HAL's Lifeboats

[BobbiSox]

With today's passengers being much heavier than they were years ago, I am curious as to how the lifeboats accommodate the extra weight. Is weight considered the main factor when figuring the capacity? Space would be a factor. The bigger the passenger, the more space would be required. Just wondering how all that works.

[CruiserBruce]

Space would be a key element. Most people only experience the "tender" side of the operation, when capacity is much less than it will be if an evacuation (100 for tender, 150 for lifeboat, typically, for HAL's lifeboat/tenders), and don't know what it will really be like in lifeboat operations.

 

There are a couple of YouTube videos explaining the real situation in lifeboat operations. But to your point, I am reasonably sure the lifeboats are designed with some excess weight capacity. Physical space requirements are a different issue.

[cruisemom42]

I also have been given to understood that on any ship there is excess lifeboat capacity in case of one or more lifeboats not being operational. 

[POA1]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I also have been given to understood that on any ship there is excess lifeboat capacity in case of one or more lifeboats not being operational. 

True. SOLAS lifeboat requirements call for lifeboat capacity to be quite a bit higher than the # of pax & crew. IIRC from my good old outdoor lifeboat drills, HAL exceeds the SOLAS (Safety Of Life At Sea) requirements.

 

More than you want to know about lifeboats here:

 

https://www.shmgroup.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-lifeboats/

[CruiserBruce]

10 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I also have been given to understood that on any ship there is excess lifeboat capacity in case of one or more lifeboats not being operational. 

Definition is important here. Not everyone on board with fit in a "lifeboat". But when you add the inflatable rafts, there should be excess capacity...30 or 40% excess capacity.

[chengkp75]

Lifeboat capacity is based on both weight and volume.  Seating in the boat is allocated as being 16" wide and 25" front (knee) to back (butt).  Each person is considered to weigh 87.5kg (192.5 lbs).  The boat will stay afloat even  if full to capacity and also full of water, so the weight issue isn't critical to the boat.  The lowering gear is rated to 150% of the rated weight of boat and occupants, so that isn't a real problem.  The space is more critical, and to get most people to fit, you need to have one person sitting upright, and the people on either side leaning forward, since most people's shoulders are wider than 16".  I have done practical experiments in loading boats to rated capacity, and it is a challenge.

 

As noted, there is lifesaving capacity of 125% of the total number of souls allowed onboard, but not necessarily lifeboat capacity.  Lifeboat capacity is required to be 70% of all souls onboard, the rest is made up by liferafts and MES (Marine Evacuation System) rafts.  There is to be enough lifeboats and rafts on each side of the ship to take 50% of all souls.

 

 

[colbe]

Thanks for the explanation @chengkp75

Edited July 8, 2023 by colbe

[Mary229]

Having been on jammed pack tenders I have thought about this.  The weight is simpler to account for than the volume.  I also wonder about the size of the hatches compared to the size of some individuals.  I am sure someone some where in the cruise industry must be considering this.  The airlines are struggling with the weights and volumes decisions 

[weix]

Walking around the pinnacle class ships i noticed that out of the 22 live boats only 6 are also used as tenders. They are larger then the live boats by about 24 to 30 square feet . interesting is that all 22 boats are marked at 150 passenger capacity.   hopefully we never have to use them.

 as liveboats.

[PACD_JG]

I've seen the pax on HAL and I've seen Titanic - assuming there would be quite a few folks who follow the Straus' example, making space on the lifeboats moot.  👴👵

[OlsSalt]

1 hour ago, PACD_JG said:

I've seen the pax on HAL and I've seen Titanic - assuming there would be quite a few folks who follow the Straus' example, making space on the lifeboats moot.  👴👵

 

I've seen HAL musters ..................🫣

[CruiserBruce]

And I have seen people reacting to emergent situations in all walks of life (35 years in emergency services)....and it ain't pretty. 

[RuthC]

As a solo cruiser, I always had to pay double fare. I've wondered if that means I paid for two seats on a lifeboat, should the need arise. Fair is fair, after all. 

Hope I never have the opportunity to find out. 

[AllTheSun]

1 hour ago, RuthC said:

As a solo cruiser, I always had to pay double fare. I've wondered if that means I paid for two seats on a lifeboat, should the need arise. Fair is fair, after all. 

Hope I never have the opportunity to find out. 

Hahahaha. On the bright side us solo travelers will only have to worry about squeezing ourselves in a boat. On the downside nobody will be there advocating for us or screaming for us or offering an arm to haul us in… All in all I concur. Best not to find out!

