Question about gratuities...

[HaveDogWillTravel]

6 hours ago, dog said:

And who is getting bonuses, NOW

on Princess ships?  
 

This is something I have a good idea about but I do not have enough evidence yet to support it. And I’m not sure it really matters to me. 

[FlightCrew777]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:50 AM, HaveDogWillTravel said:

I have sailed with some of the same crew for well over 100 days in the last two years. We’ve gotten to know each other and have had many hours of conversations and experiences together on board the ship and off it.  I have finally had this confirmed to my satisfaction.  Crew are now on a fixed salary. They no longer get any additional amount from the auto gratuities monthly.  If gratuities  are removed it will in no way affect any crew member’s compensation.  Princess is really pushing the packages that include the gratuities as they use them to pay salaries that are fixed. 
 

What annoys me is that passengers are under the mistaken idea that the crew are receiving something extra when they do not. 
 

For me I like to bring the less mainstream white wines on board that I prefer and I will do that if I have a package or if I do not have a package. When I add up the costs it’s about $200 per week for me :  pre order cases of water -$7 per dozen (I drink 6 bottles a day) -thru princess, use my elite benefits to get a very reasonable $7.50 pd internet connection, pay $15 one time fee for ocean now, one specialty dining a week, a couple of casual dinings per week  & 2-3 manhattans a week….it makes no sense to buy a package. Additionally, I get more dining outside of MDR than Plus would give on two week or longer sailings. I have the gratuities removed & I use the same amount of cash (as the auto grats were) or more if warranted  to tip the crew who are on the ship that made my current sailing special. And YES it has been very well documented that crew get to keep all cash tips since the restart. 

Of course if you sail those 5-7 day short cruises the math changes a bit. 
 

Crew are discouraged from discussing their compensation so please be discrete if you want to inquire while on board. However, any and all crew will happily tell you cash tips may be kept so feel free to ask about that to confirm for yourself. 
 

 

WOW! Informative and very interesting post. Thanks for posting. 

[Tedferg]

Very informative, thanks. Apologies if I am misreading this.

It makes sense that salaries are fixed and depend on the overall fleetwide pool. Therefore removing tips would not affect an individuals pay. This seems to support the idea that removing CA and tipping individually does reward those who affect your own experience - or am I confused.

 

BTW it has never occurred to me to remove CA.

[KLM3164]

Very interesting and thought provoking thread. It’s given me something to think about. Thank you @HaveDogWillTravel for sharing what you have learned. There an are handful of people I follow and respect on CC and you are on the list. You’ve given me something to ponder and consider on our upcoming cruise where we don’t have a package on one of our legs. I do have to say I feel a little misled by Princess in believing that the gratuities are just that…..tips for the exceptional service we receive…..as opposed to regular salary for the crew. 

[leck57]

5 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

The money is pooled across the fleet & is used to pay staff their base salary. So yes it goes to the staff. It just isn’t given as an extra amount outside of the base.
 

 

 

So it really shouldn't be called Crew Appreciation, it should called Staff Wages as that is what it is. Don't see why I should pay the staff's wages. They should stop playing this game and just bake it in to all fares as it would be more transparent than what most people believe CA is used for now when they pay it.

[40yearcruiser]

Thanks for the information on how the "Crew Appreciation" is being used. Very thought provoking. We have never removed the autotips but may consider it and try the individual tipping, which we always did when we started cruising almost 50 years ago. We don't do the Plus package so this is an option for us. 

[dog]

1 hour ago, leck57 said:

 

So it really shouldn't be called Crew Appreciation, it should called Staff Wages as that is what it is. Don't see why I should pay the staff's wages. They should stop playing this game and just bake it in to all fares as it would be more transparent than what most people believe CA is used for now when they pay it.

I felt “duped” when they said it was distributed “fleetwide.”

 

I will be visiting GS to get answers from them on my next cruise.

 

I’ve also read an article that said Captain gets paid quite well and get bonuses for leaving port on time. Delays can cost $$$$.

[memoak]

39 minutes ago, 40yearcruiser said:

Thanks for the information on how the "Crew Appreciation" is being used. Very thought provoking. We have never removed the autotips but may consider it and try the individual tipping, which we always did when we started cruising almost 50 years ago. We don't do the Plus package so this is an option for us. 

