Federal Court ruling re Ruby Princess

[OzKiwiJJ]

10 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

Lots of mistakes were made by all concerned, it is such a shame that people are always looking for a scapegoat to blame and pay the recompense 

It certainly is, and it doesn't help that a certain company of lawyers dangles dreams of massive compensation in front of those people. Plus those same people are often those who take no responsibility for their own actions.

[Gwendy]

We were temperature scanned at the airport when we returned from Norfolk Island on February 4, so some precautions were in place.

As a side note in 2009 on World Cruise we were temperature scanned in Apia because of bird flu.  The people doing scanning wore thongs and only changed the ear piece of the scanner when I requested it.  They just used the same earpiece for everyone.  Lol

[christodan]

11 hours ago, Relaxing Robbies said:

Not sure about 8th March, but we were definitely temperature checked before embarking CarnivalSpirit on 14th March in Melbourne.  My son initially registered high by the scanner and had to undergo further temperature checking before being allowed to board.

Yes but the pandemic wasn't declared until March 11 by WHO so IMO it was perfectly reasonable to not be checking until then. I can't see how Carnival was negligent before a pandemic was declared. If anything WHO was negligent.

[arxcards]

2 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

It certainly is, and it doesn't help that a certain company of lawyers dangles dreams of massive compensation in front of those people. Plus those same people are often those who take no responsibility for their own actions.

It isn't just about the money, but also about finding the truth. I would also be cynical about the whole process, but there are people that just wanted answers for the loss of a partner or family member.

[christodan]

1 hour ago, arxcards said:

It isn't just about the money, but also about finding the truth. I would also be cynical about the whole process, but there are people that just wanted answers for the loss of a partner or family member.

And literally millions of people have died from COVID, including a relative of mine. So the answer is, this is what a pandemic means and no one deliberately set out to spread it or kill others. We are not talking about some malpractice here, but a worldwide pandemic. What do people expect?

[Sallyandtex]

19 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Was any organization doing temperature checks that early on in the pandemic? Certainly they became common eventually but I don't think it was when that cruise departed.

Those 'gun style' devices are very in-accurate also, especially when waved around in the air like they were doing at some venues, by un-trained staff. 

[BRANDEE]

On 10/26/2023 at 11:39 PM, Vader1111 said:

Princess' problem was that they weren't doing everything they possibly could, to keep the passengers safe.  For example, they weren't doing temperature checks at embarkation - at a time when high temperature was known to be a COVID symptom.

 

That's not to detract from the actions of the passengers themselves, and you are quite correct in your statements about them... but to say that Princess was doing everything possible is just flat wrong.

The NSWHealth Department did not do their job.  Where were they to check passengers going on the cruise. (I  was notified by e mail that I would be checked by health officials at the airport and prior boarding.) and where were they at disembarkation?    (Princess notified guests that they expected NSWH to come on board in am so do not get early flights home)  Nowhere to be seen.  Inept and derelict of their duties and their own newly established covid policies.   Eight hours at the Sydney airport to go home and no one checked passengers.  So why is Carnival only held responsible?.  What about Celebrity and RCCL..their ships also had covid cases after returning.   Why only Carnival...guess the Australian judges just needed someone  to blame so no one would remember the "mock" special commission that found the NSWH guilty of dereliction of duties but only slapped them on the wrist..no consequences for their actions. I want to sue them!! And why did the Australian judges refuse American passengers to join the lawsuit if they wanted? 

.

Quite honestly this case should have been thrown out of court. Never allowed. Carnival is a business that sold a product and people bought it.  BTW Carnival/Princess refunded every penny for cruise, even though 11 out of 13 days were completed.

 

No one held a gun to the head of any adult who walked up the gangplank and got on the cruise ship. Adults made a decision to go and they should accept their responsibility.  Just like NSWHealth should be held responsible for abandoning their post at a time(s) when they should have been protecting the people.   Australians as well as foreign passengers.