[Copper10-8]

What it looks like inside a HAL life raft btw, is to which the vast majority of the crew are assigned to (pics taken during crew drills, of which there are many, usually at the rear part of a fire/general emergency drill). The rafts are stored inside cannisters/containers. The life rafts are released or launched into the water by three different methods:

 

1. Launching via ship's Davits (the raft is inflated while attached to/ hanging from a davit along the boat deck so the assigned crew can board)

2. Manually launching (the container holding the raft is launched overboard - the painter line is pulled which will fire a gas bottle to inflate the raft - takes 20-30 seconds to inflate fully

3. Auto release with hydrostatic release unit (HRU) - during emergencies, the life raft inflates itself automatically as soon as it comes in contact with seawater

 

Crew/officers will attend a basic safety course prior to their 1st contract (also includes first aid/CPR, general water safety and firefighting onboard a ship) Mine took place in Seattle, WA. The course has to be satisfactory retaken every four-five years while employed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Copper10-8

[Despegue]

We are now doing the wet drills in a wave pool, making it 200 % more realistic and 1000% more challenging, 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Despegue said:

We are now doing the wet drills in a wave pool, making it 200 % more realistic and 1000% more challenging, 

I've had to do "wet drills" both in a pool, and 3 miles offshore of Halifax, NS, in March.  Now that is realistic.

 

The photos that John provided, you will note the capacity of the raft is 35, and there are no where near that inside in the photos.  When fully loaded, there is little room to move about, you are sitting shoulder to shoulder around the perimeter of the raft, with your feet to the middle.

[Despegue]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I've had to do "wet drills" both in a pool, and 3 miles offshore of Halifax, NS, in March.  Now that is realistic.

 

The photos that John provided, you will note the capacity of the raft is 35, and there are no where near that inside in the photos.  When fully loaded, there is little room to move about, you are sitting shoulder to shoulder around the perimeter of the raft, with your feet to the middle.

Yep, nothing beats the actual Ocean conditions. 
at Maritime Academy, we once “volunteered” to spend 24h. On a liferaft in February on the North Sea. I  sincerely hope that I will never have to experience that again 😉 especially as  my nickname was “puke”  😱🙃

Edited July 9, 2023 by Despegue
Added info

[Mary229]

@Copper10-8  just curious.  The fires simulation is staged to be in the engine room?   
 

@Copper10-8and @chengkp75  would you comment on this fire panel story. 
 

https://cruiseradio.net/fire-hazard-delay-cruise-ship-delivery-impacted/

[CruiserBruce]

@Mary229, it looks like the fire pics are taken in a fire training building. Too "clean" a burn (looks like flashover training going on)...in other words, not enough smoke.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

@Copper10-8  just curious.  The fires simulation is staged to be in the engine room?   
 

@Copper10-8and @chengkp75  would you comment on this fire panel story. 
 

https://cruiseradio.net/fire-hazard-delay-cruise-ship-delivery-impacted/

I wouldn't worry too much about this.  There is no indication as to why the supplier lost their certification, whether something changed that caused the material to fail certification over older panels, or whether older panels would meet certification.  Also, unknown is whether the certification has changed.  There is also no indication of how the material has failed to meet the requirements, and by how much.  To say that the panel certification was for 5 years, doesn't mean that older panels need to be "re-certified", but that the manufacturer needs to be recertified.  You don't tear out cabin walls every 5 years.

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

@Mary229, it looks like the fire pics are taken in a fire training building. Too "clean" a burn (looks like flashover training going on)...in other words, not enough smoke.

Yes, that would be a fire training facility, where they pump in diesel or natural gas to create the fire.

[CruiserBruce]

29 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Yes, that would be a fire training facility, where they pump in diesel or natural gas to create the fire.

Still use diesel? Usually natural gas is used because it burns cleaner.

[chengkp75]

Just now, CruiserBruce said:

Still use diesel? Usually natural gas is used because it burns cleaner.

Yes, usually in pans, 8-10" deep, so you train on fighting class B fires.  Need to learn various techniques, like bouncing it off the overhead, or using foam applicators on hoses to bounce off the walls to coat the diesel.  I've had to fight a diesel pan fire in an x-shaped pan, with just a dry chemical extinguisher.

[CruiserBruce]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, usually in pans, 8-10" deep, so you train on fighting class B fires.  Need to learn various techniques, like bouncing it off the overhead, or using foam applicators on hoses to bounce off the walls to coat the diesel.  I've had to fight a diesel pan fire in an x-shaped pan, with just a dry chemical extinguisher.

Gotcha. We use gasoline for B fires in a pan with fire extinguishers. One of the key points is how little dry chem it takes to extinguish a fire.

[Mary229]

@CruiserBruce @chengkp75  yes, I understand that it is in a fire building but do you know which room of the ship they are attempting to simulate 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Mary229