Unless you are prepared to tip everyone in the buffet who gets you a drink or every server in every restaurant and everyone at guest services you does something good for you then you are stiffing lots and lots of employees. There are rayons of people you may never see who make your cruise better are you prepared to just start handing out tips as you walk down the halls ?

[Lady Arwen]

21 minutes ago, memoak said:

Unless you are prepared to tip everyone in the buffet who gets you a drink or every server in every restaurant and everyone at guest services you does something good for you then you are stiffing lots and lots of employees. There are rayons of people you may never see who make your cruise better are you prepared to just start handing out tips as you walk down the halls ?

Perfectly said!  As I’ve said so many times before the crew and the cruiselines have a contract that was willingly and freely signed by both parties.  If the crew is happy with the contract and the terms of their employment then why are we getting in their business?  Pay the auto CA and tip extra, or not, at your discretion.  Let them figure out who gets what and when.

 

[BamaVol]

3 hours ago, leck57 said:

 

So it really shouldn't be called Crew Appreciation, it should called Staff Wages as that is what it is. Don't see why I should pay the staff's wages. They should stop playing this game and just bake it in to all fares as it would be more transparent than what most people believe CA is used for now when they pay it.

Semantics.  Princess pays the staff wages.  You give Princess the means to pay staff wages by paying CA (or Plus/Premier).  This is how cruise pricing is structured. Stop paying CA and all you are doing is hastening the failure of CCL.

 

The game will continue to be played because baking the wages into base fares scares away too many passengers lured in by artificially low base fares, it’s the same reason we pay tips to restaurant servers.  If all the menu prices rose by 20% overnight, some would stop dining out even though the bottom line hasn’t changed.

Edited November 7, 2023 by BamaVol

[leck57]

44 minutes ago, BamaVol said:

Semantics.  Princess pays the staff wages.  You give Princess the means to pay staff wages by paying CA (or Plus/Premier).  This is how cruise pricing is structured. Stop paying CA and all you are doing is hastening the failure of CCL.

 

The game will continue to be played because baking the wages into base fares scares away too many passengers lured in by artificially low base fares, it’s the same reason we pay tips to restaurant servers.  If all the menu prices rose by 20% overnight, some would stop dining out even though the bottom line hasn’t changed.

 

Hmmm. Just to clarify, again, our Plus and Premier packages DO NOT include crew appreciation. We either have the prepay option or they are just added to our onboard account as they always have been. No change for us. I know you are likely correct in the way Princess' bottom line is determined but it doesn't sit well with me the my CA payments are just paying the crew basic wages.

An alternative line of thinking could be that Princess just bake the CA into all fares and start a marketing campaign that all cruises are gratuity free and di away with this bs. My next cruise for example is 22 days and if they added the roughly $450 pp gratuities into the cost I wouldn't really notice. My fare cost is about $8000 per person so would another $500 deter me. Probably not.

[Waynetor]

A downside of baking service fee into the fare is higher insurance cost.  Also if you did a late cancel of a cruise without insurance then that would be a higher loss which you would not currently have unless you have a package as part of your fare, 

[leck57]

1 hour ago, Waynetor said:

A downside of baking service fee into the fare is higher insurance cost.  Also if you did a late cancel of a cruise without insurance then that would be a higher loss which you would not currently have unless you have a package as part of your fare, 

 

I would think the insurance increase would be minimal. Yes, it is a downside but I would have thought, only minor when you consider the overall cost.

Then again, I often read where people have paid thousands for a cruise and write pages about a $10 increase.

[startedwithamouse]

11 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

The money is pooled across the fleet & is used to pay staff their base salary. So yes it goes to the staff. It just isn’t given as an extra amount outside of the base.
 

Again just want to make sure I am clear in what I’ve shared. I think what anyone chooses to do with this information is entirely up them and personal. 

 

A little jet lagged as we got off 26 days on Majestic a couple days ago. 

 

You are exactly right about the fleetwide part. They see their salary. 

 

We learned a lot on this cruise. 

 

We usually sail with Plus, but sailed with standard this time and chose to eat and the majority of our drinking in the ports visited.

 

We removed our so called crew appreciation. We took that amount, rounded up, and tipped in cash and gave to crew who made a difference. 

