Specific Tip Question

[ldubs]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

Those who practice if acknowledge that it generally results in better service - and what is  an advance payment you make, in order to receive something you want in return, if it is not a bribe?

 

Yup, pretty much though the word "bribe" is usually thought of as something criminal or dishonest involved.   Either way, I think we are saying the same thing.  

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

This is also largely the case in the Navy.  Sure, you have watches to stand (in and around regular day’s work), but the fact that you are rarely more than 150 feet from your bunk, have no commute, have no groceries to buy, etc. means that many of the little chores that gobble up a civilian’s time do not exist.

 

So true. On Island Princess, as 3/0, I had one of the fwd cabins next to the Bridge. My commute was about 2-steps. Tough commute.🤣

[navybankerteacher]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Yup, pretty much though the word "bribe" is usually thought of as something criminal or dishonest involved.   Either way, I think we are saying the same thing.  

“criminal or dishonest”? — not always. I know I used to promise my children a treat - perhaps an ice cream cone or a choice of candy bar if they would do something. Clearly a bribe, but hardly criminal or dishonest in that context.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

“criminal or dishonest”? — not always. I know I used to promise my children a treat - perhaps an ice cream cone or a choice of candy bar if they would do something. Clearly a bribe, but hardly criminal or dishonest in that context.

 

Sorry didn't want to say all bribes are dishonest.  Just that the word is usually thought of that way.  Actually, I'm not sure you gave a bribe to the kiddo's.  You offered incentive pay! 

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Sorry didn't want to say all bribes are dishonest.  Just that the word is usually thought of that way.  Actually, I'm not sure you gave a bribe to the kiddo's.  You offered incentive pay! 

No - there is nothing inherently dishonest about a bribe.  But “incentive pay” given before the service is performed is best called a bribe, while if given after the service it should be called a gratuity.

[ldubs]

16 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

No - there is nothing inherently dishonest about a bribe.  But “incentive pay” given before the service is performed is best called a bribe, while if given after the service it should be called a gratuity.

 

Aw, I didn't understand your example of the reward to the children.  We provided allowances to our kids for doing their chores when they were young.  Never thought of it as a gratuity.   

 

I agree (again).  A bribe is not essentially dishonest.  I am just saying (again) that the word is often viewed (and defined) with a negative connotation because it often involves an unfair advantage, or unethical action.   

[Elaine5715]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:44 PM, ldubs said:

 

I think the word "bribe" has a negative (criminal) connotation that dndedoes not apply in this case.  But really, by expressing appreciation for something that hasn't happened yet we are sending a pretty clear message.  While not a practice I feel a need to follow, it is no skin off my nose if someone wants to grease the palms as the expression goes.  😀  

It is intended to have a negative connotation to discourage others from "getting ahead".  While I am handing the cabin attendant cash on meeting, I am asking for specific extra items that will be delivered in my absence.  I have no intention of sitting and waiting for my ice, extra pillow and bathrobe  to be delivered.  Having working in the service industry for years, we understand what is expected.  My partner was a long time bartender at a private club for years, pre-cell phones.  Some members would order a drink, drop a $20 over the cost of the drink and said "I'm not here".  When the wife called, "he's not here".   

[Gwendy]

11 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

“criminal or dishonest”? — not always. I know I used to promise my children a treat - perhaps an ice cream cone or a choice of candy bar if they would do something. Clearly a bribe, but hardly criminal or dishonest in that context.

But they had to perform the task first, parenting 101.  They didn’t get the ice cream BEFORE they completed the task.

[Elaine5715]

11 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

“criminal or dishonest”? — not always. I know I used to promise my children a treat - perhaps an ice cream cone or a choice of candy bar if they would do something. Clearly a bribe, but hardly criminal or dishonest in that context.

The opposite of that was my mom who promised punishment for failure to perform requested tasks or chores.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

The opposite of that was my mom who promised punishment for failure to perform requested tasks or chores.

Failure to perform reasonably assigned chores might call for some sort of disciplinary action - perhaps limiting TV time or withholding allowance if there was an understanding that a quid pro quo existed.  I hope the threatened punishment did not involve water torture, flogging, or. withholding food.

 

in my household there was a quid quo pro arrangement - they did their acknowledged chores and I gave them their allowance.  The bribes (extra treats) I offered represented inducements for “above and beyond” performance.  (My four are now grown - and are now applying much the same approach in interacting with my ten grandchildren)

[Elaine5715]

48 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Failure to perform reasonably assigned chores might call for some sort of disciplinary action - perhaps limiting TV time or withholding allowance if there was an understanding that a quid pro quo existed.  I hope the threatened punishment did not involve water torture, flogging, or. withholding food.

 

in my household there was a quid quo pro arrangement - they did their acknowledged chores and I gave them their allowance.  The bribes (extra treats) I offered represented inducements for “above and beyond” performance.  (My four are now grown - and are now applying much the same approach in interacting with my ten grandchildren)

Worse, usually involved weeding flower beds

[horseymike]

We always tip extra , the amount varies on the level of service which in most cases has been outstanding. 
I am curious if the crew ( cabin steward, waiters, Maitre D s ) are aware if you have already paid the required gratuities in advance ?

Thanks

[Elaine5715]

6 hours ago, horseymike said:

We always tip extra , the amount varies on the level of service which in most cases has been outstanding. 
I am curious if the crew ( cabin steward, waiters, Maitre D s ) are aware if you have already paid the required gratuities in advance ?

Thanks

Yes

[sanger727]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:50 AM, navybankerteacher said:

“criminal or dishonest”? — not always. I know I used to promise my children a treat - perhaps an ice cream cone or a choice of candy bar if they would do something. Clearly a bribe, but hardly criminal or dishonest in that context.

