interesting point

 

The issues here appear to be due to this being a capacity cruise at school holiday time

 

Do any of the P and O smaller ships allow children on?

 

If so how do they cope at school holiday time?

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 hours ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Thank you for the heads up on the current dining and entertainment booking issues.  We're on the following cruise.

 

Currently, there's one theatre show we can't book, just can't progress through the booking process, so we'll be on the case for that once on board.  We've managed to pre-book some of our dining, looks like we'll be joining virtual queues earlier rather than later.

Are you also travelling in school holiday time. If not I don't think you need to worry about lengthy virtual queues?

[davecttr]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Interesting point

 

The issues here appear to be due to this being a capacity cruise at school holiday time

 

Do any of the P and O smaller ships allow children on?

 

If so how do they cope at school holiday time?

Aurora and Arcadia are adults only

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Whilst I don’t have a problem with the big ships, I’ve read enough consistent reviews of Arvia now to know that she is best avoided during peak periods, especially if you want to dine in an MDR. The removal of the two additional smaller MDRs that Iona has in favour of extra speciality restaurants has caused a major capacity problem on Arvia, which is further compounded by the reservation system which is leaving tables empty for periods of time. I know that many like the ‘app’ system, but I can’t help but feel that we didn’t get all these reports when Freedom Dining operated as it should (ie first come, first served). Yes, you had to take a pager at peak times, but people weren't giving up and using the buffet in desperation. I am also at a complete loss as to why P&O are persisting with a booking system for the theatre. Once again, trying to solve a problem that never existed!

Problems with theatre for 8.30pm shows definitely existed before for us

 

We had to get to the theatre 30 minutes before the show started to make sure we got seats

 

That's just like having to queue for 30 minutes except you are sat down?

 

To us it would be a real negative and backward step if we had to go back to that rather than being able to e-book guaranteed entry to a theatre like we can in the real world

 

Way more civilised the way it is now 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 hours ago, molecrochip said:

The research was done about what people wanted in a ship. That would have been based on a target audience. This first season Arvia is getting a different demographic of passenger. It will settle down as it has on Iona.

 

Appreciate that doesn’t help in the short term but Iona’s performance gives me belief.

We are mid 50s demographic and have cruised 7 or 8 times before

 

We chose either speciality or buffet every night. Never dined in MDR

 

We've always dined in MDR on every cruise before more than once

 

To us it's not as fun as speciality and too much time to spend for same food and more choice we can get in the buffet

 

I honestly can't see MDR appealing to younger demographics as its boring and/or time consuming compared to all the other options on the big ships

 

I suspect the big ships have got it right

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 hours ago, majortom10 said:

It doesn't give me belief we have cruises booked on Arvia in September this year and April next year. If we encounter the current problems on Arvia in September we will be cancelling our cruise on Arvia next year.

You won't unless you've booked a school holiday week

 

Simple as that

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

On both our Iona cruises I suspect the target demographic was missed by about 25 years. I guess the target passenger profile was 40-45, but on both our Canary cruises it was pushing 65, with very many older than our 79 yrs. But after the first night in which the MDR was too busy, it settled down and the queues were small or non existent. So it must be staff experience rather than more closely hitting the target demographic.

On Arvia Caribbean I would say average age was 45 to 55. Was a much younger cruise than we expected

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, Vampiress88 said:

I won’t be going to either even though it’s aimed at my age range

Mizhuana on Arvia was a very small part of Green and Co

[Interestedcruisefan]

15 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Aurora and Arcadia are adults only

So isnt it more that school holidays cause problems on ships rather than larger ships cause problems?

 

Outside of school holidays Arvia or Iona arent remotely experiencing the problems at all that the OP faced on this school holiday cruise?

Edited April 7, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Son of Anarchy]

48 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Are you also travelling in school holiday time. If not I don't think you need to worry about lengthy virtual queues?

School holidays should be over, so hopefully any such issues won't be such as they appear to be on the current cruise. 🤞

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So isnt it more that school holidays cause problems on ships rather than larger ships cause problems?

 

Outside of school holidays Arvia or Iona arent remotely experiencing the problems at all that the OP faced on this school holiday cruise?

I must be missing something here. Surely the two ships were designed for the younger families and as such should be able to cope with school holidays with ease?  If they can't cope with the full load including the children then something is going wrong big time and P&O will surely need to see what exactly is causing the issues and make adjustments accordingly.  

