Carnival Corporation has dissolved the Holland America Group...

[Destiny0315]

and has reorganized their brands in a corporate restructuring of the world's largest cruise company.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Carnival-Corp-reorganizes-brands-under-corporate-structure

[Native Floridian 26]

As long as I still get my CCL stockholder OBC, this doesn't impact me.

[OlsSalt]

Cliff note version: Holland and Seabourn now "somewhat partnered", while other CCL brands stay administratively intact. Not bad company to be in.

 

This to me feels like more emphasis on the travel and service part of the cruise equation; perhaps less on the floating resort hotel aspect. Time will tell.

 

Those must have been very interesting discussion and something had to happen - you cannot carry as much "covid" debt as the cruise industry was forced to accept. 

[Banditswife]

Interesting article.

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Cliff note version: Holland and Seabourn now "somewhat partnered", while other CCL brands stay administratively intact. Not bad company to be in.

 

This to me feels like more emphasis on the travel and service part of the cruise equation; perhaps less on the floating resort hotel aspect. Time will tell.

 

Those must have been very interesting discussion and something had to happen - you cannot carry as much "covid" debt as the cruise industry was forced to accept. 

My takeaway also.  Perhaps they will now honor the designation of premium line. 

[TiogaCruiser]

So does this result in less upper management, or more?🤔

[VMax1700]

Strange that CCL have not posted it to their own News Release pages on the website.

[Destiny0315]

1 minute ago, VMax1700 said:

Strange that CCL have not posted it to their own News Release pages on the website.

The article does say it came from an "internal memo".

[Mary229]

If you search “carnival restructures” you will find many articles dating back to 5 days ago 

[BermudaBound2014]

We all remember the rumors that CCL was going to sell off all of Seabourn to the Saudis. If still happening, HAL is now part of that deal? 

 

Of course, just rumor, but there were some meaty discussions on the financial pages that gave me pause.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/carnival-discussions-sell-seabourn-reports-143612828.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall

 

Also, they did sell of the Seabourn Odyssey not too long ago

Edited June 6, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[Destiny0315]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

We all remember the rumors that CCL was going to sell off all of Seabourn to the Saudis. If still happening, HAL is now part of that deal?

If that happens I would expect a lot of golfing shore excursions added.😀

[mowogo]

7 minutes ago, Destiny0315 said:

If that happens I would expect a lot of golfing shore excursions added.😀

In partnership with the PGA Tour

[Mary229]

10 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

We all remember the rumors that CCL was going to sell off all of Seabourn to the Saudis. If still happening, HAL is now part of that deal? 

 

Of course, just rumor, but there were some meaty discussions on the financial pages that gave me pause.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/carnival-discussions-sell-seabourn-reports-143612828.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall

 

Also, they did sell of the Seabourn Odyssey not too long ago

I wonder how Seabourn is doing.  Luxury brands are so clandestine about their balance sheets - they must keep the illusion😉.  Perhaps the ships could be retrofitted with additional cabins to allow for up to 1000 guests which would be a spot HAL guests would pay extra for without expecting butlers and caviar 

[BermudaBound2014]

9 minutes ago, Destiny0315 said:

If that happens I would expect a lot of golfing shore excursions added.😀

 

If that happens, added shore excursions would be the best outcome possible. Of course, the worst would be dissolving HAL entirely.

 

The organization "Cruise Saudi" is no joke. The Saudis are very serious about getting into the cruise business and they have the money. Take a look at some of the port they are building. They have an entire business model to rule the cruising world 🙂 

 

And let us not forget that Saudi sovereign bought over 5% of CCL when they were scrambling for cash.

 

At the risk of sounding like negative Nancy, I won't be placing another dime into my 35 day HAL cruise until the dust settles.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[Destiny0315]

1 hour ago, Native Floridian 26 said:

As long as I still get my CCL stockholder OBC, this doesn't impact me.

The announcement may have helped raise the CCL stock price this week to it's highest close since one year ago in June.

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I wonder how Seabourn is doing.  Luxury brands are so clandestine about their balance sheets - they must keep the illusion😉.  Perhaps the ships could be retrofitted with additional cabins to allow for up to 1000 guests which would be a spot HAL guests would pay extra for without expecting butlers and caviar 

 

All the financial data I've read indicates that luxury brands are going to flourish. The boomers have money to spend.

 

Unfortunately, it appears that CCL isn't all that invested in Seabourn long term, given they sold off one of the ships recently :(. 

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, Destiny0315 said:

The announcement may have helped raise the CCL stock price this week to it's highest close since one year ago in June.

 

Maybe, but all three cruise lines are up this week and of the three, CCL is in last place again.

 

Cruise stock has been trading in unison since the pandemic. RCL had some interesting releases this week too regarding forward looking statements. Let's see what the next week brings. 

 

[Destiny0315]

15 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The organization "Cruise Saudi" is no joke. The Saudis are very serious about getting into the cruise business and they have the money. Take a look at some of the port they are building. They have an entire business model to rule the cruising world 🙂

If they have the organization and $$$$ to build new ports why would they not just have new ships built for them too.🤔

[newtocruiseinblue]

I saw this during my middle of the night perusing and was surprised that this board had not yet gotten wind of it. My first thought was that CCL is streamlining for divestiture. If CCL was going to abandon ship on one of the subsidiaries first, which would it be? Any bets?

 

• Aida, led by president Felix Eichhorn.

• Carnival Cruise Line, led by president Christine Duffy. Underneath CCL is Carnival Australia and P&O Australia, which are both led by president Marguerite Fitzgerald, who will report to Duffy.