 

There's a difference between payment and a bribe. My job tells me that if I show up for work for the next two weeks they will give me money. Not a bribe. Our entire economy is based on agreed for payment for services offered.

 

The bribe is when there is already agreed for payment for services offered (daily grauitity) and then additional money is offered upfront with a wink wink and request for special treatment. I don't think in the case of the cabin stewart that this is a bribe. Now, if you offer a bartender a tip upfront and request to get something without paying for it; that would be a bribe. 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by sanger727

[aborgman]

On 6/9/2023 at 4:09 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Those who practice if acknowledge that it generally results in better service - and what is  an advance payment you make, in order to receive something you want in return, if it is not a bribe?

 

I'd say it's just an inducement, whereas a bribe is an illegal or dishonest inducement.

 

inducement: a thing that persuades or influences someone to do something.

bribe: persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.

 

The etymology of the word "bribe" supports that also -  "The original sense was ‘rob, extort’, hence (as a noun) ‘theft, stolen goods’, also ‘money extorted or demanded for favors’

Edited June 15, 2023 by aborgman

[Brian V]

12 hours ago, sanger727 said:

There's a difference between payment and a bribe. My job tells me that if I show up for work for the next two weeks they will give me money. Not a bribe.

 

They are not paying you in advance...if you don't show up, you don't get paid, right?

 

Slipping a bartender a $20 on day one with the expectation that you will get served before your fellow passengers...100% a bribe in my opinion.

Slipping your room steward a $20 because you asked for extra pillows and a coffee maker and a robe? Different kettle of fish...

 

[ceeceeDee]

Hoo boy. I had no idea I would open such a can of worms (and accusations of bribery and corruption) when I posted that I give the cabin stewards a couple of dollars tip on the first day!😯😁

To be honest, I was going to just crawl back into my hole and not respond further, but I think I really need to clarify.

I am NOT paying for services yet to be rendered. Service has already been performed in the shape of room preparation and willingness to rectify problems or provide extra items. I make a point of telling the stewards at the time that the tip is a thank you for presenting the room to perfection.  (Obviously if the room wasn't up to scratch, I wouldn't tip and they'd get a complaint instead). And let me reiterate, I am only talking a couple of bucks here not a tip of epic proportions.🙂

As I said originally, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. I just happen to think that a small token of appreciation is a nice thing to do. Again, my decision and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with or follow my practice.

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, ceeceeDee said:

Hoo boy. I had no idea I would open such a can of worms (and accusations of bribery and corruption) when I posted that I give the cabin stewards a couple of dollars tip on the first day!😯😁

To be honest, I was going to just crawl back into my hole and not respond further, but I think I really need to clarify.

I am NOT paying for services yet to be rendered. Service has already been performed in the shape of room preparation and willingness to rectify problems or provide extra items. I make a point of telling the stewards at the time that the tip is a thank you for presenting the room to perfection.  (Obviously if the room wasn't up to scratch, I wouldn't tip and they'd get a complaint instead). And let me reiterate, I am only talking a couple of bucks here not a tip of epic proportions.🙂

As I said originally, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. I just happen to think that a small token of appreciation is a nice thing to do. Again, my decision and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with or follow my practice.

 

No one is accusing you of corruption.   And sorry, but from the wording in your initial comment it sure sounded like you expect to be "looked after really well".   Like it or not, an up-front payment in order to receive more attention is commonly called a bribe.  Some don't like it because you might get something they won't.  Some (like me) are not going to get too worked up about it.  

  

[sanger727]

12 hours ago, Brian V said:

 

They are not paying you in advance...if you don't show up, you don't get paid, right?

 

Slipping a bartender a $20 on day one with the expectation that you will get served before your fellow passengers...100% a bribe in my opinion.

Slipping your room steward a $20 because you asked for extra pillows and a coffee maker and a robe? Different kettle of fish...

 

 

Yes, that is exactly what I said.

[Heidi13]

10 hours ago, ceeceeDee said:

Hoo boy. I had no idea I would open such a can of worms (and accusations of bribery and corruption) when I posted that I give the cabin stewards a couple of dollars tip on the first day!😯😁

To be honest, I was going to just crawl back into my hole and not respond further, but I think I really need to clarify.

I am NOT paying for services yet to be rendered. Service has already been performed in the shape of room preparation and willingness to rectify problems or provide extra items. I make a point of telling the stewards at the time that the tip is a thank you for presenting the room to perfection.  (Obviously if the room wasn't up to scratch, I wouldn't tip and they'd get a complaint instead). And let me reiterate, I am only talking a couple of bucks here not a tip of epic proportions.🙂

As I said originally, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. I just happen to think that a small token of appreciation is a nice thing to do. Again, my decision and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with or follow my practice.

 

To consider the big picture.

 

Yes, TAR is lots of work for the entire crew, not just the cabin stewards/stewardesses, but your couple of dollars upon boarding for preparing the cabin is chicken feed to them. If they didn't perform to that level they would be out of a job, which pays extremely well in their home country.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 6/15/2023 at 9:14 PM, ceeceeDee said:

Hoo boy. I had no idea I would open such a can of worms (and accusations of bribery and corruption) when I posted that I give the cabin stewards a couple of dollars tip on the first day!😯😁

 

 

This is Cruise Critic and the topic is tipping, so this is always where it was going to end up.  It's everyone, not you.  Tipping threads bring out the virtue signalling.  You've not been here that long but if you stick around and see other tipping threads they will go the same way.  Mark my words.

 

What you do and why you do it is nobody's business but your own.