 

I'm looking forward to trying Arvia and have worked on the assumption it will be an entirely different experience more akin to my sailings on the biggest RC ships.  I'm happy to go with the flow and book speciality restaurants before departure but the fact remains that I will not choose the buffet on any P&O ship for my main evening meal as more often than not  it is in my experience very limited and repetitive.  I've never had to factor that in on any other line I've sailed with, my only other issue with buffets has been on Princess ships where I've found the hot section buffet food to often be cold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CarlaMarie]

10 hours ago, molecrochip said:

P&O now release the seats not occupied at between 5 and 10 minutes to go rather than at the start of the show. It’s an improvement.

 

I’d personally scrap the booking functions on the app!

 

Arvia will also be suffering from the first year syndrome where (statistically) older, longer standing cruisers must go and experience a new ship in its first year, even though they’ve already decided that they will hate it, it’s not for them etc.

 

This is not Arvia’s target audience but they are of course welcome on board. Iona proved that once this first year was out the way and those who sail tend to fit the predicted nature of dining more accurately - i.e. they are not looking for formal dining every night.

 

This is something I do not understand with P&O. Iona and Arvia's target audience is those who are not looking for formal dining every night, but they will not attract purely that audience all year round especially out of school holiday time or even when there are festivals/celebrations such as Christmas and Easter. So has there been a massive oversight somewhere especially on Arvia in regards to MDR demand, and hence she just cannot cope?

 

It surely also has to be factored in that a majority of those onboard will be returning cruisers, who tend not to use as many select dining venues as they had done previously - again putting more pressure on the MDR. 

 

 

[Megabear2]

3 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

On Arvia Caribbean I would say average age was 45 to 55. Was a much younger cruise than we expected

ICF you were on a Caribbean fly cruise and these historically will differ from an ex Southampton departure.  Lots of older passengers can't or choose not to fly so the demographic will always be different on these types of cruise and young people particularly in the last 5 or 6 years have increased enormously on these cruises.  There's also been the slashing of prices to ridiculously low levels in the past couple of winter seasons and this coupled with the reluctance of some older people to risk being stranded with covid has also added to their number.

 

I'm someone who does year after year on P&O fly cruises to Barbados, often at Christmas/New Year and the attraction is more or less endless warmth and sun when it's cold at home,  every day an island to visit and only a handful of sea days, probably 4 or 5 maximum.  If you pick this type of cruise you're much less likely to be bothered about formality in dining rooms than those choosing to sail with more seadays and fewer ports. My experience over the past 12 years on P&O Caribbean fly cruises is that the age of passengers has always been generally lower than on any other cruises I take with the line. 

 

Ex Southampton is traditionally chosen by many for itinerary rather than the onboard ship activities, again the older demographic choose the longer more varied cruises on Arcadia and Aurora for exactly that reason - you only have to read of the disappointment at port changes such as the October dropping of Rhodes from Aurora's itinerary to get a feel for this.

 

Mediterranean/Atlantic isles 14 day cruises on Arvia/Iona appear to be offering only 5 or 6 ports of call on most sailings which is leaving a lot of sea days to be filled.  As others have said to fill the two ships in term time the older and often non working passenger is going to be needed which appears to be reflected in Terrierjohn and Majortom's observations.

 

You clearly loved Arvia, your blog and enthusiasm helped me decide to give her a go.  However in my experience there's a hell of a lot of difference between a 7.30am start for a full 8 hour slog around Florence or the Cinque Terre with coach journeys of a couple of hours each way in the heat of summer than there is an 8.30am start for 8 hours on a catamaran sailing for a lobster lunch on a Caribbean beach.  Arriving back after the former you're going to be very much less inclined to want a bunfight or an argument with an app to get a seat for your dinner. 

 

You mentioned lots of lovely beach based trips and excursions on your latest cruise and I've no idea what a Mediterranean trip would involve for you or whether you choose mainly relaxed activities there as well, but not many will take the beach option on European cruises choosing cultural destinations and sightseeing instead.  Places like Florence, Seville and Rome are the bucket shop destinations and they are a long way from the ports.  Tired but happy passengers mostly want to come back and relax with a drink and eat a good meal with someone serving them before being entertained without the hassle of have I got or lost my seat.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Megabear2