[valantine80]

We were on Majestic Princess which left Sydney about 11th February on 10night cruise to Perth via Melbourne and Adelaide and then continuing on to Singapore. Before we even got to Adelaide they had cancelled the remainder of the voyage from Perth so that was well before the Ruby Princess embarked in Sydney.

[MicCanberra]

5 hours ago, arxcards said:

It isn't just about the money, but also about finding the truth. I would also be cynical about the whole process, but there are people that just wanted answers for the loss of a partner or family member.

If I want the truth, I certainly would go to a lawyer to find it.

[MicCanberra]

32 minutes ago, valantine80 said:

We were on Majestic Princess which left Sydney about 11th February on 10night cruise to Perth via Melbourne and Adelaide and then continuing on to Singapore. Before we even got to Adelaide they had cancelled the remainder of the voyage from Perth so that was well before the Ruby Princess embarked in Sydney.

On that same cruise, we were notified just the night before docking in Melbourne that the cruise would end in Perth instead of Singapore. Passengers then had the option to debark in Melbourne, Adelaide or Perth, we chose Adelaide as we had friends there to visit and flights were better for us. Yes there was Covid around and also aboard the Majestic but it was being handled appropriately and most passengers were doing the right thing to protect both themselves and others.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Just now, BRANDEE said:

The NSWHealth Department did not do their job.  Where were they to check passengers going on the cruise. (I  was notified by e mail that I would be checked by health officials at the airport and prior boarding.) and where were they at disembarkation?    (Princess notified guests that they expected NSWH to come on board in am so do not get early flights home)  Nowhere to be seen.  Inept and derelict of their duties and their own newly established covid policies.   Eight hours at the Sydney airport to go home and no one checked passengers.  So why is Carnival only held responsible?.  What about Celebrity and RCCL..their ships also had covid cases after returning.   Why only Carnival...guess the Australian judges just needed someone  to blame so no one would remember the "mock" special commission that found the NSWH guilty of dereliction of duties but only slapped them on the wrist..no consequences for their actions. I want to sue them!! And why did the Australian judges refuse American passengers to join the lawsuit if they wanted? 

.

Quite honestly this case should have been thrown out of court. Never allowed. Carnival is a business that sold a product and people bought it.  BTW Carnival/Princess refunded every penny for cruise, even though 11 out of 13 days were completed.

 

No one held a gun to the head of any adult who walked up the gangplank and got on the cruise ship. Adults made a decision to go and they should accept their responsibility.  Just like NSWHealth should be held responsible for abandoning their post at a time(s) when they should have been protecting the people.   Australians as well as foreign passengers.

Shine Lawyers have been trying to nail something on Carnival for years. It's almost a vendetta on their part. I agree, it should have been thrown out of court. 

[MicCanberra]

5 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Shine Lawyers have been trying to nail something on Carnival for years. It's almost a vendetta on their part. I agree, it should have been thrown out of court. 

It is easy money for them, the class action may have not paid out for the plaintiff's but they wouldn't have missed out.

[NSWP]

26 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

It is easy money for them, the class action may have not paid out for the plaintiff's but they wouldn't have missed out.

Lawyers never lose $.

[arxcards]

8 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

If I want the truth, I certainly would go to a lawyer to find it.

Not a lawyer, but a court of law is meant to out the truth.

[MicCanberra]

7 hours ago, arxcards said:

Not a lawyer, but a court of law is meant to out the truth.

I partly agree, the truth should come out but generally the court applies the law, not necessarily what is fair, justice or the truth.

[Mareblu]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:07 AM, Gwendy said:

We were temperature scanned at the airport when we returned from Norfolk Island on February 4, so some precautions were in place.

As a side note in 2009 on World Cruise we were temperature scanned in Apia because of bird flu.  The people doing scanning wore thongs and only changed the ear piece of the scanner when I requested it.  They just used the same earpiece for everyone.  Lol

😳

[arxcards]

4 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

I partly agree, the truth should come out but generally the court applies the law, not necessarily what is fair, justice or the truth.

Correct. As they say, the law is an ass, but it is all we have. If Princess/CA had done nothing wrong in the eyes of the relevant laws, it wouldn't have even made it into court. If the finding was so wrong I would expect there are grounds for appeal.