 

We would never have done this previously, but our crew appreciation isn't going to entertainment on a ship we're not sailing on. You can also bet that crew appreciation or bonus pool. Or whatever Princess is calling it, is earning Carnival a lot of money. 

 

 

[Greytgrey]

15 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

I am a standard cruiser and no matter how many times I put the pencil to it, a Plus or Premier package does not make financial sense to me.  That being said, I would never remove the basic tips. 

I'm with you on all of this. 
We're taking a 7-night cruise in February and the Plus package would nearly double the cost of the cruise (we got a really great deal!). 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

5 hours ago, memoak said:

Unless you are prepared to tip everyone in the buffet who gets you a drink or every server in every restaurant and everyone at guest services you does something good for you then you are stiffing lots and lots of employees. There are rayons of people you may never see who make your cruise better are you prepared to just start handing out tips as you walk down the halls ?

No crew members salary changes if CA are removed.  I think you’ve been around long enough perhaps to have close relationships with crew who would feel comfortable discreetly discussing this with you privately?  Get your own corroborating evidence if you need it. 
It’s not my place or yours to tell folks how to react to this information. Each persons’ reaction is private and theirs to have. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by HaveDogWillTravel

[HaveDogWillTravel]

47 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

You are exactly right about the fleetwide part. They see their salary. 

Thanks for corroborating this. 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

48 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

You can also bet that crew appreciation or bonus pool. Or whatever Princess is calling it, is earning Carnival a lot of money. 

 

Hmmmmmm.  Interesting 

[Tedferg]

17 hours ago, memoak said:

Unless you are prepared to tip everyone in the buffet who gets you a drink or every server in every restaurant and everyone at guest services you does something good for you then you are stiffing lots and lots of employees. There are rayons of people you may never see who make your cruise better are you prepared to just start handing out tips as you walk down the halls ?

This is purely for conversation, because I agree with you. However, if salaries are predetermined then they are not affected if a person removes CA and if that person tips an amount similar to CA to specific people, they are targeting rewards, not saving money. The 'behind the scenes' employees are not stiffed.

[startedwithamouse]

12 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Hmmmmmm.  Interesting 

Meaning it may eventually work it's way to compensation for crew, their principal amount allows Princess to earn A LOT in their portfolio. 

[ldubs]

10 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

This is purely for conversation, because I agree with you. However, if salaries are predetermined then they are not affected if a person removes CA and if that person tips an amount similar to CA to specific people, they are targeting rewards, not saving money. The 'behind the scenes' employees are not stiffed.

 

I think the premise that the salaries are predetermined and fixed is incorrect.  If grats are paid out as bonus', incentive pay, or even as part of salaries, then clearly a decrease in grats will have an impact.  To say otherwise seems to be just a way to justify pulling the grats since doing so would have no negative impact on staff.      

Edited November 7, 2023 by ldubs

[memoak]

13 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

This is purely for conversation, because I agree with you. However, if salaries are predetermined then they are not affected if a person removes CA and if that person tips an amount similar to CA to specific people, they are targeting rewards, not saving money. The 'behind the scenes' employees are not stiffed.

I think the concept that CA does not go to crew is a misconception pushed by people who don’t want to pay tips since so many say they will tip who they want but not as much as the CA is

[Lady Arwen]

2 minutes ago, memoak said:

I think the concept that CA does not go to crew is a misconception pushed by people who don’t want to pay tips since so many say they will tip who they want but not as much as the CA is

Nailed it!

[dog]

12 minutes ago, memoak said:

I think the concept that CA does not go to crew is a misconception pushed by people who don’t want to pay tips since so many say they will tip who they want but not as much as the CA is

Do you have proof of this? If so, please direct us to it.

 

I have personally been told by 3 crew now that HaveDog is correct.

CA does go to crew as part of their salary. Not extra as tips or gratuity.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by dog

[memoak]

15 minutes ago, dog said:

Do you have proof of this? If so, please direct us to it.

 

I have personally been told by 3 crew now that HaveDog is correct.

CA does go to crew as part of their salary. Not extra as tips or gratuity.

 

If the CA goes to the crew and you remove CA then you are taking money from crew it doesn’t matter if you call it salary or tips. That is all semantics   And yes I have many friends who work on ships who have told me that if enough people remove CA then it affects there total compensation 

Edited November 7, 2023 by memoak