• Carnival UK, which includes P&O Cruises (UK) and Cunard. The unit will be led by P&O Cruises president Paul Ludlow. Cunard president Katie McAlister, who begins in August, will report to Ludlow. 

• Costa Cruises, led by president Mario Zanetti.

• Holland America Line, led by president Gus Antorcha, includes Seabourn Cruises. Natalya Leahy, Seabourn's president, will report to Antorcha. 

• Princess Cruises, led by president John Padgett.  

 

I've felt since the pandemic that the Princess brand has the most negative covid publicity associated with it and wondered if they can get past that. I also know they are putting out new ships and that my TA is in love with their product. I was recently targeted on TikTok with an upbeat, youthful ad for Princess. HAL has an aging demographic and the brand is known for an old-world elegance (the world is sadly losing its old world elegance). But I love HAL. My hope is they are streamlining efficiencies and shedding some expensive execs along the way, but my gut tells me this isn't the end of this story. 

[BermudaBound2014]

Something happened to CCL at close today. This will be interesting.

 

[Mary229]

12 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

All the financial data I've read indicates that luxury brands are going to flourish. The boomers have money to spend.

 

Unfortunately, it appears that CCL isn't all that invested in Seabourn long term, given they sold off one of the ships recently :(. 

Some of the retail luxury brands are reporting serious sale declines this quarter.   I don’t know if the cruise lines can afford a non-recession proof asset.  Then again a luxury line would be in the Saudi’s wheelhouse. 

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, newtocruiseinblue said:

I saw this during my middle of the night perusing and was surprised that this board had not yet gotten wind of it. My first thought was that CCL is streamlining for divestiture. If CCL was going to abandon ship on one of the subsidiaries first, which would it be? Any bets?

 

• Aida, led by president Felix Eichhorn.

• Carnival Cruise Line, led by president Christine Duffy. Underneath CCL is Carnival Australia and P&O Australia, which are both led by president Marguerite Fitzgerald, who will report to Duffy.

• Carnival UK, which includes P&O Cruises (UK) and Cunard. The unit will be led by P&O Cruises president Paul Ludlow. Cunard president Katie McAlister, who begins in August, will report to Ludlow. 

• Costa Cruises, led by president Mario Zanetti.

• Holland America Line, led by president Gus Antorcha, includes Seabourn Cruises. Natalya Leahy, Seabourn's president, will report to Antorcha. 

• Princess Cruises, led by president John Padgett.  

 

I've felt since the pandemic that the Princess brand has the most negative covid publicity associated with it and wondered if they can get past that. I also know they are putting out new ships and that my TA is in love with their product. I was recently targeted on TikTok with an upbeat, youthful ad for Princess. HAL has an aging demographic and the brand is known for an old-world elegance (the world is sadly losing its old world elegance). But I love HAL. My hope is they are streamlining efficiencies and shedding some expensive execs along the way, but my gut tells me this isn't the end of this story. 

I think Princess is safe, in the American market it is an icon. 

[mowogo]

1 minute ago, Destiny0315 said:

If they have the organization and $$$$ to build new ports why would they not just have new ships built for them too.🤔

The issue isn’t ships, it is all the infrastructure to run a cruise line and port relationships.  Building up everything from scratch is hard, and while they have the money to launch brand new, that is not the most efficient use of their money.  

[mowogo]

5 minutes ago, newtocruiseinblue said:

I saw this during my middle of the night perusing and was surprised that this board had not yet gotten wind of it. My first thought was that CCL is streamlining for divestiture. If CCL was going to abandon ship on one of the subsidiaries first, which would it be? Any bets?

 

• Aida, led by president Felix Eichhorn.

• Carnival Cruise Line, led by president Christine Duffy. Underneath CCL is Carnival Australia and P&O Australia, which are both led by president Marguerite Fitzgerald, who will report to Duffy.

• Carnival UK, which includes P&O Cruises (UK) and Cunard. The unit will be led by P&O Cruises president Paul Ludlow. Cunard president Katie McAlister, who begins in August, will report to Ludlow. 

• Costa Cruises, led by president Mario Zanetti.

• Holland America Line, led by president Gus Antorcha, includes Seabourn Cruises. Natalya Leahy, Seabourn's president, will report to Antorcha. 

• Princess Cruises, led by president John Padgett.  

 

I've felt since the pandemic that the Princess brand has the most negative covid publicity associated with it and wondered if they can get past that. I also know they are putting out new ships and that my TA is in love with their product. I was recently targeted on TikTok with an upbeat, youthful ad for Princess. HAL has an aging demographic and the brand is known for an old-world elegance (the world is sadly losing its old world elegance). But I love HAL. My hope is they are streamlining efficiencies and shedding some expensive execs along the way, but my gut tells me this isn't the end of this story. 

I think Costa is dead line walking.  The fact that they have been transferring ships to Carnival and seeing how little work they can do to convert them and still make money proves that management has already given up on the line.  

[BermudaBound2014]

5 minutes ago, mowogo said:

The issue isn’t ships, it is all the infrastructure to run a cruise line and port relationships.  Building up everything from scratch is hard, and while they have the money to launch brand new, that is not the most efficient use of their money.  

 

Exactly. Cruise Saudi was launched for the specific purpose of developing the infastructure. They are also in partnership with new builds. And they acquired the brand new World Dream due to Genting bankruptcy. Saudis have the money to do whatever they want 🙂 

 

https://cruise-arabia.com/2023/03/03/saudi-arabia-eyes-massive-cruise-expansion-with-acquisition-of-world-dream-cruise-ship/

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by BermudaBound2014