 

I do find it amusing that part was a consumer claim against their trademark promise "Our promise is to provide guests transformative moments designed to inspire them to discover the world and themselves, ultimately allowing us to declare that a cruise isn't good enough unless you 'come back new.'" . 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/princess-cruises-announces-the-come-back-new-promise-300209988.html 

They didn't think they "Came Back New" It seems that trademark has now disappeared from their site. Other major Australian companies have removed the word "promise" from their consumer guarantees.

[MicCanberra]

Well it depends on the interpretation of what new is. Coming back with Covid at that time was relatively new. 

[arxcards]

44 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Well it depends on the interpretation of what new is. Coming back with Covid at that time was relatively new. 

Worth arguing to those curly wig guys. A Novel virus would meet the promise of coming back with new, but when it scored an official name it was no longer a novel virus.

[MicCanberra]

1 hour ago, arxcards said:

Worth arguing to those curly wig guys. A Novel virus would meet the promise of coming back with new, but when it scored an official name it was no longer a novel virus.

True, and it is not the sort of new thing that sells cruises.

[lyndarra]

13 hours ago, arxcards said:

Worth arguing to those curly wig guys. A Novel virus would meet the promise of coming back with new, but when it scored an official name it was no longer a novel virus.

It was a novel virus to authors writing a lot of fiction about it.🤪

[BRANDEE]

18 hours ago, arxcards said:

Correct. As they say, the law is an ass, but it is all we have. If Princess/CA had done nothing wrong in the eyes of the relevant laws, it wouldn't have even made it into court. If the finding was so wrong I would expect there are grounds for appeal.

 

I do find it amusing that part was a consumer claim against their trademark promise "Our promise is to provide guests transformative moments designed to inspire them to discover the world and themselves, ultimately allowing us to declare that a cruise isn't good enough unless you 'come back new.'" . 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/princess-cruises-announces-the-come-back-new-promise-300209988.html 

They didn't think they "Came Back New" It seems that trademark has now disappeared from their site. Other major Australian companies have removed the word "promise" from their consumer guarantees.

I disagree that Carnival was guilty.  The Australian judges used their interpretation of the law to find a scapegoat to take the pressure and limelight off the inept NSWHealth Agency. One government branch covering up another's guilt. 

Regarding an appeal.  I'm sure Carnival wants to get out of Australian before the judges come up with another bogus ruling.

[Mareblu]

55 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

I disagree that Carnival was guilty.  The Australian judges used their interpretation of the law to find a scapegoat to take the pressure and limelight off the inept NSWHealth Agency. One government branch covering up another's guilt. 

Regarding an appeal.  I'm sure Carnival wants to get out of Australian before the judges come up with another bogus ruling.

In Australia, the judiciary is independent of the legislature and the executive.   Westminster system.

[lyndarra]

12 minutes ago, Mareblu said:

In Australia, the judiciary is independent of the legislature and the executive.   Westminster system.

Our federal judges are appointed, on comission, by our Governor General, representing our head of state i.e. HM King Charles lll. They can only be removed by the GG and must retire at age 70.

[Vader1111]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:06 PM, OzKiwiJJ said:

Was any organization doing temperature checks that early on in the pandemic? Certainly they became common eventually but I don't think it was when that cruise departed.

I was temperature checked repeatedly, as I passed through Changi Airport in Singapore, in mid-early February.

 

Whilst we obviously know a hell of a lot more about COVID now, than we did back then, one thing that was known was that a high temperature was one symptom which could be checked relatively easily.  Royal were definitely doing temperature checks, when I went to the OPT in mid-March, for the Radiance cruise to NZ which never left the dock.

 

The courts quite rightly ruled that there was negligence from both the passengers, and the cruise line.  The passengers knew that COVID was around, and the reputation of cruise ships as big white virus incubators has been around for decades.  However, the cruise lines also needed to be doing everything they could, given the information available at the time, to keep their passengers safe.  The judge found, also quite rightly, that Princess did not.