Why Ensenada?

[Toofarfromthesea]

I'm booked for a Hawiian cruise in a few months.  It is 5 sea days, 5 days sailing around Hawaii with port stops, and  5 sea days heading back.  And then one day in Ensenada.  As I (perhaps imperfectly) understood it, since this cruise starts and ends in the same US port a foreign port is not required.  Is that right?  And if so, why would they have that stop in Ensenada?  Anyone know, or care to speculate?

[crzndeb]

12 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I'm booked for a Hawiian cruise in a few months.  It is 5 sea days, 5 days sailing around Hawaii with port stops, and  5 sea days heading back.  And then one day in Ensenada.  As I (perhaps imperfectly) understood it, since this cruise starts and ends in the same US port a foreign port is not required.  Is that right?  And if so, why would they have that stop in Ensenada?  Anyone know, or care to speculate?

Since it’s a RT, only a foreign port stop is needed, hence Ensenada.  It is going from one US city to a different US city, even though it’s a RT. That’s why a foreign stop is needed.

Edited August 29, 2023 by crzndeb

[Toofarfromthesea]

Just now, crzndeb said:

Since it’s a RT, only a foreign port stop is needed, hence Ensenada.

 

Got it.  So my understanding of the rule was imperfect.  Thanks.

[crzndeb]

1 minute ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Got it.  So my understanding of the rule was imperfect.  Thanks.

I added a little to my reply…it was a little confusing…LOL

[njhorseman]

6 minutes ago, crzndeb said:

Since it’s a RT, only a foreign port stop is needed, hence Ensenada.  It is going from one US city to a different US city, even though it’s a RT. That’s why a foreign stop is needed.

No, it's returning to the same US city per the OP. Hence the need for a call at any foreign port.

If the cruise were returning to a different US port the stop in Ensenada would not make it a legal cruise. It would require a port call at what is called a distant foreign port. No port in Mexico, Canada nor most Caribbean ports qualify as a distant foreign port. 

[CruiserBruce]

@njhorseman got the key point...the word distant. If you are sailing roundtrip out of a US port, a foreign port stop is required, so Ensenada for your Hawaii cruise, Victoria (commonly) for roundtrips out of Seattle. If you are sailing from one US port to another US port, a stop at a distant foreign port is required. The closest distant foreign ports are Cartagena, Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao, for the standard one way Panama Canal cruises.

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

@njhorseman got the key point...the word distant. If you are sailing roundtrip out of a US port, a foreign port stop is required, so Ensenada for your Hawaii cruise, Victoria (commonly) for roundtrips out of Seattle. If you are sailing from one US port to another US port, a stop at a distant foreign port is required. The closest distant foreign ports are Cartagena, Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao, for the standard one way Panama Canal cruises.

And for example if a cruise started in San Francisco, went to Hawaii, and ended in Seattle,  the closest distant foreign port is Fanning Island. 

[CruiserBruce]

2 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

And for example if a cruise started in San Francisco, went to Hawaii, and ended in Seattle,  the closest distant foreign port is Fanning Island. 

As I recall, Fanning Island is a day plus sailing each way from the Islands, and extremely little to do there. Probably why the route you mention is extremely rare, if at all, used.

[crzndeb]

2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

No, it's returning to the same US city per the OP. Hence the need for a call at any foreign port.

If the cruise were returning to a different US port the stop in Ensenada would not make it a legal cruise. It would require a port call at what is called a distant foreign port. No port in Mexico, Canada nor most Caribbean ports qualify as a distant foreign port. 

Yeah, I know the rules, I just didn’t explain it very well. 😉

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

As I recall, Fanning Island is a day plus sailing each way from the Islands, and extremely little to do there. Probably why the route you mention is extremely rare, if at all, used.

When it comes to having “…extremely little to do…”, Ensenada is also in the running. If it were not for the PVSA, you would not hear about it.

[CruiserBruce]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

When it comes to having “…extremely little to do…”, Ensenada is also in the running. If it were not for the PVSA, you would not hear about it.

Not true...there are at least 10 or a dozen shore excursions there. I doubt Fanning Island can support any shore excursions.

[navybankerteacher]

5 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Not true...there are at least 10 or a dozen shore excursions there. I doubt Fanning Island can support any shore excursions.

Cruise lines will provide shore excursions to anywhere - as I recall,  most port calls there were just long enough to say hello and good bye.

 

It’s primary function is to provide the required “foreign port” for three day cruises out of California — sort of the Pacific Ocean’s version of Nassau for comparable deals out of Miami.

Edited August 30, 2023 by navybankerteacher

[CruiserBruce]

2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Cruise lines will provide shore excursions to anywhere - as I recall,  most port calls there were just long enough to say hello and good bye.

I think NCL did some sort of beach BBQ. That was it.

[njhorseman]

54 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

I think NCL did some sort of beach BBQ. That was it.

That's also my understanding.

[Zach1213]

17 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

When it comes to having “…extremely little to do…”, Ensenada is also in the running. If it were not for the PVSA, you would not hear about it.

I'm guessing Ensenada also offers fairly cheap port fees and the cruise lines can make a decent margin off of the excursions. 

[Heidi13]

21 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

I'm guessing Ensenada also offers fairly cheap port fees and the cruise lines can make a decent margin off of the excursions. 

 

Interesting points, but I'll suggest that Ensenada has no incentive to offer cheaper than normal port fees. If the cruise lines wish to operate R/T cruises to Hawaii, they have really no other viable option other than Ensenada, so the port could easily increase normal rates.

[Haljo1935]

I believe I may be on the same cruise as OP. What was to be a full day in Ensenada has been revised to 7p - midnight. While they may be added as sailing gets closer, there are no excursions currently being offered; no margins to be made.

The stop is clearly to satisfy the foreign stop of a closed loop cruise and passenger experience does not appear to be a consideration. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Haljo1935
Typo

[Heidi13]

11 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

I believe I may be on the same cruise as OP. What was to be a full day in Ensenada has been revised to 7p - midnight. While they may be added as sailing gets closer, there are no excursions currently being offered; no margins to be made.

The stop is clearly to satisfy the foreign stop of a closed loop cruise and passenger experience does not appear to be a consideration. 

 

 

Best guess as to the reason would be allowing an additional 12 hrs of steaming time, which will provide reasonable bunker savings, with the reduction in speed.

 

As you mentioned, I expect shore-ex will be added later and they probably don't anticipate much shore-ex revenue loss. They also get additional bars and casino revenue at sea.

 

Definitely agree that the pax experience is secondary to the bottom line.

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

 

Definitely agree that the pax experience is secondary to the bottom line.

The bottom line is the ONLY reason they sail in the first place, or think of the pax experience at all.